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5 day layover in Frankfurt - Accessible Ski Destinations?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I was able to secure a 5 day layover on the way back from work travel, 26/1 to 31/1 (Tuesday to Sunday). Unfortunately, the only layover destination available was in Frankfurt, which seems to be several hours from any good snow.

Looking for some suggestions on destinations and itineraries. Right now I'm thinking either Chamonix (fly to either Lyon or Geneva), St. Anton, or Innsbruck but I haven't looked too specifically at travel arrangements.

Few considerations:

    Logistics: I fly into Frankfurt the morning of 26/1 and out morning of 31/1. Ideally, I'd ride 27th-28th, urban explore 29th and 30th, and get back to Frankfurt by morning of 31st and fly out in afternoon. Ideal is resort within a 2-3 hour from a major metro, or a resort I can pass through a major city on my way to/from Frankfurt. However if the good stuff is out of the way, I'm willing to say screw it and commit the entire 5 days to riding.

    I'd prefer to train but am open to flying and driving. I'd prefer to stay in the Euro zone (i.e. not Switzerland) since the US dollar is much stronger against the Euro than the Swiss Franc.

    Big mountains and off-piste are my primary concern. Some of those legendary miles-long run on groomers are also interesting to me. I typically ride Tahoe, have ridden PNW, Mammoth, UT, CO, and have even had the pleasure of Alaskan heliskiing. I'd like to experience something unique to Europe, something I've never experienced and can't get within a few hour flight of home.

    Night scene would be a nice bonus, but riding takes priority.

    Based on conditions, I wonder if hunting snow makes sense at all. Seems like the Alps are having a historically bad season and I might be better served saving money for a Whistler or Utah trip.


Thanks for your help and recommendations!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Frankfurt is somewhat out of the way for skiing!
I'd say your closest decent skiing would be in Switzerland around Interlaken ( Wengen or Grindelwald ) or Engelberg, which both look to be about 4h30 drive. Cham is at least 6 hours, Innsbruck also around 6 hours.
Snow is supposed to be arriving at start of Jan, so I would just wait and see where the conditions are good. You are unlikely to have problems finding accomodation during January, so if you have a car you could just drive over and see what's free.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Have a look into flights to Salzburg.
Accommodation shouldn't be much of a problem at that time of year.
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You could consider hiring a car. I just drove from Tignes to Frankfurt in 7,5 hours... and Tignes is very far out of the way from anything.

Of course, there are plenty of high speed train options from Frankfurt, and Innsbruck would be a good landing point to access several good places of skiing.

You could optimize this by taking a night train....
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Big mountains with something unique to Europe...St Anton or Ischgl...great off-piste & on-piste possibilities and crazy Austrian party apres. Drive from Frankfurt or fly to Innsbruck and pick up a car there. I'm sure St Anton can be done by train too, check out Deutsche Bahn. Ischgl by train to Landeck, then bus up the valley.
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If you arrive on the morning of the 26th, you will easily be able to get to an Austrian ski resort by nightfall by whichever method...train, car or plane+car. Then 3 days riding. On the 30th, you can leave the resort and stop off in Innsbruck for your city sighteseeing fix, other sightseeing options if driving would be big city Munich or Stuttgart with its museums, or for a picturesque option the Neuschwanstein Castle near Fussen in Bavaria or the picture-postcard town of Rothenburg ob der Tauber would be good on the way back to Frankfurt by nightfall ready for your flight the next morning.

Make sure any car you hire has Winter equipment...snow tyres fitted + chains in the boot (trunk).

It would unusual to get as much snow as this, but it's always a possibility in late Jan in Southern Germany.



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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Oof. Those pictures are gorgeous.

Right now I'm looking real hard at Frankfurt to Chamonix via Paris. Overall travel time is significantly greater than Austrian/Swiss resorts, but I can overnight train from Paris to Chamonix to optimize a bit. On the reverse trip back I could spend a couple days in Paris or Lyon. I'd honestly prefer Val Thorens (also an option via Paris), but looks like accommodations in Val Thorens are 2-5x more.

I think that's probably option A. Option B will likely be St. Anton. But still open to suggestions if someone thinks I have to see THEIR favorite resort.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@kimchijajonshim, why through Paris?

