 Poster: A snowHead
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I hadn't been to the UK for a couple of years, and really noticed the difference when there in Feb - in particular tailgating and people driving far in excess of the speed limit - drivers seemed to be more aggressive than before.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's because our local Councils (all elected bodies paying themselves vast sums of Council Tax) have introduced "Traffic Calming" (in fact the complete opposite - ie driver enraging) measures and have closed off large numbers of roads. Hence, driving anywhere in town is a complete nightmare, builds anger, frustration, high BP etc etc. This anger is expressed when drivers finally hit the "open" road, if they haven't already shot one another. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't know if it was true or not, but I was tld on a 1st aid course that the main cause of death in vehicles with airbags in the drivers fist crashing into their skull because they were crossing their arms on the steering wheel 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Where we live the roads have become almost no go areas to non-cars. We have to walk on the road because of cars on the pavements, then we beeped by drivers who want to drive too fast down those roads, as soon as they get ten yards of open road they accelarate heavily, even if it means subsequent heavy braking. There are fights between drivers because people are using a very narrow road as a two-way rat-run with cars parked down both sides, creating noise and disturbance for those who live there. The local kids can't play outside and get driven everywhere because of the unsafe roads. Half the vehicles are too big for the road as well.
All of that is without a speed bump, camera, or chicane in sight. A few years ago 45% of local residents voted for a barrier to block the rat-run, 35% voted for speed bumps and 15% voted for no measures. The 15% won the vote, obviously.
Drivers don't need excuses to act the way they do, traffic calming just gives some of them one. Seems to me then is that the best thing to improve road safety would for drivers to re-learn a little patience.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Elizabeth B, there's a lot of things about car safety that are going around. Many are urban myths.
If you saw Fifth gear the other week, you'll know that car safety, and the devices used, have saved many lives since they were introduced.
The early nay-sayers about airbags talked about the problems in America where airbags were more powerful, and were causing injuries. This is due to them being a primary restraint system out there. Over here we have seatbelt laws which mean airbags are secondary restraint systems.
The most common injuries in car accidents these days in this country are to the lower limbs, this is due to people survivng accidents, thanks to modern safety and design, where in the past they would have been killed, and their injuries were not important.
Most well designed cars will not deploy airbags in slow speed accidents, in fact some won't even go off below about 30mph. There are also several cars which have variable bags, which will deploy at a level relative to the impact.
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Ooh Foxy
You are so knowledgeable about everything.
Is there nothing that foxes you?
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New Kid In The Block, there are plenty of things that fox me, but that's just cause I haven't taken the time to learn about them or to fully understand them yet.
Oh, and most of my car knowledge comes from "Milestones", a magazine produced by the IAM.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Elizabeth B, I have this strange urge to say Doh!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alan Craggs, why is it cool if I'm not around?
Bad behaviour on piste, in classrooms, etc, is mainly due to bad parenting.
You heard it here first. If a child is brought up by both parents (one male, one female) and is taught values, the concept of right and wrong, and the understanding of rights and responsibilities, then a lot of these issues would go away.
Mock me if you want, but it's true.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Reference was to hats only Mr Hat, I'm sure you're an ultra cool guy  In my day mods wore fur on their anorak collars (or was it the hoods?), not on their hats.
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Trying to get back on track - I think that we agree that, while we are all capable of a few unthinking moments, a minority of people on the pistes are getting a bit less considerate and responsible. So how do we deal with that? Changing parenting values is probably too much of a long-term goal!
I mooted an idea a few posts earlier that there should be a certificate that gives you a discount on your lift pass (say 20%). This should not be confused with a certificate that would prevent you from going on a black run because you are deemed not to be good enough - but is just a certificate to demonstrate that you have passed an assessment of "responsibility" and awareness of certain issues.
Obviously, it will be difficult to devise a meaningful test where people won't just recite the right answers and then go and behave the same way anyway. But even a test that is a formality that needs to be renewed once a year could serve as a gentle reminder to people that skiing is potentially a dangerous activity.
The scheme could be self financing by a modest increase in the non-doscounted lift passes. Resorts that have the scheme could end up being more attractive as they focus on "quality" clientelle.
I am actually surprising myself to be putting this forward as i am ususally dead against such regulation, but if something relatively unobtrusive could help improve the general level of behaviour, is it worth considering?
Just a thought...
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You know it makes sense.
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Alan Craggs, Bit before my time, but just a touch later I seem to remember sporting an Afghan - furry but malodorous from what I remember. For those who haven't encountered an Afghan, it's neither this nor this..... it's this (sort of)...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tony Lane, Apologies for slipping off-piste again!
