 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all!
I'm hoping for some ski jacket and/or layering advice for the upcoming season. In recent years, I've been mainly skiing in Hokkaido, and the combination of an Icebreaker 200 base layer and a Surfanic Nero jacket (waterproof, all synthetic, insulated) has suited me well. On really cold days (say, -20 C and windy), I would substitute a fleece base layer and add a muffler.
Last year though I moved to Switzerland, and while I'm very happy with the jacket's features, it was way way way too warm for me last season. I ski hot, and sweat easily; the black jacket and the often sunny conditions don't help either. Even with everything ventable venting, and the jacket barely zipped at all, I'm often a sodden mess at the bottom, and then freeze on the lift.
Almost all the skiing I do is on (or near-) piste rather than slogging it up mountains, though I do wear a helmet and usually with a backpack too (for holding change of goggles/sunnies, regular glasses, water, etc. etc.) which of course makes things warmer.
Any suggestions for an alternative jacket or other solution? The ideal, of course, would be something that kept me warm on the lifts, but magically kept me cool and sweat-free on the way down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@halfflat, Welcome to Snowheads
There are quite a few lighter outer shell jackets around now, which work well in both super cold and also warm conditions. All depend on your layering.
Good outer shells are more breathable than insulated jackets and with the correct layers work really well in cold conditions as well, one of the reasons for excess perspiration is using base or mid layers that do not wick it away quickly enough, if your then wearing an insulated jacket you end up wet! So I would suggest not only the correct jacket but some good wicking base layers as well.
we do very well with the Ortovox Guardian and also the La Grave jackets, waterproof and the most breathable jackets on the market, but you have to pay a price for them!!!
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There are some nice jackets on Sport Pursuit at the moment. Don't know if they ship to Switzerland. They have the Arcterex Beta AR at £200 which is a light weight but bomb proof gore tex pro and short enough for skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| livetoski wrote: |
@halfflat, Welcome to Snowheads
There are quite a few lighter outer shell jackets around now, which work well in both super cold and also warm conditions. All depend on your layering.
Good outer shells are more breathable than insulated jackets and with the correct layers work really well in cold conditions as well, one of the reasons for excess perspiration is using base or mid layers that do not wick it away quickly enough, if your then wearing an insulated jacket you end up wet! So I would suggest not only the correct jacket but some good wicking base layers as well.
we do very well with the Ortovox Guardian and also the La Grave jackets, waterproof and the most breathable jackets on the market, but you have to pay a price for them!!! |
listen to Tim - the Ortovox shells and layering systems are the best out there and well worth the money. I cant get enough 
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Try www.gearpest.com. They have some fantastic offers on lightweight jackets and ski wear at the moment. A quick call for advice is a good plan. They know their stuff. Layering is key.
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Thank you all for the welcome and the suggestions!
Based on my love of pockets, I'm leaning towards the Ortovox Guardian (especially given the extraordinary breathability) and perhaps carrying a middle layer in the backpack should I need it. Expensive, but weighing that against the potential comfort and the other costs of skiing, it seems like a good choice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| halfflat wrote: |
Thank you all for the welcome and the suggestions!
I'm leaning towards the Ortovox Guardian ... and perhaps carrying a middle layer in the backpack should I need it. |
Ortovox gear is lovely, but beware making decisions before you try stuff on. Even the best jacket can look rubbish and perform poorly if the fit is wrong. Common problems seem to be....
Buying mail order and therefore not realising that there was a much better fitting jacket from another manufacturer.
Buying a shell jacket large enough to wear 4 layers underneath it, then looking like a sack of potatoes when you wear the jacket over just a long sleeve baselayer on a nice day. Best to try the jacket on with just one midlayer. On the cold days you would be better off wearing your existing insulated jacket.
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Bergans are very good as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Damn Why did I check Sportsprsuit.
Just got a Ortovox swisswool jacket 1/2 price.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Oceanic wrote: |
Ortovox gear is lovely, but beware making decisions before you try stuff on. Even the best jacket can look rubbish and perform poorly if the fit is wrong. Common problems seem to be....
Buying mail order and therefore not realising that there was a much better fitting jacket from another manufacturer.
Buying a shell jacket large enough to wear 4 layers underneath it, then looking like a sack of potatoes when you wear the jacket over just a long sleeve baselayer on a nice day. Best to try the jacket on with just one midlayer. On the cold days you would be better off wearing your existing insulated jacket. |
Sound advice! I'm hoping I can find a local retailer who stocks them, to check fit.
In the past, with the insulated jacket, I think the only time I ever wore a midlayer as well as a baselayer was on a with-wind-chill -40 day. I don't think I'll be skiing in conditions extreme enough to demand four layers! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| PaulC1984 wrote: |
Thats easy, get snow and rock to order a few size in for you to try |
I think Halflatt said that he lives in Switzerland, so I doubt that he will have any trouble finding Ortovox in the shops. When I was in Germany a couple of months ago they stocked Ortovox shells in Intersport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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. . .I sweat like a pig skiing . . the solution - Polartec Power Shield softshells . . .