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query2.exe/en?ld=15058&seqnr=2&ident=ho.02176258.1451475744&rt=1&rememberSortType=minDeparture&HWAI=JS!ajax=yes!&HWAI=CONNECTION$C1-0!id=C1-0!HwaiConId=C1-0!HwaiDetailStatus=details!;~CONNECTION$C1-0!HwaiMapStatus=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapNumber=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapSlider=UNDEFINED!HwaiDetailHimMessage=UNDEFINED!;

If that link works for you that would be more efficient I'd have thought?

I have often taken the train from Geneva to Frankfurt and back.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 30-12-15 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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Or, switch at Bern and head to Wengen or Mürren. They'll offer a really alpine atmosphere that you not find in North America and some good off piste if you go out with an instructor / guide.

And very fine scenery. (Not that the alps are generally unpleasant... wink )


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 30-12-15 11:49; edited 1 time in total
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Oh and fingers crossed snow conditions hopefully improving through next week.
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Link probably broken but it's this route

Frankfurt(Main)Hbf Fr, 15.01.16 dep 10:05 6 ICE 71 Intercity-Express Direction: Chur
Bordrestaurant
Basel SBB Fr, 15.01.16 arr 12:54 5
Transfer time 37 min.
Adjust the transfer time
Basel SBB Fr, 15.01.16 dep 13:31 10 IC 1073 Intercity Direction: Interlaken Ost
Number of bicycles conveyed limited , Reservation optional , business-compartment , Bordrestaurant , handy/quiet zones , parent-and-children compartment
Bern Fr, 15.01.16 arr 14:24 6
Transfer time 10 min.
Adjust the transfer time
Bern Fr, 15.01.16 dep 14:34 5 IC 720 Intercity Direction: Geneve-Aeroport
Number of bicycles conveyed limited , Reservation optional , business-compartment , Bordrestaurant , handy/quiet zones , parent-and-children compartment
Lausanne Fr, 15.01.16 arr 15:40 5
Transfer time 10 min.
Adjust the transfer time
Lausanne Fr, 15.01.16 dep 15:50 6 IR 1825 Interregio Direction: Brig
Number of bicycles conveyed limited
Martigny Fr, 15.01.16 arr 16:42 2
Transfer time 3 min.
Adjust the transfer time
Martigny Fr, 15.01.16 dep 16:45 40 R 26226 Regionalzug Direction: Vallorcine
Number of bicycles conveyed limited
Vallorcine Fr, 15.01.16 arr 17:33
Transfer time 5 min.
Adjust the transfer time
Vallorcine Fr, 15.01.16 dep 17:38 TER18926 Train Express Regional Direction: St-Gervais-les-Bains
2nd class only
Chamonix-Mont-Blanc Fr, 15.01.16 arr 18:10
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
By car is about 6 hours drive to somewhere reasonable in Austria or Switzerland, although there are closer (eg Oberstdorf, or Schwarzwald, or Vosges). French Alps are further still.
By plane - very short sub 1 hr flight to Innsbruck, Salzburg or Geneva, followed by ca. 1 hour to somewhere with substantial skiing.
By train - not sure if it's still running, or if it's still running all the way, but there is one direct train per day from Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof to Graz, that conveniently stops in Radstadt and Schaldming, and another one per day from Frankfurt to Klagenfurt that I think stops in Badgastein (etc.). I've used the first one once. Other trains need a change somewhere, but 2 trains from Frankfurt or Frankfurt Airport, can get you to lots of ski resorts. There's also a night train that links many ski resorts with Frankfurt.

My choice would normally be Innsbruck (easier by car than train from Frankfurt imho). Really must do Salzburg/Radstadt again some time (easy by train). Althoug saying that, I'd hate to think how many times I've driven right past German ski resorts (that are easily accessible by car or train) to go to Austria for a weekend.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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Preferring Val Thorens over St.Anton sounds like you are seriously misinformed in some way.
Or is it the snow that worries you?
Snow is coming next week. Stick to St.Anton, really!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
How about the Black Forest area, some great skiing had around the Feldberg area. Ok, so not as substantive as the Alps, but for the short duration not a bad area, and only 3 hours drive from Frankfurt..
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Langerzug wrote:
Preferring Val Thorens over St.Anton sounds like you are seriously misinformed in some way.
Or is it the snow that worries you?
Snow is coming next week. Stick to St.Anton, really!