Anyway, ref. your last comment, there were some resort personnel stopping people on the slopes in Les Arcs this winter... but for good behaviour rather than bad - and awarding certificates. Bit embarassing really! Now if they'd been handing out 50% discount vouchers for the local restaurants, that would be worthwhile!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am one of the oddies who happen to believe education comprises of one part in school and another part in the family.
Thus I am in total agreement with wear the fox hat on the importance of parenting.
A good school needs good parents as well as good teachers to succeed.
Children who are taught discipline to behave at home are unlikely to produce bad behaviours on the slopes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK PG, I'll let you have that one if you can convince us that wearing those on the slopes will lead to an overall improvement in behaviour 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Alan Craggs, be bound to, a return to the days of peace and love is all we need .... love is all you need ...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 20-04-04 18:59; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PG, did you get a certificate??
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tony Lane, Certified, given the occasional ticket, but I've never won so much as a Crackerjack pencil 
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saikee, I hadn't thought of carrying a gun - maybe I'll try that next February - come to think of it some of the Marseillesese might have one handy!
PG, I had an afghan too - very smelly but prettier than the one in your photo. I actually taught a guy from Afghanistan once. Very interesting as he had almost completely round legs (Rickets?), nice guy though.
Wear The Fox Hat, I agree about the basic cause of bad behaviour (bad parenting), but doesn't lack of personal responsibility also have something to do with it? Perhaps ssh could elucidate on the American disease when he wakes up?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Erm... well I think I understand what you're saying about how to overtake a boarder, but really it sounds like what one ought to do when overtaking anyone.
The idea of announcing your presence to the person you intend to overtake, and the mention of different languages, reminded me of an incident on my first ever ski holiday in Les Arcs. We'd just finished a lesson and my friend and I were making our way back down a green slope, both of us snowploughing in wide S turns and obviously complete beginners. It'd been a good lesson, I was quite pleased with the progress I'd made, and was happily bumbling along thinking how wonderful this skiing lark was when suddenly the word "attencion!" was yelled at me from behind. It frightened the living daylights out of me, and I instinctively tried to stop but ended up in a heap - then my friend fell over me. (The guy was going like a bat out of hell BTW).
That led me to believe that announcing your presence may not always be such a good idea!
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No, I can see that. I think it's when and how that's important. You shouldn't need to on a normal piste as it's up to you to give them enough room. On a track, if you're catching someone up, a gentle call of "on the right" (for instance) or some other way of doing it (if you're shy, pretend to sneeze) when on the side of the track you wish to pass on, should do a reasonable job. It won't *always* work, but it makes things a little easier.
It is a bit like passing anyone, esp. as a skier will need some room to go into a snowplough (or turn) if they want to slow down, but, and this is a personal thing, I find it easier to know where a skier's skis will go on a track than what a boarder will need. So I'm more careful with them, now.
It's not necessarily dangerous, but it can be very annoying to be forced to stop on a long, slow track, especially early on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PG, We occasionally see gendarmes on the piste here, but they're often more dangerous than the people they're supposed to be policing. They seem to treat it as a paid ski-ing day, and never stop when they see an accident.
There has been some discussion about the definition of control: it seems to me that if you're ski-ing too fast to take in what's going on around you then you're ski-ing beyond your limits and should slow down. Today I saw a number of young boys/men shussing straight down the glacier - I know it's not steep, but still ...
In control and slow are not always the same thing, it all depends on your techinical limits.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| easiski wrote: |
| There has been some discussion about the definition of control: it seems to me that if you're ski-ing too fast to take in what's going on around you then you're ski-ing beyond your limits and should slow down. |
I agree but due to advances in equipment, it is now relatively easy for someone with minimal experience to feel confident on red runs and therefore convince themselves that they are in control - in fact they probably are in control most of the time because there may not be much to worry about. But if they encounter moguls or ice or a mass of slower skiers on a favourite run for the first time, they need to reign themselves back. Sensible people do this anyway for reasons of self-preservation as well as consideration for others but I am sure that we have all experienced the "holiday adrenalin" that can inhibit that instinct.
We will all make mistakes and that is not bad bahaviour. Nor is not realising that getting too close to a boarder on a cat track is a bit more of a problem than for a skier. But when someone is consistently out of control and not doing anything to prevent it, that is bad bahaviour. What i would like to know, is how do the US piste police differentiate between momentary lapses of judgement on the one hand and reckless idiocy on the other, before they confiscate your lift pass? Does anyone know how it really works in practice?
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FAQ
)at less than 10mph and set off airbags, seatbelt tensioners etc - I had bruised ribs and a wrenched shoulder, burn marks on my coat and covered in glass. It wrote the car off. If the car hadn't had all those "safety" features we'd still be driving the car and I wouldn't have had painful breathing for a fortnight 
