Hi
I’ve been an SH member for a number of years and have been moved to submit my first post.
A friend and I have skied together annually/bi-annually for over 30 years and we are always at loggerheads over ski technique - Statler and Waldorf of the Muppets spring to mind (we’ve both taken beneficial carving and mogul sessions over the last couple of years at Hemel).
Any 3rd party opinions/pointers on the skiing in the following limited video clip would be welcome.
Bit twisty. Bit pushing the backs of the skis out. Get a bit lower, get over on your edges more and let the ski do the work, roll the foot from your little toe to the big one and vice versa. A bit less pushing out of the outside hip. Still very nice skiing tho.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It looks ok for a holiday skier, it's a bit old school, feet slightly too close together, but watch the knees when you open up, and definitely some tail swishing going on. Maybe some more upper body, lower body separation required too.
A bit like me really
Well I think its pretty good ... I cant quite see how wide the grin on your face is, but I can feel you are smiling.
OK ... it may be exactly the way we wanted it to look 25 years ago you've mastered .
But you can master that in the next 30 years, I doubt if this ski generation would master it.
Plus I do like your skinny poles, but I think if you shortened them by about 2" you could get a better pole action.
i.e. keep your hand still in front of you and just twitch the pole rather than jabbing it through, would make your upper body much calmer.
Hey ... it all looks good ... I wish I could do it as good as that!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It appears as though the front half of your skis are broken or have no edges.
Looking good and fun though so who cares!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Think about what performance are you getting from your skis. Where are they starting to grip the snow? I think it's relatively late in the turn because in the first half of the turn you are being quite active at twisting them. On that terrain and in that soft snow you should be able to get the skis to grip a bit earlier.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Looking at the Video; think about the pivot point; have a look at it; where are the skis Pivoting (roughly).
Under foot? Forward of the Toe binding?
Once you've worked that out; what needs to change.
As others have said; you are also "pushing" hour heels (a function of the pivot point, opps; have I given it away?)
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thanks for all the positive suggestions guys (btw the video is not of me, I have other issues).
It's reassuring to hear views/analyses that concur with my own!
Steve
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The skier can obviously ski.
Skis like Quasimodo. Stand up and relax.
Turning for the sake of turning.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Incidentally the skier in the video insists that no adjustment of technique is required when skiing off-piste, rather than on (again we disagree).
Being a capable off-piste skier, might this go someway to explain the pointers noted about the skiing in the on-piste video?
pushing the backs of the skis out
where the skis are Pivoting
appears as though the front half of your skis are broken or have no edges
you should be able to get the skis to grip a bit earlier
get over on your edges more and let the ski do the work
roll the foot from your little toe to the big one and vice versa
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I'd say the fore/aft is looking a bit too forward which has moved the pivot point forward. The back is therefore too light and will slide out.
So bring the weight back a bit and pivot from the heel.
The other thing is the hip is coming round so they also need to concentrate on turning the legs first inside the hip joint (with the heel as a pivot point as mentioned above).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@seb400, in theory there is little difference in technique between death cookies and powder IF the technique is sound in the first place. Both require good technique and will soon expose tail swinging, balance issues and pressure management failings etc. I think you have little place in improving your friend and having our comments to beat him won't help either. He may well be happy how he is which is fine, if he wants to develop then I suspect he will need professional input.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@seb400, curious what you are thinking, having mentioned being 'at loggerheads over ski technique' with the skier in the video. He looks pretty competent so, as advised above, best progress would be in the hands of a good instructor.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
Incidentally the skier in the video insists that no adjustment of technique is required when skiing off-piste, rather than on (again we disagree).
Being a capable off-piste skier, might this go someway to explain the pointers noted about the skiing in the on-piste video?
pushing the backs of the skis out
where the skis are Pivoting
appears as though the front half of your skis are broken or have no edges
you should be able to get the skis to grip a bit earlier
get over on your edges more and let the ski do the work
roll the foot from your little toe to the big one and vice versa
Personally I agree with where you are heading here - what it comes down to is that the skier could be carving more and pivoting less, even in short turns. I would certainly want to be - I'd get bored skiing like that on piste, I'm sure he could do it in his sleep. But the thing is, he is also right. He doesn't NEED to change anything. It is a perfectly serviceable technique that will get him through any and all conditions. Personally I think he could have more fun and satisfaction using a wider variety of techniques but that is entirely up to him.
No?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If he's happy then I'd leave him where he is and just go skiing. He already skis reasonably well, to my inexpert eye and he won't improve much unless he wants to. Furthermore, while I think the advice here is on the right lines acting on advice received off the internet without an instructor is nigh on impossible.
That said, as others have pointed out (and bear in mind I am not an instructor) there are two obvious things going on here:
1) He's engaging the new inside edge quite late in the turn and it looks like he is pivoting the skis from the forefoot.
2) He's a little hunched and would benefit from a more upright stance. That might clear up some of the issues in point #1. Stance could be a technique thing. It could be a gear thing - his boots/bindings might be holding him too far forward. You can tell if it is a gear thing by having the skier squat when clicked into their bindings and seeing whether the skier's armpits are roughly vertically aligned with their knees. That's a little bucket and a bootfitter will do more sophisticated things - but it's good enough to know whether you should be talking to a fitter or not.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Personally I agree with where you are heading here - what it comes down to is that the skier could be carving more and pivoting less
Hi Jedster - my thought exactly. I think it's because in the turn 'Phase 2 - establish platform' is bypassed through a skid, into a compromised Phase 3.
Hi Jedster - my thought exactly. I think it's because in the turn 'Phase 2 - establish platform' is bypassed through a skid, into a compromised Phase 3.