Mostly it was a suggestion on another board to stay at high elevation due to poor snow so far. Why in your opinion is St. Anton >>> Val Thorens? Any thoughts on Anton versus Chamonix?

under a new name wrote:
@kimchijajonshim, why through Paris?

Mostly because the Paris route was all that showed up off the site I was using (raileurope.com). Your route is quicker, but does require a lot more transfers and travel while awake. That said I might be willing to commit the 26th to travel and do night train on the way back. Any idea on rough cost? The site you provided is telling me it can't tell me total fare because it involves outside countries.

Simon94 wrote:
How about the Black Forest area, some great skiing had around the Feldberg area. Ok, so not as substantive as the Alps, but for the short duration not a bad area, and only 3 hours drive from Frankfurt..

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm in Europe very seldom (last time was six years ago), so I'm not sure when I'll be back. I'd like to see something as substantive as I can find.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Simon94, Feldberg doesn't really have the same ambiance of the alpine resorts. For someone coming from North America, I'd much rather drive a little further to the Jungfrau. Of more concern, Feldberg currently has no snow at all.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jungfrau is stunning, well worth the visit!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
On St.Anton vs. Val Thorens:
From Frankfurt, Val Thorens is a terrible circumstantial trip, whilst St.Anton is very easy by train or car.
Moreover, Val Thorens is seriously lacking in some major aspects, especially charm, scenery and authentic atmosphere! Whilst St.Anton has some really serious skiing, maybe even more than Val Thorens.
Also in January, Val Thorens is full of European students, and not the nicest set of students
St.Anton simply has the perfect mix.
Chamonix is only interesting if your main focus is on serious off piste and touring. The main skiing area is not the greatest in Europe.
Just watch the weather next week. Snow is forecast!
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@kimchijajonshim, have a look at either www.loco2.com or the Swiss site which I usually use www.sbb.com/en
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Frankfurt to Salzburg is a one-hour flight with Austrian Airlines or Lufthansa. Currently available for €112 return on the OP's dates, so why spend 2 days out of a 5-day break faffing about on trains? There are numerous resorts within 90 mins of Salzburg.

Unless we get a snow miracle in the next three weeks, forget all about epic off-piste and waist-deep powder. Instead, enjoy the groomers, the atmosphere and apres in Austria, which is totally different from anything the OP will have experienced Stateside.
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@Langerzug, I hadn't realized how off-piste focused Chamonix is. Big mountain off-piste is my ideal riding, but as @quinton mentions the snow quantity and quality probably doesn't justify the trouble of getting out there. You've sold me on St Anton as option A. Thanks!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Simon94 wrote:
How about the Black Forest area, some great skiing had around the Feldberg area. Ok, so not as substantive as the Alps, but for the short duration not a bad area, and only 3 hours drive from Frankfurt..



Yes, Winterberg or Feldberg are 2-3 hours away from Frankfurt and popular with locals:

http://www.winterberg.de
http://www.liftverbund-feldberg.de

If it must be the Alps, then Garmisch (hosted the Winter Olympics) or Engelberg (Switzerland) are 4-6 hours away and can even be done on a daytrip:

http://zugspitze.de/en/winter/skiarea/garmisch-classic
http://www.engelberg.ch/en/

If it must be a trophy resort for bragging rights, then Chamonix and Zermatt or Verbier (best resort in the Alps) are 6-8 hours away:

http://www.chamonix.com/chamonix-mont-blanc,0,en.html
http://www.zermatt.ch

Regarding Germany -- Bavaria in the south is the only good bit worth exploring. The rest is nice but boring. Try Munich (city) and Hitler's castle (countryside / history):

http://www.muenchen.de/int/en/tourism.html
http://www.kehlsteinhaus.de/en/kehlsteinhaus.php?navid=1
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Whitegold wrote:
If it must be a trophy resort for bragging rights, then Chamonix and Zermatt or Verbier (best resort in the Alps) are 6-8 hours away...

