 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi all. I've just took a pair of brand new ski's i've aquired to what i thought was a very reputable ski technician. He is well recommended on snow heads for boot fitting and all things ski, and therefore seemed like a good shout for my ski service.
However, he gave me completely the opposite advice to everything i've ever been told or read about ski servicing and tuning new ski's and even also contradicted advice i was given from many others regarding binding positions.
He told me that brand new ski's do not need tuning or waxing at all. He said the best wax a ski will ever get is from the factory and the best edge and angle is also given from the manufacturer. He informed me that it was pointless applying wax to a new ski, and he would rather ski a pair of skis straight out of the packet rather than a serviced pair.
Also, regarding ski binding position. He wanted to move my bindings so that the BoF point was 4cm rearwards of the CRS. I'm not sure that this is the best position for me, it seems very far back.
I was just wondering does anyone agree with him?? I respect his opinion as a qualified ski technician, but i find it hard to believe he is correct and so many others are wrong. The maths just don't add up. Also i'm concerned if he is wrong and i don't have time to get my skis serviced and tuned before i go on holiday, which is soon, as i don't want to ruin my new skis.
What do you guys think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Haven't a clue about binding position but surely he's talking sense when it comes to tuning. The best edge a ski is ever gonna have is straight from the factory.Same with the wax.
Would you take delivery of a brand new car and have it serviced when the engine, oil, gearbox, running gear etc are in the best condition they ever will be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I understand that mentality, but i was under the impression that a manufacturers factory wax was only really for storage and transportation purposes, and might only last one day on the slopes.
Also i appreciate that the sharpness of an edge will be the best it will ever be straight from the manufacturer, however it was the angle i wanted changing. Head supply the skis with an angle of 1' side and 1' base angles, but i would prefer 1' base, and 2.5' side angles. However this ski technician said it wouldn't be a good idea to change them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@KennyEverett, factory edge tuning can be variable. Some skis are fine straight from the factory but others can have very little base edge bevel making them dangerously hooky and almost unskiable on firm snow. I bought a pair of 110mm waisted freeride skis a few years ago that fell into the latter category and needed a fair bit of work before they became enjoyable to use. They're now great but were awful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| superG wrote: |
| However this ski technician said it wouldn't be a good idea to change them. |
So when you asked to spend some money with him and he said that's not a good idea, I would guess that he was telling you that on the basis of genuine good advice rather than what he could cream from you. That's the sort of advice I'd take any day over someone taking my hard earned from me just because they could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Controversial...
Tech's do suggest waxing new ski's (repeatedly) in an attempt to impregnate wax into the base. In addition it cleans up the base and removes any remnants from the base grind. Ovens are sometimes used to help with the waxing.
I don't see why changing the side edge to what you want is an issue. I default to a 2 degree side as that is the file I have but probably wouldn't bother until the first service. I have had new ski's with hanging burs left from the factory grind, but hopefully that is unusual. However the advice I've had is to leave the base angle unless there is reason to think it's duff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Factory tune depends on the factory for a start. The level of tune some of the mico brew factories like ON3P go to are incredible (hot boxed etc in the factory) on that basis I wouldn't do anything at 1st to one of their skis. I will however in most cases clean and hot scrape the base and re wax it, my Line Influences bases were not brilliant out of the factory and were full of contamination, they were cleaned and re-waxed, brushed and finished.
I've skied a fair few things straight out the wrapped and tunes have been skiable at best. I've had some skis serviced buy people who should never be let near a ski and I've had tunes and services that have vastly improved how a ski feels.
On skis from most places I would check the base with a true bar, check the factory data for the edge and base edge and if I didn't like it have it base ground and re set it, some companies set things up out of the box far better. I always take a gummy stone out with me right away as in my exp most if not all skis do need a gentle de tune on the tip and tail.
