 Poster: A snowHead
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With new boots taken care of skis are next on the agenda....
Had a look around Snell in Chamonix and there sure are a lot of choices. I'm looking for something in the 100-110 range 80/20 off piste to on, an all rounder that can handle mank, crud, ice while still excelling in powder and when there's a bit of a crust on top. Ideally on the lighter side as have Shiros for big powder days.
The guy in Snell recommended the new Blizzard Zero G 108 with Marker Kingpin bindings and also had good things to say about Black Crows Corvus Freebirds.
Any other ideas/recommendations?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My chums in ConceptPro suggest that the ZeroGs are marvellous, although the light weight may lend to reduced life, whereas this years all mountain range are lightened with a little carbon fibre but no less hard core - e.g. http://www.blizzard-ski.com/products/cochise/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They're not light (but IMO light is rarely what you want for mank, crud and ice), but I have a pair of these for 'everyday resort skiing' this season: www.downskis.com/shop/ltd-countdown-114m-2015
Hoping they'll be like a damper, charger version of my old Bibby Pros (been a while since I've skied anything with metal). They also come in a non-metal version if you want to go lighter. Down belongs to geo and Sist on TGR btw.
For resort I'd go Cochise over ZeroG. Take a look at the equivalent Nordica too - Enforcer?
I also have some new kingpins for touring. Haven't skied them yet, but they're a lot more confidence inspiring than my old TLT Speeds. Still doubt they'll be a good everyday whatever snow resort binding though.
Or do you mean you're looking for a touring ski? In which case the Corvus Freebirds do look really nice (only fondled them in shops mind), but pricey. You might also then look at the Down CD110 and CD107 and 4FRNT Ravens?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarky999, l like the look of the Orb Freebirds, but only 'cos they're fluo yellow... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've tried the black crows and liked them. However I have some White Dot Preacher CLs with my name on them, just need the big snow to go with the big skis.
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@under a new name, haha gotta admit the neon pink definitely makes the Corvus FBs more attractive too!
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Really enjoying the Whitedot R108. Not the best at any one thing but a really good all rounder. Were I buying now I would be looking at the heavier and utterly dissimilar Black Crows Atris very seriously.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I really like my Whitedot Preachers for the reasons mentioned; carves well on piste, cuts through crud and floats on crust and rides powder very well indeed. Whether they are right for you depends if you enjoy the pop of a traditional camber (Preacher) or prefer a rocker (eg Director)
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@clarky999, will be for lift served, boot pack and (short) touring. Already have 193 cm 119mm waisted Shiros so looking to avoid too much crossover with something shorter and lighter - and easier on knee (first season back after ACL reconstruction).
Have new K2 boots with tech insert hence attraction of the Kingpins to lose a bit more weight.
The Blizzard zero g seem not to lose too much to the Cochise at much reduced weight. Like the White dot and Down Suggestions too. Anyone skied the Volkl 100eight or Faction Chapter 106?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kastle MX 108
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@BobinCH, Zero Gs look mighty fine and are well light. I am looking forward to testing them when the snow's better.
I hate to cast aspersions, but Some Of My Chums Who Own Ski Shops had two grim seasons with Volkl returns, to the point that they have almost ceased stocking them.
Which is a terrible thing as a Volkl used to be the benchmark for a quality ski.
These could only be scurrilous rumours, but they shifted production from Germany elsewhere ... 
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| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| Whitedot Director Carbonlites |
This. If I had to have a 1 ski quiver this would be it. Gen 2 mind.
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You know it makes sense.
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new k2 coomback 104 is worth a look as well as the new Kastle fx 107 HP
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| BobinCH wrote: |
With new boots taken care of skis are next on the agenda....
Had a look around Snell in Chamonix and there sure are a lot of choices. I'm looking for something in the 100-110 range 80/20 off piste to on, an all rounder that can handle mank, crud, ice while still excelling in powder and when there's a bit of a crust on top. Ideally on the lighter side as have Shiros for big powder days.
The guy in Snell recommended the new Blizzard Zero G 108 with Marker Kingpin bindings and also had good things to say about Black Crows Corvus Freebirds.
