 Poster: A snowHead
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A lot of people thing that more runs should be left unpisted to increase skiing ability, decrease speed etc. Out of interest, anyone know of any resorts that leave more than a token number of runs unpisted? I am particularly interested in whether there are any resorts that leave a significant number of blue runs unpisted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Most of the Scottish ones?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whistler has a few blues that they do everyday but a heck of a lot they only do once a week on rotation. Long way to go though. There are many people who won't go back to Whistler because there is not enough that is groomed. Takes all sorts I suppose.
They can also get a heck of a lot of snow in a day and sing later in the day on a green can be quite a mogul field.
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@dobby, 'run' is English for 'piste' so I think the answer to your question is basically 'No'
It would be an un-runned run - which is an oxymoron even in French
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It is mostly the harder runs left unpisted / unbashed (itineraries).
La Grave, France.
Pragelato, Italy.
St Anton, Austria.
Verbier, Switzerland.
Some baby resorts in New Zealand are known to leave slopes unpisted / unbashed.
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@red 27, uh, but "piste-ing" also tefers to grooming and runs to pistes, so entirely reasonable.
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Anywhere in North America. They post the bits they groom. Places like Taos they groom one half and leave the moguls on the other.
I'm not sure why you'd want moguls on a blue run, although you can often find them there if you look. They probably won't "decrease speed" though - easy moguls are just launch pads...
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Funny how piste is taken to mean groomed when it actually means "marked run" totally irrelevant of the surface condition. So not silly to ask if runs or pistes are left ungroomed or unbashed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kiroro, Hokkaido.
Much like many N American resorts.
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One of the reasons I ski in the States a lot. Easy for Mrs L to go down a groomed run, me a parallel ungroomed run, and meet at the bottom.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't agree with this - but that's just my opinion. There's nothing wrong with grooming pistes. Yes, there are a few runs that are left ungroomed.
All grooming does is make the best conditions out of what is available. What's wrong with that?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| All grooming does is make the best conditions out of what is available. What's wrong with that? |
I guess it depends on what you think is "best"
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| Quote: |
I guess it depends on what you think is "best"
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+1.
That.
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You know it makes sense.
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| dobby wrote: |
| A lot of people thing that more runs should be left unpisted to increase skiing ability, decrease speed etc. |
I suspect that leaving a large proportion of pistes "au naturel" would just mean that the prepared pistes become busier, perhaps with a higher number of collisions. I'd like to see some easier pistes left un-prepared to enable skiers to have an easier introduction to skiing unpisted snow, but with the security of hidden hazards (large rocks, tree stumps, etc) removed. But I don't think for one moment that there are a large number of skiers who would want the majority of pistes to be left in this state. Nor do I think it would do much to change attitudes about skiing without sufficient respect for your fellow slope users.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well, you could say that about everything.
Snow that is groomed lasts a damn sight longer than snow that isn't groomed - just by the act of compaction. So, that makes the best of what is available.
Pistes usually only get groomed once of an evening - so, if it is dumping with snow all night, it'll get pisted once - then there's loads of lovely soft stuff on top... if they just left snow and didn't groom it at all, the states that lot would be in after a few days would be unthinkable! you want to ski stuff like that to 'improve your ability' - then why aren't you seeking out more off-piste? even in poor or very poor conditions?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mountain Addiction, have you been reading 'Trolling for Dummies'?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Whitegold, I wouldn't say that St Anton leaves more than a token number of pistes ungroomed. There are a few fantastic itinerary slopes there, but you could probably ski the lot in a day. IIRC, even tiny Ste Foy has as many ungroomed slopes as St Anton. It's probably also worth adding Zermatt to the list - I haven't been there for a few years, but the whole area around Stockhorn used to be left gloriously unpisted.
If you want ungroomed snow without the costs and faff of a guide, North America is the place. They turn the grooming thing on its head: many resorts over there have only a token number of groomed runs and the punters love it, so North American skiing is often a pretty bad idea if you want to blast the pistes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Snow that is groomed lasts a damn sight longer than snow that isn't groomed ... that makes the best of what is available.
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Granted, if the snow is (as now) in short supply. But not in normal or later season conditions. Just not necessary. Anyway, skiers do a degree of compaction anyway.
The problem, in my eyes, is that it's much harder to find a decent bump run these days.
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@rob@rar, exactly what I want. Some easy but unbashed pistes as an intro to skiing unbashed pistes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've on rare occasion come across some pistes in France that would normally be pisted, be left ungroomed after a recent snowfall - it appeared to be for the enjoyment of the skiers, as most pistes were still groomed. The ones I can recall:
- a couple of red runs in Flaine that I'd skied before when groomed, but left alone on one occasion - enormous fun!
- a black in Combloux I've skied both groomed and ungroomed (after a fresh snowfall, all runs leading up to it and after were groomed)
- the main blue in Brevent I've seen after a snowfall where it had been groomed the night before, then in the morning only the central part of the (very wide) blue was groomed again, leaving excellent practice terrain at the sides, still onpiste, for beginners, or just people having fun 
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @Mountain Addiction, have you been reading 'Trolling for Dummies'? |
Careful, i might have to install an independent thought alarm if all my opinions are against the grain of what is generally considered acceptable by the masses.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
Snow that is groomed lasts a damn sight longer than snow that isn't groomed ... that makes the best of what is available.
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Granted, if the snow is (as now) in short supply. But not in normal or later season conditions. Just not necessary. Anyway, skiers do a degree of compaction anyway.
