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Help choosing first skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all

I'm 18 and have been skiing for around 10 years and am looking to buy my first skis.
I'm an all mountain skier with a 50/50 on/off piste bias. I've been looking at a number of skis but have a few concerns about each of them and need help deciding. I'm looking for something between 85 and 90mm underfoot that will hold an edge well but something which will still be usable off piste through trees and bumps. The skis I'm considering are:

Blizzard brahma (not sure if it will be too stiff for me I'm 180cm and 165lbs)
Black crows ova
Black crows orb
Dynastar powertrack 84/89
Salomon Q85/Q90.

I ski in the Alps usually early January and would appreciate any recommendations/advice

thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Also now considering K2 iKonic 85 ti
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you're really skiing 50/50 on/off I'd look wider, around 100mm and up. For Black Crows, the Camox or Atris. The Nordica Soul Rider is also excellent, and really holds an edge.

TBH if you said 50/50 on/off with no other info, I'd say around 110mm, which is a real 50/50 compromise IMO. Anything less is really quite biased to pistes. However it seems you prefer narrower skis generally.
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I have reservations about wider skis because it can get pretty icy around where I usually ski and I'd be looking for a one ski quiver which could handle this too.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@clarky999, now, really, "anything less biased pistes"?

So why are so many tourers and off piste guides still around 80-90mm (at least in Chamonix, although it's a pussy place, not at a hardcore)?
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If it's truly 50/50 on/off I would look a tad wider - the Nordica Soul Rider is superb and would be my choice, though would look at the Enforcer too, maybe Bonafide over the Brahma, Faction Candide 2.0?

@under a new name, I guess that could be the touring element? My touring skis are 85mmish for icy traverses etc, but a 50/50 ski solely for the down I would look more in the 95-100mm range personally. Horses for courses!


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 22-10-15 18:48; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@under a new name, was supposed to read along the lines 'is more biased to onpiste than off.' Which is true IMO.

I don't know - I don't ski in Chamonix. Everyone I know around here who tours to ski (i.e., not just cruising along 20° slopes for exercise and happy little bouncy turns or doing genuinely long 2k+ uphill a day) use fat skis - even those who tour more than they ride lifts.

Perhaps as Cham is higher they need lighter skis as it's too hard work (I don't buy that, I climbed Gran Paradiso on 120mm skis); perhaps Cham gets more wind so they ski more wind-scoured steeps (the ONLY condition you might want something narrower than 100mm offpiste - and I grant you that long exposed sidehilling uphill is quite nerve-wracking on fat skis). Perhaps Cham just gets less snow wink, or maybe they just prefer old school short turns?

HOWEVER, if you look at the Cham guys like Tom Grant, Ross Hewitt and Ben Briggs - the ones who are really skiing as well as climbing a lot, they use skis over 100m. Hewitt took 108mm skis to Baffin Island, where they had to climb EVERYTHING they skied. Why?

Quote:
Anyone who knows me quickly comes to realise that I am really choosy about kit. The engineer in me looks for a well design product and the realist looks for a product that is robust and won’t let me down. On those big mountain steeps, you will only get away with kit failure if your really lucky and you never know when your luck will run out. Skiing is also a sport about sensations, and skis have to deliver a special combination of power, grip, dampening, agility and stability in just the right amounts to cut it. My skiing developed from an alpine slalom racing background to freeride and big mountain steep skiing. I’m definitely not into lightweight racing kit for ski touring and the chattery feel of those matchsticks. I’d rather put a bit more effort in on the up to be able to blast on the down without the worry of ripping the binding out or snapping a ski.

I wanted a ski that was reasonably stiff, had tip rocker a for forgiving nature, a classic tail for powering out of turns and edging, and at just over 4 kg for the pair light enough to do 1000 m a day, day in day out. This is a ski that likes to charge, and the harder you push the more impressed would will be with it stability as it shows its calibre. You can ski pow with dustbin lids but when its variable, crusty or firm then you start to appreciate the all round abilities. Its like a Mantra but with an extra 10 mm under foot fun added.

http://rosshewitt.net/2014/10/13/black-crows-2015-corvus-review

But are there really that many guides on 80-90mm skis?

Arguably La Grave's best known guide (Joe Vallone) uses 107mm Dynastars as his everyday ski, and offpisteskiing seems to like his 108mm WD Rangers.

But answer me this: Why WOULD you want anything under 100m for offpiste?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'd agree with Clarky. My personal take is that anything above ~105-110 starts to be a bit of a compromise on piste, but anything under 100 you lose out significantly in the soft stuff. Obviously other factors such as stiffness and shaping come into play but this seems to hold fairly true on most skis for me.

Another question to ask yourself is are you skiing for the offpiste or the piste? I spend a fair amount of time on piste but I am skiing for the soft stuff so although I realistically spend 30% of my time on piste I have no concerns about riding a 115mm ski for most of my skiing.

Proper touring for distance - yes I'd go narrower, but this is a compromise so that the uphill is easier. If touring for turns I ski 107-120 depending on the day. My 'do everything' skis are 107 and 115mm (Praxis Freeride and GPO) but I was very tempted by the WD R108.
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To clarify I'm not doing touring or deep powder backcountry skiing.