Any other ideas/recommendations? |
have a look at the Volk BMT 109 V-werks if you are considering the Zero G 108, similar idea but more full subtle rocker, not bad in chop etc (obv not gotama/cochise but coming from that stable and you may well like if you skiing alongside the Shiro). I loved them , surprisingly good on piste" carving", hard, snow crust, chalk, couloir jumps and pivots. I skied them with a Beast 14 which helped dampen up any Carbon effect so kingpin should probably do the same. Not as cheap as the Zero's tho! Also didnt see may sales deals on these which tells me that they went down well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@BobinCH, 108mm Whitedot Ranger carbonlite. Nothing wrong with the Director CL by the way but the Ranger is a far more versatile ski for lift server freeride/ light touring I'd suggest. Ski'd the Director CL 3 years ago in Chamonix and its a bit too much skittish for my liking (if that makes sense), with the Ranger CL you can carve and float to your hearts content. I really wouldn't want to swap mine, indeed supplemented them with the new Rag CL for big powder days......perfect quiver imo.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lot of love for Whitedot here. Anywhere to test them in Verbier/Chamonix?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Markymark29, not skied the Director but I suspect a lot of this comes down to whether or not you like the trad feeling of the R108. It has a has a flattish tail, which some people don't like. It also very definitely goes where it is pointed until you tell it to do something else. I really like both of those things. It is a fantastic ski. But it requires quite an active driver.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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+1 - great guys in there. You can walk from their shop to the Flegere lift, or take the bus a few stops to GM. Or if you have a car then drive wherever you want 
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @BobinCH, 108mm Whitedot Ranger carbonlite. Nothing wrong with the Director CL by the way but the Ranger is a far more versatile ski for lift server freeride/ light touring I'd suggest. Ski'd the Director CL 3 years ago in Chamonix and its a bit too much skittish for my liking (if that makes sense), with the Ranger CL you can carve and float to your hearts content. I really wouldn't want to swap mine, indeed supplemented them with the new Rag CL for big powder days......perfect quiver imo. |
That would probably have been the Gen1 Director's then?? Quite of different ski in feel and design influence.
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@the_doc, I'm quite intrigued by this. I tried the Gen1 and loved them - I know they've been changed, and I've not had a chance to ski the new version. How do they differ, and what were you trying to achieve by changing them? (I'll try and pop into EchoBase myself in a few weeks to try them )
Btw, very impressed by the Rangers, great skis. Those I also need to take out on a real mountain and push a bit.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| @Markymark29, not skied the Director but I suspect a lot of this comes down to whether or not you like the trad feeling of the R108. It has a has a flattish tail, which some people don't like. It also very definitely goes where it is pointed until you tell it to do something else. I really like both of those things. It is a fantastic ski. But it requires quite an active driver. |
Yep, the R.108 is like a euro Llasa Pow 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@spyderjon, sort of. There's a lot of similarity. It is a shed load better on hard snow than the Lhasa without losing any of the ability to slide the tail in deeper snow. It is a better ski.
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| Quote: |
It also very definitely goes where it is pointed until you tell it to do something else. I really like both of those things. It is a fantastic ski. But it requires quite an active driver.
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Interesting - I find it very easy to ski, forgiving and very nimble but I guess it depends what you are used to.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fixx wrote: |
@the_doc, I'm quite intrigued by this. I tried the Gen1 and loved them - I know they've been changed, and I've not had a chance to ski the new version. How do they differ, and what were you trying to achieve by changing them? (I'll try and pop into EchoBase myself in a few weeks to try them )
Btw, very impressed by the Rangers, great skis. Those I also need to take out on a real mountain and push a bit. |
Big question @fix, hope I won't bore you! They differ in quite a few ways for sure. Sidecut, rocker profile and flex are all different but we kept the same philosophy, ie an all mountain ski with a soft snow bias with
minimal camber and an easy to use nature. Kicking off with the sidecut, I wanted a ski that was more versatile and better able to deal with the different snow conditions you get in an average European resort powder day; ie powder in the morning, cut up by lunch then a bit of playing and jibbing in the afternoon. We really focused on easy turn initiation, better hard snow performance, stability in crud and a more natural feeling when skiing and landing switch. We needed a ski you could mount relatively centrally without having the associated tip dive that often comes with this.
So to achieve this we increased the surface area at the tip and tail which accounts for the squared off shape and full sidecut, but kept the radius long at 25m for stability in deeper and
difficult snow. The full sidecut also gives you a lot more confidence in hard and steep terrain, for me they work nicely on piste whilst still being great in powder.
The rocker profile is different now, similar minimal camber underfoot which again makes it easy to start the turn, gives you a natural and easy feel in powder but we extended the tip and
tail to aid floatation with the new progressive mounting point.
The flex is also smoother and more progressive, with a more gradual stiffness change from tail to tip aimed at making the flex smoother and thus more predictable.
So, all in all its a different beast than the original & I'd say the main design traits are more versatility on harder snow, smoother and will suit a wider range of skiers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Interesting - I find it very easy to ski, forgiving and very nimble but I guess it depends what you are used to.
