 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just bought some new skis and my current plan is to set them up with quiver killers so I can use my standard bindings for day to day stuff and then switch to some touring bindings for when we occasionally go walking.
Because I'll be using the normal apline bindings most of the time I figured the burliness/durability of something like the dukes or barons probably isn't needed and the weight saving would be pretty nice.
It seems plenty of people are happy to use the tours as their only binding but a friend of mine has the barons and they seem to have developed quite a lot of play which kind of negates any benefit in the materials being more solid. My brothers guardians are beginning to go a similar way too after not that much use, hence my quiver killers plan.
What I was hoping to find out was if there was any discernible difference between the f10 and the f12. I currently run a din of about 7.5 but I need new boots which I'm 99% sure will have a shorter bsl so the din might go up a bit. Based on not very much, I've always had a feeling you're not really meant run bindings close to their max din (is there any truth to that?) so was wondering if the f12 might be the better option. The f12 also has the epf which sounded sensible as my new skis are 112 underfoot but I've seen an older post on here saying it made no difference compared to the narrower f10.
This has turned into a slightly longer post than I intended but any advice would be appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's no difference between the 10 & 12 or the std width v the EPF. And neither of them will develop the play that you get in the Duke, Baron or Guardian.
However, the F10 only comes with 90mm brakes so you'd need to buy wider brakes whereas the F12 comes with 110mm brakes which will fit your skis with a slight tweak. So for that reason I'd get the F12.
And I've got both the std F12 & the F12 Tour in both small & large sizes at the right price 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting. How come the f10/12s don't develop play? I thought they had the same mechanism as their royal line but just more plastic in them.
Also, facewest appear to be selling the f10 with brake widths up to 130mm. http://www.facewest.co.uk/Marker-F10.html Do they definitely not come with the wider brakes or do you think their site is just wrong?
A little confused by your last comment too. Did you mean f12 epf rather than the f12 tour? I thought tour was just a blanket name for all the f10/f12 bindings. Or is there a third option I should be considering other than standard or epf?
Thanks
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@spyderjon, You sure about that 90mm thing Jon? My OH has Ranger CL's 108 under foot on her F10's?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| el nombre wrote: |
| Interesting. How come the f10/12s don't develop play? I thought they had the same mechanism as their royal line but just more plastic in them. |
The F10 Tour, F12 Tour & F12 Tour EPF all have the Squire toe & heel mounted on the touring frame whereas the Duke has the Jester toe/heel & the Baron has the Griffon toe/heel. Whilst the Jester/Griffon are 'burlier' bindings they appear to develop more play with use.
| el nombre wrote: |
| ......Also, facewest appear to be selling the f10 with brake widths up to 130mm. http://www.facewest.co.uk/Marker-F10.html Do they definitely not come with the wider brakes or do you think their site is just wrong? |
The F10's only come from Marker with 90mm brakes. F12's & F12 EPF's are the same price & the F10 is £25 less at list price. A dealer can swap the brakes for you if they want (which is what Facewest are doing) but it's always going to be built in to the price otherwise they'll end up with loads of 90mm brakes they can't shift. The Marker 90mm brakes are actually pretty snug, being more like an 87mm, & because the elbow is so short they're a pain to widen with a vice'n'pipe. With wider skis being the norm an 87mm brake is hardly used &, with the fact that the 110mm brakes 'cams in' so well, it means that the narrow brakes are virtually redundant.
If you want to give me that price I'll give you an F12/F12 EPF with two sets of brakes!
| el nombre wrote: |
| ......A little confused by your last comment too. Did you mean f12 epf rather than the f12 tour?..... |
Sorry yes, I meant to say that I've got F12's & F12 EPF's in stock.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@el nombre, I have some f12s non epf and I've used spyderjon and can confirm you won't go far wrong with either of them, both will be spot on.
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I am a little confused with the quiverkiller logic here. If you plan to use touring and regular bindings on the same pair of skis wont they need the same footprint/template ?
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I have a set of F10s in great nic I'll be selling soon, if interested send me a pm 
Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| wideboy wrote: |
| ......Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same. |
+1.
Unless you're big/a high din user/very aggressive/hucking etc then the F10/F12/F12 EPF is a single binding solution.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| wideboy wrote: |
| ......Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same. |
+1.
Unless you're big/a high din user/very aggressive/hucking etc then the F10/F12/F12 EPF is a single binding solution. |
Can you really get away with skiing 90% on piste or around resort with the f10/f12 I'm thinking of a similar set up for a pair of blizzard bushwakers but concerned about how high touring bindings sit above the top of the ski. I have atomic Crimson on protrack bindings and really don't like how high my boot sits above the ski. ( might just be a fussy skier) so just unsure what route is best to take, alpine bindings or touring bindings 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| wideboy wrote: |
| ......Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same. |
+1.
Unless you're big/a high din user/very aggressive/hucking etc then the F10/F12/F12 EPF is a single binding solution. |
Can you really get away with skiing 90% on piste or around resort with the f10/f12 I'm thinking of a similar set up for a pair of blizzard bushwakers but concerned about how high touring bindings sit above the top of the ski. I have atomic Crimson on protrack bindings and really don't like how high my boot sits above the ski. ( might just be a fussy skier) so just unsure what route is best to take, alpine bindings or touring bindings
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| wideboy wrote: |
| ......Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same. |
+1.
Unless you're big/a high din user/very aggressive/hucking etc then the F10/F12/F12 EPF is a single binding solution. |
+1 from me too. I've got F12s on my Coombacks and they're a pretty solid alpine binding. Probably add 15mm height over an alpine binding, but the skis are the limiting factor carrying big angles on hard snow, not the binding. And my knees and b*ll*cks aren't up to hucking big cliffs. I'd suggest mounting them conventionally and seeing how you go. You can always add the quiver killers later.
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@WellySki0009, what don't you like about high your boot sits off the ski? Most rail/plate/binding systems are going to be similar - as I understand it it's usually performance enhancing?
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| ..........Most rail/plate/binding systems are going to be similar - as I understand it it's usually performance enhancing? |
Height is considered to be performance enhancing on hard snow as it gives more leverage and helps pressure the edge but is considered less desirable in soft snow/powder as a low mount gives more stability/pivoting control. It's a compromise and, like most things to do with equipment set-up, some are sensitive to it & some aren't.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @WellySki0009, what don't you like about high your boot sits off the ski? Most rail/plate/binding systems are going to be similar - as I understand it it's usually performance enhancing? |
A disconnection from the ski, if that doesn't sound mad. And also feel a bit like a weeble, with an unbalanced centre of gravity. When I tested the bushwhacker against the Crimson I felt a whole lot more stable, and it was easier to ski.
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Poster: A snowHead
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"Also, I wouldn't bother changing them out for a true alpine binding in between touring trips, they're very solid for resort skiing, to the point I doubt you'll notice the difference, I assume the F12s will be the same."
Couldn't agree more. Did 80 days last year on F10's. Not sure how switching with alpine bindings would have helped.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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+1 @HammondR, my OH's F10's rock-solid underfoot, no need to change them
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