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Good, if worrying, summary of the snowfall so far in Europe

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Good summary of the snow situation http://wepowder.com/forum/topic/216808
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
focussed on the southern Alps, which have certainly not been doing well. But the date is not that clear. Talks of current snow in the north - and I don't think there is any?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@pam w, not a lot in Risoul so far.
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That's the second wepowder article I've read (out of 2) that's very long on emotion but pathetically short on facts. Even basic details, Alagna is not in the southern Alps, being more or less the same latitude as Chamonix...etc.

Chamonix is opening early, as are many of the higher stations nearby.

That summary worries me not a bit, except about the journalistic capabilities of the writers.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I don't see anything particularly wrong with the article, obviously more useful and realistic than TO/SCGB/owner reports which are often inaccurate. Alagna is on the south and east of the main alpine ridge and I guess that was what was meant (and this sometimes has more impact than how far South). @Pam W not sure what you mean by current snow in the north. It has a good graphic on the site for the snow fall over the preceeding week which I assume (and seems) to be fairly accurate (no specific proof) and it shows forecasted snow (6 days) and this is showing very little (near zero) new snow like all other current forecasts. I guess the general advice is not to book in these poor snow areas until there is a large snowfall and that seems very sensible advise. In my view probably not worth booking (at the moment) for anything pre-January unless it is very good value and has some high slopes. Anyway you can always check live webcams yourself. Let's hope the forecast snow around the middle of the month comes to something and helps the whole Alps region.
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No good general summary at all, as it is -as mentioned here- and in the title, focused on the South Alps.
90% of the skiing is in the Northern Alps, and why is that....because the North Alps get much more snow
And moreover, what's the use of a summary on December 2? What's there to summarize on December 2?
The season still has to start! Come on, and move along with this virtual crap!
Sorry!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Millom, Chamonix is also south of the Rhone valley and I don't think that was what was meant...

It's December 2 F.F.S.

Every year, same old, same old...nonsense.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
This is from a web blog and a current article. It does not seem to claim to represent snow conditions for the whole season Smile! I would suggest it talks about the southern alps because it addresses areas with less/zero natural snow. It also mentions the above average current snow for Switzerland. It *is* useful for anyone thinking of booking something for the pre-Christmas period to say otherwise is stupid. Obviously the situation may change in the next few weeks but there'll be other articles around the web when it does. By saying "because the North Alps get much more snow" aren't you just making a far worse statement than any in this article. The article talks about the North usually getting more snow in general but also the South sometimes getting some bigger snowfalls and good Autumn snowfalls and it at least talking about current facts.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 2-12-15 13:29; edited 1 time in total
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Disagree, @Millom, I think if you're not "on site" and not very familiar with how snowpacks and seasons evolve, you'd be taking entirely the wrong message.
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I think if you were wondering about a pre-Christmas week in the Dolomites (as someone was here, a few weeks ago, only to be assured by some posters that there would be "no problem" with snow) that article could actually be quite useful.
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@pam w, but as we well know, many folks will take the southern alps to mean all of them... rolling eyes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hi, I'am Morris from wePowder. Good questions and remarks over here. I thought it might be a good idea to give some extra details. @pam w: The article was written yesterday and based on the current snow conditions in the Alps. It is not ment to represent snow conditions for the whole season, but the conditions as they are now. Conditions in the Northern Alps were okay to pretty good last weekend. Which means to say that the current snowpack is in most places as thick or thicker than normal for the time of the year. Especially in the regions northwest of the Eiger and Jungfrau the snowpack is thicker than normal.

The southern Alps though are suffering. Besides the Ortler region (remember the snowfall at the pass stelvio at the end of October?) and the regions close to the main Alpine Ridge the conditions are far from perfect. Since october there has been no significant snowfall in the ski resorts south of the main Alpine Ridge and south of the Ecrins (aka the Southern French Alps). Something which is highly uncommon. Normally we see at least 2 or 3 major events in this region during fall. All these conclusions are based on data which has been collected by Institut für Klimaforschung der Eidgenössischen Technischen Hochschule Zürich, Meteo Swiss, SLF, ZAMG, Meteo France, Remet and wePowder. The dataset does contain precipitation data that has been collected since 1960 in more than 200 points in the Alps.