Rab Baltoro Alpine (now discontinued) or Montane Sabertooth . . .you could buy 4 of these for the price of a Ortovox . . .seriously considering buying one as a back up jacket
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow — haven't been able to find anywhere that stocks Ortovox or Bergans jackets in this half of Switzerland. I may have to take a little trip to Basel...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@halfflat, you are comparing two very different environments.
Your existing jacket is (appears to be) not very technical, not bery breathable, insulated and frankly, not much cop (as you have discovered).
Recommendations are for a technical layering system with appropriate layers in the right places and a waterproof/windproof outer.
A world of difference.
You don't need to go anywhere near high prices to achieve this, e.g. http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-light-jacket-id_8224158.html (mountaineering in Decathlon language means not insulated as far as I can see) and a handful of fleeces and base layers to add as required.
There's a Decathlon near Annemasse and better a Quechua in Passy (Sallanches). Or Patagonia, or Peak ($$$) or any number of brands. I wouldn't personally shop for anything like this in Geneva as it's way cheaper to hit France (and de-tax so saving additional 10% on the way back in).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@halfflat, you are comparing two very different environments.
Your existing jacket is (appears to be) not very technical, not bery breathable, insulated and frankly, not much cop (as you have discovered).
Recommendations are for a technical layering system with appropriate layers in the right places and a waterproof/windproof outer.
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Indeed!
I've a light (non-insulated) jacket for hiking, rated at 5000g/m^2/day breathability, and I know from experience this is very far from sufficiently breathable once things become strenuous. So I've got a firm lower bound on acceptable performance in this regard. My main fear is making a poor compromise: not only are these things not cheap, they're also a pain to try on, test, etc.
No one (I think) wants to overspend, but inasmuch as performance is correlated with pricey materials, I'm happy to err on the side of caution.
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| There's a Decathlon near Annemasse and better a Quechua in Passy (Sallanches). Or Patagonia, or Peak ($$$) or any number of brands. I wouldn't personally shop for anything like this in Geneva as it's way cheaper to hit France (and de-tax so saving additional 10% on the way back in). |
Oh yep. Just looking locally for fit; purchase will be elsewhere, or online! Given the prices here, I feel that showrooming is a matter of financial self-defence.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
they're also a pain to try on, test, etc.
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It took me three entire evenings in Chamonix a few years ago to decide on my current shell, having tried on every jacket in the town that was an acceptable colour.
And two entire evenings to acquire my new down jacket (which is not going to be adequate for the depths of winter, but is refreshingly lightweight and a lot more useable e.g. off tonight to see "Spectre" in Geneva, wearing it despite 14C outside now.)
I am also finding that rather than a fleece (200 weight) which was my usual mid layer, I now have an Arc'teryx Atom jacket underneath which seems able to cope with a much wider range of temperatures - that combination being pretty much the usual day last year. Required -15C and a bit of wind to need anything else, and comfortable right up till spring.
YMMV... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've got one of those jackets, and it is fantastic. I think it is something of an outlier in terms of value for money however. If that particular jacket doesn't fit him, I would be surprised if he could find another full-price jacket that's anywhere near as good for 130 Euros.
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I'm a big fan of Decathlon gear as well but bargains are to be had elsewhere if you shop around. My jacket is a Mountain Equipment Changabang, its just a Goretex shell but bought big enough I put whatever insulation layers I need under it. Got mine for under half regular price from a chap on ebay who sells ME seconds, the only problem was the factory has got a bit carried away with the glue sticking the zip in one of the inner pockets. Took about 2 min work to fix!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
beware making decisions before you try stuff on
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Indeed. I bought a very pretty Haglofs shell, online from Cotswold. It looked terrific with only a base layer underneath. But when I went in to buy a mid layer it transpired that the armholes were so narrow that a fleece mid layer bunched up very uncomfortably - so I left the shell in the shop.
I tried on loads of sailing jackets this last summer before finding one that felt comfortable and where the hood/neck/zip/velcro combination felt right.
Quechua/ Decathlon gear does do what it says on the tin, but the choice for females is a bit rubbish.
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@Mike Pow, does the Quechua Forclaz 400 feature ski pass pocket?
Looking at the pictures it would appear that it doesn't.
That'd be a shame.
I know it's not a dedicated ski jacket, but the faff when skiing lift - served areas would be significant.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@snowglider, a pass on an elastic round your neck can be easily read - and if you ski with more than one jacket the risk of leaving it in the wrong pocket is significant (been there, done that.....)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Any inside (or outside) pocket is OK for the pass, on my Changabang I use the internal map pocket
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davkt, do you have a link or name of the seller on eBay?
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Poster: A snowHead
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FAQ
and cost me 1hr of my 3hr private lessons 