Yes - but it is a bigger issue than that, he is simply not attempting to generate significant edge angles. I don't think he is trying to carve. If he doesn't want to he won't.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@seb400, Rear wheel drive . . . you're in control . . . you're neat and tidy . . . you're doing everything you need to go down the hill with the minimum of effort to achieve a safe and elegant arrival to the next lift queue. There's nowt wrong with that and thousands of us take enormous pleasure in doing so.
However, from a purely bio-mechanical viewpoint, as much as you think by dropping your shoulders forward to be aggressive, your аrѕе is your anchor.
Look at the vid again and see how far back from your footprint your centre of mass is entering your skis. From there your only choices are to try and angulate and engage the ski edge or smear the turn as you do. The latter is much the more natural thing our brains want us to do.
You really need to get some practical, on snow instructional feedback, there are plenty of resources here from Rob@rar to NewGen. You might be able to work it out for yourself . . . that's if you have three months to go play in the whitestuff.
A simple measure is . . . If you can't feel your toes in control of what your doing, you're not in control.
note lots of advice and answers here....one questions I have is what outcome are you looking for?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
one questions I have is what outcome are you looking for?
that's what I was getting at
After all it is free
After all it is free
I wasn't looking for a particular outcome, I was just interested in the general consensus of opinion.
I'm not the skier featured - I filmed the video. The subject is a regular ski buddy with whom I find our differences in opinion/method frustrating. Even more so as there's only ever just the two of us skiing together. I learned to ski on school trips in the 70s. During the 80s I began training as an ASSI with my local club, and then taught lessons on a local dry slope. So a fairly structured path. My friend is almost entirely self-taught and has little respect for formal instruction. He dismisses any observations/suggestions I might make to the extent that I began to wonder if my analyses were valid. It was reassuring to hear that the kind contributions mirrored my own views. The subject did concede that from the suggestions made two were worth consideration!
Steve
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
seb400 wrote:
The subject did concede that from the suggestions made two were worth consideration!
Please tell us!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The important messages for me coming out of the Snowheads comments are (1) don 't crouch because I'm far enough forward anyway and getting your chest nearer the knees restricts absorption and lower leg angulation and (2) get better separation to avoid any need to swing the hip out to compensate.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
seb400 wrote:
Incidentally the skier in the video insists that no adjustment of technique is required when skiing off-piste
That's true, if the technique is right in the first place.
In his case he'll probably want to widen his stance a tad and skiing on the tails will trip him up in difficult snow - if that is, indeed, how he intends to ski off piste.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
That's true, if the technique is right in the first place.
same skills but the blend of them is a bit different, no?
For example, I rarely set as high edge angles off-piste. I carve a bit less and pivot a bit more. All about choices to achieve certain outcomes.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Maybe the guys just really happy with his skiing? he looks happy enough to me. From a trained eye yes there are things he could improve/change if he wanted to, but that goes for everyone, instructors included.....we can become too bogged down in the technicalities of skiing, and miss out on the enjoyment of just being out in the mountains, bombing around with our mates.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
We're both looking toward continuous improvement and searching for ways to do that, that's the challenge. Any sense of achievement adds to the enjoyment.
I've always been of the opinion (sensed) that skis behave very differently in powder to on-piste. For example, if you ski straight down a groomed shallow slope with parallel skis on-piste the skis will be essentially flat underfoot. If you perform the same action in powder you will run in a straight line, but the tips and tails of the ski will sit higher in the snow than underfoot, even running straight the skis will be cambered, ready to turn, with no input.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I ski powder in my dynastar race skis, of course there's different dynamics involved between piste and powder skiing and different mechanics involved. it'd be good if you had a goal in mind, is there any specific part of your skiing you both want to change?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In a nutshell?
You've seen the video of my ski buddy above, and there have been many valid and useful tips for him to embrace, thanks.
We ski at a similar level, but the areas in which each of us need to improve, I believe, are very different. My skiing is steeped in 'old school' methodology - Stem Christie. While I'm grateful for the stability it brings I am still working on eliminating the traces of wedge/stem when skiing parallel (and I still really enjoy Stenmark type skating slalom turns). My stance is too upright (pipe and slippers) and is not nearly dynamic enough (even when mindful of it) for me to attain the sort of response I need to achieve effective flowing carve turns. We still like to think that while age and fitness may be contributory, it's not yet a deciding factor.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Notice all his 'steering' comes from in front of his boot. He gets nicely over on his edges and lets the shape of the ski do the work with no 'forcing' of the tails to get them round.
Hi Don - I see the same as you.
I find it interesting that people view the same thing but are able to interpret what's happening differently.
I have a 'walk before run' attitude to skiing skills. I don't believe that there are any shortcuts to good technique, and that real progress is built upon sound basics. 'Ski evolutif' being a case in point. It may have given rise to early progress to parallel in new skiers (great for the coffers of the ski industry), but at the expense of skidding rather than effective turning.
Would anyone agree that achieving dynamic ski/knee/body angulation (stacking) relies upon a well set, stable edge throughout the turn on which to build it first?
Steve
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Its admirable that you have all set your sites high, to ski like that you'll need to get yourselves through a number of performance and or instructor courses, you wont get the answers or guidance you need form a forum.
I realise that I'll never be able to ski like that, regardless of ski courses and snow-time. I just enjoy working on trying to improve and how best to do so.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I think you do yourself down. I would suggest booking that bloke for private lessons and following his tracks. You'll take his lines at his speed and before you know it, you're imitating him perfectly ish. After he's gone home for the day is a different story but get someone to video you and you'll be amazed at the results
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Please tell us!