So therefor I am a bit shocked by the conclusion of @under a new name. Especially his claim that Alagna isn't part of the Southern Alps because of the fact that it has more or less the same latitude as Chamonix. The fact that New York and Madrid are at the same latitude doesn't mean they have the same climate. The same applies for London and Berlin. And although it is just a 3 hour drive from Chamonix to Alagna, the same applies for them.

The climate in Alagna is significant different from the climate in Chamonix. Cham gets it's snow from the west to north west whereas Alagna gets it's snow from the South (west) to East. This is all caused by the Main alpine Ridge. Cham is west of it. Alagna South of it.

I have been driving around the Alps for 20 years now and seen a lot of resorts, storms and micro climates during that period. The only thing I am trying to do is share this knowledge with you. It could help you to score one of those epic powder days.

I personally don't care if you like my conclusions or not. I am not a ski resort who is making money with (fake) snowstats Wink But I do think it is a bit rude to say that I don't have my facts straight before you even checked the facts Razz

Feel free to ask me any questions
May the powder be with you this winter!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, The message is frankly very simple. So what, not everyone can work out that snow cover quality changes during the course of the season? Do the areas mentioned have lots of *current snow*? Who would be taking the "wrong message"? Please enlighten me on how being on-site and familiar with snowpacks and evolving seasons (PR talk/pompous nonsense) helps and what this actually means?


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 2-12-15 13:46; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
When considering where has better/worse snow obviously easier to look at a map of snow fall than consider North/South which I agree can be more confusing.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Millom you're right on this one. I will write an article in which I will explain the differences between Northern, Southern (and western) Alps. This might help.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Morris, welcome to snowheads. snowHead My only query was about the statement that "it's still snowing in the north" whereas in the vast bulk of the area it seems to be mild and (thankfully, with FL over 3000m) dry.

@under a new name, are there some "southern" areas which currently have good snow cover?

As you know, driving through the Fréjus or MB tunnels you can be in two completely different bits of weather. I have driven into Fréjus after miles behind a snowplough at 30 mph to emerge into an Italy entirely brown without a flake in sight.

And Chamonix and Courmayeur have famously different weather.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Pam w, I thought the article had a webcam image for both Monterosa and Courmayeur which showed some ok snow (but not great and a lot less than Chamonix), so I guess they both caught the back-end of the snow from the NW as you would expect.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 2-12-15 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

I have driven into Fréjus after miles behind a snowplough at 30 mph to emerge into an Italy entirely brown without a flake in sight.
@pam w: I had the opposite once. Dry in the Maurienne valley and snow chaos in Bardonecchia Wink

@Langerzug, there are regions in the South that get as much snow as in the North. And don't forget that the biggest dumps do occur on the southern side of the Main Alpine Ridge. Hope this helps: http://wepowder.com/forum/topic/212343
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Pyrenees is good right now.
France and Switzerland are okayish.
Austria and Germany are mixed.
Italy is bad (except Cervinia).

Overall, it's a slightly below-average start to the season across the European Alps.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Morris wrote:
Quote:

I have driven into Fréjus after miles behind a snowplough at 30 mph to emerge into an Italy entirely brown without a flake in sight.
@pam w: I had the opposite once. Dry in the Maurienne valley and snow chaos in Bardonecchia Wink

@Langerzug, there are regions in the South that get as much snow as in the North. And don't forget that the biggest dumps do occur on the southern side of the Main Alpine Ridge. Hope this helps: http://wepowder.com/forum/topic/212343



Good article. And a good way of looking at snowfall through a different lens.

Lech-Zurs-Warth, in west Austria, near St Anton, is widely considered the snowiest ski resort in the Alps, averaging 600-1200cm of snowfall per year, depending on where and how it is measured. Seems to sit at or near a crossroads of north, south, east and west weather systems.

Of course, northern Japan and Washington State, US, resorts get the most average snow worldwide, at 1000-2000cm a year.

And the world's biggest ever 1-day snowfall was in the Apennines, central Italy, not far from Rome, at 250cm puked in a day in Mar 2015 snowHead


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@pam w, @under a new name, I think you're being a little harsh.

wePowder has always been about forecasting POWDER, and where to go at short notice to find it. It's not really aimed at general tourists booking a week holiday long in advance, but more people who are able to drive for a quick weekend when it's good etc. As to Langerzug's why summarise now when the season hasn't started, if you look at the forum's and reports, you'll see that many of wePowders readers have been skiing for a while - taking the opportunity when it comes at short notice to head to a glacier etc.