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I guess. It isn't hard to ski at all, it just has a 28 m turn radius and needs to be skied a little. You can't get lazy and let the sidecut do the work.
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For those in the know what's the difference in skiability between r.108 and director?
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You know it makes sense.
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@BobinCH, Director 107mm underfoot v the 108mm Ranger. Director has zero camber v the 2/3mm on the Ranger. The Director has a slightly longer tip rocker but has a tail rocker that's gotta be 300mm long v the flat'ish tail on the Ranger. Running length is therefore shorter on the Director and with the rocker both ends it has a greater soft snow bias. The reduced running length also gives less skin contact on firm snow. Although the lay-up is the same the extra rocker & lack of camber effectively makes the Director feel a little softer flexing. I'd call the Ranger medium stiff & the Director medium. The Director is the more playful. The prices are the same. For a freeride/distance tourer I'd go with the Ranger. For lift served with the occasional skin the Director's great, especially if you do a bit of switch etc. The Director skis shorter of course so you'd need it in the 191cm.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| For those in the know what's the difference in skiability between r.108 and director? |
^ totally different skis... (though define what you mean by "skiability" ?)
In my view the best skis for alpine lift accessed freeride is 100-110mm with subtle tip only rocker. turn radius 22-28m (ish).
Every brand have something in their line up that will tick this box nicely i.e fun on variety of variable snow conditions.
K2 / Fischer / Volkl / Movement / White Dot / Faction / Black Crows / Volkl / Blizzard / Dynastar <etc> all good skis.
If you are "carver" (i.e good technique / ski fast) then the traditional White Dot Ranger 108 is the ski for you.
If you a "slarver" then the more banana shaped White Dot Director might be more fun (it is a good ski and very nimble - but very different).
Also : More burly freeride skis will weigh circa 2kg each.
Modern technology / carbon means that lighter touring focused skis can come in at 1-1.5kg.
This makes a big difference on the way up - however they will "ski light" and be deflected by choppy snow etc.
So if you get a lighter model then be aware of the likely compromise.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Ranger is a firm conditions rocket and plenty fun in soft snow. As Jon sez the Director is just more playful and a little bit bonkers , at least in CL it feels a little bit like a snowblade. I found I've been so long off a flat/square tail ski that I didn't enjoy the ranger in breakable crust compared to something with a bit of tail kick but that's personal choice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This thread is making me want new skis.
My boyfriend has the WD Directors and I really like them, I would probably buy a pair if he didn't already have them, would really like to try the CF version. I tried the Down 106 and really liked it as well but it was (obviously) much lighter than the WDs and harder work in chop, I would buy it if I was wanting a touring specific ski. I would also like to try the Blizzard Zero Gs as I have liked all the Blizzard skis I have tried, they all seemed to have the same smooth, easy to ski but not dull feel.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Went over to Cham on Tuesday and Jim at Echobase sorted me out with the CL R.108's in 186, CL Director in 181 and standard director in 191 to test out. Did 2 laps on each on the Bochard red with a few sorties onto the chalky stuff at the sides. Lets just say the conditions underfoot were "firm"! Not too much that I can to add to the feedback provided above. Directors were fun to ski, with enough stiffness to grip on the rock hard pistes and provided plenty of pop when throwing them around in the chalky stuff. Despite the fact that the tips look really short when you're on them, I actually enjoyed the shorter CL 181 most, not sure if that was the CL or length. The 191 was also fun and easy to ski but I didn't feel I really need the extra length on piste. The Ranger's are a more traditional feel, very smooth and reassuring on the hard pistes and I'm sure would be great for steeper up's and down. Hoping to get back and try the CL 191 Director in some softer conditions to see how the forward mount performs in softer snow. Here's a picture of the skis + my 193 Shiros which illustrates the very forward mounting position of the Director.
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Tried out some dps 112rp from Ski service Ruinettes on Sunday. Wow, awesome skis. The 184 standard construction was really nice, on the pistes and very easy to ski in the 10cm of chop at the side of the pistes. The 192 carbon version had a fair bit more pop, a bigger turn radius and also lots of fun.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Had another go on the Faction CT3.0 and Chapter 106 last week. Definitely prefer the CT 3.0. Wants to be worked but very smooth and reassuring. The chapter felt like it was mounted too far forward and didn't inspire confidence in the powder. Not sure a centre mounted twin tip is for me off piste!
Also tried Skidog's Down CD6 (now Countdown 107). He was ripping up the deep Bruson powder on it. I had it on piste and a bit off the side and must say that it felt great in both. Light with a bit if carbon pop - seems like a good fit for a light freeride touring ski
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FAQ