Here's a question for you: are the "trophy" resorts worthy of their reputations? I'm more interested in unique experiences and epic shredding than buying into brand names. If I'm able to get equally good shred on at lower key mountains, I'm all for it.
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@kimchijajonshim, you can get epic snow anywhere if you're lucky. I know that's obvious but is often forgotten around here rolling eyes

If I was you, I'd be minimising my travel time to maximise snow time. Although there are some limits to that. So cheap flights in and out of FFT would be worth considering.

For a really "Alpine" i.e. "chocolate box" experience look to Austria or Switzerland. As I suggested, Wengen/Mürren could be good. Or indeed, Andermatt (which is where the Swiss Army train for powder).

I very much like Verbier and it has a justified reputation. Chamonix does as well.

But be aware that Europe isn't Utah. Off the groomers you are at your own risk and responsibility. If something goes terribly wrong, they'll pick your body up once the snow melts.

You might want to consider taking a guide...

But let's face it. The difficulty to this question is how hard it is to get wrong. As in, almost anywhere you go will give you a wildly different experience to what you are used to. Which is surely the point?

Focusing on crazy wild, gnarly shredding while missing out on alpine ambience, food and culture to me would be a waste.
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I would forget French resorts, they are too much work to get to from Frankfurt, unless you have suitable onward flights to GVA in which case you can transfer to Chamonix in little over an hour. A lot of snow is forecast next couple of weeks which will mostly benefit the West so Chamonix should be good. I think it would be too much transferring for 2-3 hours from GVA to get to Val Thorens (and if I was going to do that I would recommend Espace Killy or Les Arcs rather than 3V).

St Anton is more doable, iconic, meets your needs, and will be receiving some snow and almost certainly will be in decent shape by last week of January
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I agree with @under a new name and @peanuthead, head for St.Anton or Wengen.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@kimchijajonshim, I would use trains, they are very efficient in Europe and offer good value for a solo traveller. you don't say where your flying in from, but if your tired a train would allow a bit of rest for you, and will probably be cheaper than hiring a car or flying. Also factor in the check in times for flying, allow minimum of 2 hours before departure.

https://www.bahn.de/p_en/view/ is the German railway site, you can get a train from the station to many resorts or certainly close to one.
Have a look at Zell am See in Austria it's a scenic setting with skiing out of the town or a bus ride to Kaprun and glacier skiing. There are also a number of other resorts close to Zell easily accessible if you wanted to ski a different resort each day.
You will also find accommodation easy in Austria, there's lots of pensions that do bed and breakfast, and wont be that expensive for a single for when your travelling, the web site for each resort will have links to accommodation.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Winterberg has maybe one lift open. And Feldberg absolut nothing...forget it...
try to visit St. Anton or somewhere in Swiss Alps
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
peanuthead wrote:
I would forget French resorts, they are too much work to get to from Frankfurt, unless you have suitable onward flights to GVA in which case you can transfer to Chamonix in little over an hour. A lot of snow is forecast next couple of weeks which will mostly benefit the West so Chamonix should be good. I think it would be too much transferring for 2-3 hours from GVA to get to Val Thorens (and if I was going to do that I would recommend Espace Killy or Les Arcs rather than 3V).

St Anton is more doable, iconic, meets your needs, and will be receiving some snow and almost certainly will be in decent shape by last week of January



The French Alps (and Swiss / Austrian) are easy to get to from Frankfurt. Just rent a car at the airport. Can be there in 5-6 hours. Soak up the local atmosphere along the way, which gets missed on a plane.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kimchijajonshim wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
If it must be a trophy resort for bragging rights, then Chamonix and Zermatt or Verbier (best resort in the Alps) are 6-8 hours away...

Here's a question for you: are the "trophy" resorts worthy of their reputations? I'm more interested in unique experiences and epic shredding than buying into brand names. If I'm able to get equally good shred on at lower key mountains, I'm all for it.



Chamonix has the steepest / toughest skiing in the world (offpiste with a guide). The glacier rolling into the village at Argentiere is almost unique in the Alps. But the ski areas are very spreadout along the valley and a pain to trek to (miles apart).

Zermatt has the most perfect mountain-shaped mountain in the world and a pretty river running through the town. Its skiing is tough, but not epic. You go mostly for the Matterhorn and occasional heliskiing.