On the topic of cars out of the factory I would change the oil straight away and then after 1k of driving, the engine has been started for the 1st time, same for the gear box and driven (often at speed with little care) round the factory this is the point when the engine beds in and most of the swarf from the gears and piston rings and bores will be loosened off. I've worked in BMW plant and seen how the cars are dirven its not pretty...  fresh oil is best gift you can give a car. When we build race engines we change the oil after 500 miles then after 1k on the MINI's. Normally the oil from new will sit in a car till its done 15k these days. I change the oil in mine every 5k as most main brand oils are cooked by that point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi Guys, I think I'm the tech in question. While I agree that sometimes factory supplied ski's can be prepared poorly the ski's in question are from a major manufacturer who, in my experience (and I have ski tested with this factory many times with ski's directly from the wrapper including this model) and have never found them to be badly prepared. As a technician (and the business owner) I would not normally recommend servicing new ski's or boards until needed for two reasons:
1. The factory prep, especially from the main manufacturers, is usually superb. Ceramic edge grinds, factory wax impregnated into the base while it's still warm from the autoclave process, factory quality control and stone ground finishes are all facts that any workshop will struggle to replicate.
2. You are removing life from the product. Each and every time the ski's are serviced you loose edge and base meat and shorten the life of the ski. I'd say that most ski's and boards will last around 15 full services before the base and edge thickness becomes too thin for further service. In our experience factory servicing lasts around 2/3 weeks of skiing if conditions are good, the only reason we would recommend initial service is if they are to be used in extreme conditions straight away, i.e. very hard pack cold crystalline snow or soft, wet warm snow. Even then this would be more about the structure of the base rather than waxing and edging.
Some skiers may want to prepare their own skis' and that's fine if it's for the right reasons, i.e. they race and need to hotbox wax to impregnate, require specific edge and base angles, need bespoke binding positions etc. but these are very specific needs and not normally relevant for recreational skiers.
From what has been posted the issue is more the base and side edge angles but this wasn't mentioned in the conversation. If it had of been we would have talked about that as this is a skier preference rather than a 'Is the factory prep good enough? question.
Finally, thanks for thinking about your local independent for the advice post purchase.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@pugster, do you mind if I ask if Blizzard falls under your category of "main manufacturers"? Was thinking of getting my new Bonafides waxed before first use in Feb but have been prevaricating due to the conflicting advice on here and yours is the first "don't wax" advice with any credibility!
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| pugster wrote: |
| The Snowheads ski test will have ski's supplied from manufacturer test pools and unless they have been previously damaged they will not have been touched. (I also service the full test fleet for a major manufacturer prior to the test fleet being sold on at the end of the buying period). |
I don't think you can compare a Snowheads test with an industry one. The total number of skis is a lot less and several of the importers had serviced the skis before the test on the one that I attended.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Not trying to compare the two at all, just stating that if you see test ski's that have been recently serviced it isn't because they needed it from new, rather it is because they have been used enough by previous testers to warrant servicing.
I don't know any reps, with the exception of race ski's where base bevel/side angle/side wall thickness have a personal attribute to them, who do not un wrap the ski's and put them on test without any further prep. My point being that if out of the wrapper factory prep is good enough for industry testers (Graham Bell anyone?) then it is certainly good enough for most skiers.
This also means that the manufacturers have enough faith in their finish to allow testers to ski the product and report on it without any special preparation, safe in the knowledge that a bad report won't be about the prep but rather the testers view of how the product ski's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| jma wrote: |
@pugster, do you mind if I ask if Blizzard falls under your category of "main manufacturers"? Was thinking of getting my new Bonafides waxed before first use in Feb but have been prevaricating due to the conflicting advice on here and yours is the first "don't wax" advice with any credibility!
Thanks. |
Blizzard make great ski's and I personally found the Bonafide and Brahma very confidence inspiring when I tested them prior to release. They had definitely not been serviced prior to my slide as it was on the first day of the test, so the factory prep was excellent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Skied my Blizzard Bonafides straight of the wrapper and they were fantastic. Enjoy 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I've skied dozens of pairs of skis straight out of the wrapper and only ever detuned the tips/tails if I felt they needed it......
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@pugster,
Hi all, I just wanted to conclude this thread/discussion by saying the advice from pugster was spot on! i have been skiing twice so far once for a week and once for a few days with both sets of skis (Elan and Head) straight from factory with no service. Both pairs performed exceptionally well. I'd like to thank pugster for his honesty and genuinely great advice as i am aware certain people could easily have taken money for nothing in that situation.
Having now used both sets a cpl of times i will now be popping into his shop to have them re waxed - hoping to get away once more before the end of season 
Thanks again, should of listened first time lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
) then you'll read ski reviews before you buy. I can tell you absolutely without equivocation that every test you read will have been written by the tester after skiing them from the wrapper with NO special prep.