The day it was posted it was actually still snowing in parts of the Northern Alps (for example, here) - and more importantly in the previous week there was a reasonably good amount of new snow.

Alagna and Cham may be on the same latitude, but they are on different sides of the main alpine ridge, hence getting snow from different directions.

I think Morris generally does a very good job of forecasting where to find powder in each particular week, and find his articles useful and a lot less biased than many other platforms. Also remember he's writing in a foreign language!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I regularly read the wepowder articles during winter time and always find them informative regarding current conditions and upcoming snow potential. I thought the posted article was pretty much self-explanatory and obvious that the reference to the Southern Alps was mainly referring to areas south of the Alpine ridge.

As for an article about different regions in the Alps, that would be quite useful. But shouldn’t this include the Eastern Alps as well or would this region come under North and South?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@clarky999, perhaps.

On re-reading, I see @Morris' point regarding the importance of early season buildup. That's interesting and entirely sensible. Not something I'd noticed as important around Monterosa, but I'm not spending so much time analyzing the weather patterns when we're not there.

I stand by my (perhaps a little pedantic) point that the Pennine Alps are hardly "South" and that asking almost anyone around here where the "Southern" alps were, it wouldn't be Piedmonte or the Dolomites. "Eastern, not so Northern" alps maybe.

It would maybe make more immediate sense if it referred to north and nouth of the main alpine ridge.

As you all well know I get a little aerated at this time of year as the only things that seem to get air time are, "Oh My F G, we're never going to ski again" etc. etc. ad naus.

Of course, I have seen no headlines yet other than on here about "great expectations for early start to season in the alps that are slightly to the north (and west) of the orogenous zones that are often known as the Alps".
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Thanks Morris makes for interesting reading.
From what Ive gathered locally in the Monte Rosa area is if the storm is coming up the valley (south) it is more likely to snow than if it is coming from east, west or north since most of the moisture has been deposited or ranges upstream of the front. (This would make Alagna southern alps, meteorology speaking at least.)
Is this blimmin' El nino thingy responsible for giving us such a weak polar vortex which seems to be the death toll for Italian snow?
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Whitegold wrote:
Pyrenees is good right now.
France and Switzerland are okayish.
Austria and Germany are mixed.
Italy is bad (except Cervinia).

Overall, it's a slightly below-average start to the season across the European Alps.


Slightly above average year-on-year? Very Happy snowHead
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Warm Mild Temps next week +10C at 2400 in Austria. Hardly dipping into Nighttime Freeze level at 3000M
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So far the start is not all too different from last season that turned out very average but with some epic days; if the recent snow arrived 2-3 weeks earlier we would have similar conditions for the opening day as last year and many resorts wouldn't open yet probably. Snow followed by warm temperatures, high pressure and dry spell. Lets see how long it will last this time and what happens next.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Super Steezy you're right. And even within the Monte Rosa area you might see differences. The western valleys get more snow from the south, whereas Alagna gets the best when there is some east in the southern flow.

Regarding El Niño: so far there is no (widely accepted) proven correlation between El Niño and a weak polar vortex although there is some research that does point out that loads of snow in Eurasia in October combined with an Niño event might cause a positive NAO phase in november and december. This is something I am investigating at the moment.

@jimmybog, I will include an eastern flow in the article I will be writing.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Morris, some interest thoughts here on how autumnal Eurasion snow accumulation affects the NAO (mostly in regards to surf forecasting, but probably still relevant:

http://magicseaweed.com/news/can-snowfall-predict-seasonal-surf-trends/8340/

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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Morris, keep up good work, love your website and served me great last year (although for some reason I'm not getting powder alerts in my email and can't seem to get that sorted? Did something change over the Summer?)

Ironically my only difficulty with the website is that my (anglocentric) perspective on reports is often at a loss as to where you are talking about, you use phrases referring to particular parts of the alps but sometimes I don't know where you're talking about and even a google search doesn't reveal the part of the alps in question. Usually the problem is solved because you suggest given resorts to go to in powder alerts. Maybe include a map on the website outlining each of the divisions of the alps you're talking about?

Like I said thanks a million for putting in the effort, I will continue to spread the word and look forward to being guided by you to more freshies this season.
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