St Anton has the best skiing in Austria. The offpiste is good and the top of the famous Valluga (with a guide) is a bit like Corbet's Couloir on 'roids. But the resort can get very crowded, and, apart from the start of the Valluga, there's not much truly steep stuff.

Verbier is popular with minor British royals and Russian millionaires. Nightlife buzzes. The itineraries (semi-offpiste) are easily accessible, numerous, long and steep. The steep bits are rarely slip-and-die like Chamonix, but they are steep enough to deliver some fun without paying for a guide (e.g. Mont Fort).

They are the genuine "big 4" trophy resorts in the Alps.

If you want slip-and-die trails (with a guide) and a hardcore mountain town, go to Chamonix.

If you want steep-enough itineraries with a wealthy crowd, go to Verbier.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
good luck getting to french alps in 6 by car. frankfurt-geneva is pretty much bang on 6 hours by car or train.
seems silly to go right past german, swiss and austrian alps (call that 6 hours to most "good" places) to get to french ones a good 2 hours further up the road, for a short 2 day trip.

go to st. anton if you want a "trophy" resort. go to Innsbruck if you want to combine the city sightseeing with a few days sliding, with hotels that are 100% geared up for arriving at silly hours, and geared up for 1, 2 and 3 night stays rather than full weeks. That's where I'll be. And I'm 15 minutes closer to the alps en route from frankfurt airport.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Whitegold,
Quote:
Regarding Germany -- Bavaria in the south is the only good bit worth exploring. The rest is nice but boring. Try Munich (city) and Hitler's castle (countryside / history):
true, except that the Eagles Nest (Kehlsteinhaus) is not open nor accessible in winter!

All things considered I would be hiring a car and heading to Engelberg, Andermatt or Wengen. Each to his own though.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Chamonix is about to get pounded by snow. I just moved from Frankfurt to the UK. I'd say fly to Geneva, get a transfer to Chamonix, and hire a guide. You won't regret it.
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If you want to fly and then have a shorter drive, then try a flight from Frankfurt to Zurich. There should be a ton of flights on this route (both are major Euro hubs). Hire a car from Zurich and then decide by the snow conditions - go east to Austria, St Anton, or stay in Swiss and hit Engelberg or Wengen or Verbier or Zermatt (the last 2 are a longer drive).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
a quick search on expedia gives 18 flights from frankfurt to zurich on your dates
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I wouldn't be making any decisions until one of your favoured destinations has some decent snow. conditions across the alps at the moment are poor even on piste, let alone off. The next couple of weeks will hopefully change things dramatically.
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andy wrote:
good luck getting to french alps in 6 by car. frankfurt-geneva is pretty much bang on 6 hours by car or train.
seems silly to go right past german, swiss and austrian alps (call that 6 hours to most "good" places) to get to french ones a good 2 hours further up the road, for a short 2 day trip.

go to st. anton if you want a "trophy" resort. go to Innsbruck if you want to combine the city sightseeing with a few days sliding, with hotels that are 100% geared up for arriving at silly hours, and geared up for 1, 2 and 3 night stays rather than full weeks. That's where I'll be. And I'm 15 minutes closer to the alps en route from frankfurt airport.


In terms of logistics, you can't go wrong with Andy's counsel. He knows this one better than anyone else.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Just looking at most recent forecast. Snow in Austria and Switzerland gonna be quite moderate and certainly won't be game changing but that could change in next few weeks. France could get 1.5 m in next week alone and could be all set up with base consolidated by time you get there. Maybe it is worth the extra effort
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Thanks all. I am going to hold off a couple weeks and get a last minute booking depending on where snow is best. I'm thinking most likely Saint Anton unless Chamonix is so overwhelmed by the goods that I can't pass it up.

Thanks!
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Andermatt is the nearest resort to FFM.
Wengan by car is approx 7hrs, depends on the area around Basel, can be slow.
Try FISSC, they are the Frankfurt Ski Club, they always have weekend or 4 day trips on.
FSCEV.ORG
Last time I triedFeldberg there were two small areas serviced by three lifts, great for a day but not worth any more, real local day trip place.
Cheaper rates for car hire at the Hauptbahnhof (station) than the airport and only 10 mins on the train (S-bahn) from airport, or at least it used to be!
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