The problem, in my eyes, is that it's much harder to find a decent bump run these days. |
This is true, but it shouldn't automatically connect to leaving a certain percent of pistes ungroomed... I hate bump runs, don't mind a bumpy section but pump runs give me the heeby jeebies, my poor knees can't handle then, but then for the last 20 years they've had a lot of damage done to them 
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| Quote: |
The problem, in my eyes, is that it's much harder to find a decent bump run these days.
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+1
I would never say "Don't groom anything!" It's great to find a quiet piste without big bumps and try to get your elbow to touch the snow in the turn but it's also nice to do a bump run as well, not to mention offpiste.
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you want to ski stuff like that to 'improve your ability' - then why aren't you seeking out more off-piste? even in poor or very poor conditions?
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offpiste and ungroomed piste are nothing like each other unless it is just after a dump.
I'm going on the Birthday bash and the warm up week primarily because of the other people going, not for the Sella Ronda ski area where everything is groomed every night, there are no black runs that can remotely be regarded as "Very difficult"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stanton wrote: |
I'd rather makes turns on grass |
No surprise there - I get the impression you Cloggies are 'on grass' most of the time 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| @Whitegold, I wouldn't say that St Anton leaves more than a token number of pistes ungroomed. There are a few fantastic itinerary slopes there, but you could probably ski the lot in a day. IIRC, even tiny Ste Foy has as many ungroomed slopes as St Anton. It's probably also worth adding Zermatt to the list - I haven't been there for a few years, but the whole area around Stockhorn used to be left gloriously unpisted.. |
If you ad the itienaries in Lech, Zurs and Warth you get a fair few though.
Glencoe is my personal favourite, they groom the main basin and some lower runs but do leave some other runs natural, maybe with occasionaly grooming
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| Quote: |
The problem, in my eyes, is that it's much harder to find a decent bump run these days.
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+1
A couple more runs per resort left to go mogully and I'm happy. For ungroomed snow I can go off-piste but you need a certain volume of traffic to get good bumps.
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offpiste and ungroomed piste are nothing like each other unless it is just after a dump
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Well... not really. A week after a dump, a lot of the popular off-piste lines will look a lot like ungroomed pistes but probably a bit more chalky and somewhat less bumpy.
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I'd rather makes turns on grass than corduroy
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Bizarre. I like every kind of skiing. I can't understand why any decent skier wouldn't enjoy taking advantage of corduroy to ramp up to extreme edge angles and feel the g force.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| But I don't think for one moment that there are a large number of skiers who would want the majority of pistes to be left in this state. |
I'm sure you're right - but only in Europe. The bump runs are typically as busy as the groomers in the North American resorts that I've visited, though.
You enjoy what you're good at; you get good at what you practice; and you practice when you have an opportunity. European skiers don't get much opportunity to ski bumps, so they end up hating them. American skiers get loads of opportunities, so they love bumps.
If European resort were managed differently, we'd soon see a generation of skiers that demanded bumps. I think the relatively recent trend of converting groomed runs into itineraries is entirely a Good Thing. Long may it continue!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In Sauze d-oulx last year all the runs were ungroomed for almost all of our holiday. It was fun on the first day and then absolutely rubbish.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mountain Addiction, you're being very defensive about grooming when all the OP asked was where they could find ungroomed ones to practice. I don't see anything to 'disagree' with there. Seems like trying to pick a fight?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| I'm sure you're right - but only in Europe. |
Agreed. I think it might be a 'cultural' thing, as you suggest, but I also think there's a snowfall related aspect. If resort gets frequent falls of fresh snow, so ungroomed runs are often chopped up powder, turning to soft, well-spaced bumps, before turning to powder again with the next snowfall, then lots of prepared but ungroomed runs would be great. But the reality of ungroomed runs for most Euro resorts is heavily mogulled, misshapen, icy steps, with rocks peeking through at the bottom of some troughs. I doubt that many skiers would find that much fun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| I think the relatively recent trend of converting groomed runs into itineraries is entirely a Good Thing. Long may it continue! |
Indeed
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
But the reality of ungroomed runs for most Euro resorts is heavily mogulled, misshapen, icy steps, with rocks peeking through at the bottom of some troughs. I doubt that many skiers would find that much fun.
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some truth in that
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
European skiers don't get much opportunity to ski bumps, so they end up hating them.
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That's because of all the brutal grooming!!
It was very different 20 years ago.
@Mountain Addiction,
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| bump runs give me the heeby jeebies, my poor knees can't handle them |
Bumps shouldn't be hard on your knees. If they are, you aren't skiing them correctly.
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the bump isn't hard on my knees, but i don't have the strength in my knees to control myself properly
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
If European resort were managed differently, we'd soon see a generation of skiers that demanded bumps. I think the relatively recent trend of converting groomed runs into itineraries is entirely a Good Thing. Long may it continue! |
It that the generation that is in "the park" skiing rails etc ? or even on the SkiCross course
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @Mountain Addiction, you're being very defensive about grooming when all the OP asked was where they could find ungroomed ones to practice. I don't see anything to 'disagree' with there. Seems like trying to pick a fight? |
Not picking a fight - The first line of the OPs post is this ' A lot of people thing that more runs should be left unpisted to increase skiing ability, decrease speed etc.' so I said I disagee. Then i said i hated bumps... urg... I hate bumps. Not being arguementative at all. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In most places I've skied in Switzerland, although the pistes are groomed, they're not bashed motorway-flat - you still get lots of rollers, compressions, weird cambers etc
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Perhaps a few more. They have always been my favourite. Maybe there could be some that are groomed every 2 or 3 days. But then I am definitely in a minority in my group. Everyone else prefers the daily groom. But there's always the bits to the side of the piste and the created moguls and, of course, the late afternoon pistes.
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