I am looking for something manoeuvrable as I spend a lot of time hopping through trees from one piste to another - I am not a serious off piste skier as I assume those of you suggesting 100mm+ skis are.

I would appreciate comments on the skis I mentioned based on this and other recommendations in the 80-90mm waist width category.

Thanks
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@patrick12345, If you're set on 80-90mm, Brahma are great, but yes are at the stiffer end of the scale, Nordica NRGY 90, Faction CT 1.0 would be my picks.

Edit: Though I would still consider something 95mmish - Atomic Vantage 90/95c?
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Thanks for the suggestions.

Bearing in mind I'm 180cm and 165lbs do you think that these might be a bit more accessible than the blizzards (which I have heard are very demanding)? I'm open minded to going a little over 90mm but don't want to sacrifice on piste performance as I spend a lot of time carving on fast blacks (those who know Val D'Isère will know the face can get pretty icy).

What are your thoughts on Rossi experience 88 and dynastar power track 89 also?

Thanks
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I just wonder how we all managed to ski on our skinny skis 20 years ago.

And how did we ever manage a bit further back before the grooming machines mowed the pistes every night.

Everybody seems to have a helicopter these days.
@patrick12345, go for about 80mm wide .. that's wide enough for first skis.

You can always buy another pair next year if you find you're in the deep fluffy powder so much.
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The way to chose is go to that shop in Val d'Isere next to the Morris Pub and say I'd like to buy a pair of skis at the end of the week but I want to try all the good stuff first.

They let me do that in 1996 .. and I'm sure they will still do it.

It's the only way to know you've got the right boards.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Patrick, I haven't skied any of the options on your list so would be reluctant to make a recommendation (apart from going wider Smile). However, from your list I'd probably look closest at the Dynastar Powertrack 89 which sounds like a good versatile option with a good bit of rocker in the tip to keep it manageable offpiste and in the trees.

The brahmas sound like they would be the best of the bunch on piste but I suspect they demand to be skied hard and would not be as versatile / maneuverable in the trees.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've tested some in Val over the years but am skiing Zell am See this season and am looking to buy some before I head out there.

The dynastars are looking probably the most promising for me at the moment.

The black crows orb seemed pretty good for me also but I think the 168cm would be too short whilst the 179 would be a little too long for me. Would appreciate feedback on this too, thanks.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@clarky999, my honest suggestion is just that age gap thing. i.e. There are lots of older CHX guides who aren't so influenced by fashion.

Although a lot of the Cham based guiding (I am told, as I am not a guide) is much more mountaineering based than skinning to ski, if you know what I mean.

As you well know, I am a curmudgeonly dinosaur, but given how well a pair of 3G Spitfires, (170cm 88mm under waist) performed in some super light NY powder in Val d'Isere a few years ago (yes, big GS high speed powder burning) I am still convinced that for most people, most of the time, (not, I hasten to add, yourself, I've seen your vids Happy ) big fat skis are a poor plan and lack of technique is being compensated for, possibly poorly.

snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@patrick12345, you could also reasonably look at Blizzard Bonafides.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@patrick12345, I'm very similar height/weight and have loved the Brahma on piste (i'll be skiing their narrower cousin the LatiGo on piste this season) but i've never used them off piste for a substantial time, I'd guess they'd be great but would need to be skied at pace, quite hard. The Soul Rider stands out to me as something that would give you superb edge grip on, but great off - if I wanted one ski to do it all I'd be looking at this.
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Reluctant to jump to a 98mm ski given that I usually ski 80mm ones which don't fair too badly through trees themselves.

The K2 iKonic 85 looks to be a good transition ski, or perhaps the powertrack 89.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@under a new name, I think you're right re. the age gap, and also the mountaineering.

I think you're also right that a lot of people are skiing skis too fat for what they do - but that's down to being honest about what they actually are skiing, rather than poor recommendations, IMO. With the OP's later clarification, for sure 110mm skis would be stupid, but if someone genuinely does ski 50/50 then that's still what I'D reccomend.

I'd also agree about the technique, but OTOH... We're lucky enough to ski a lot. If someone only skis one week a year, unless they've already done seasons etc in the past, I think it's unlikely they'll ever really get the technique really spot on and fat skis are probably the only way they'll ever enjoy offpiste (not bagging on holiday skiers btw - I know plenty who are very very good, but also normally ski 2/3+ weeks a year and/or skied more often in the past).

-------

@patrick12345, I've owned both the predecessors to the Dynastar Powertrack 89 - the Legend 8000 and Sultan 85. Both were brilliant skis, so I'm sure the Powertracks are too. Dynasty build quality is very good.

If you have the chance to demo, I think you should still try out the Soul Rider, as the edge grip is WAY better than you'd expect (high quality Nordica cores). If you don't have the demo option, then the Powertrack would definitely be a safer choice.
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@patrick12345, if you haven't before, and especially if you've only ever been hiring low-mid spec rentals, I suggest you try to test some skis 90-100mm as suggested by various others (even if its at a snowdome). I bought my first skis last year, and was surprised how good the wider skis were on piste in comparison. I'd been looking at 80-85mm initially, but ended up with 95.

If you're worried about icey conditions, I'd propose that sharp edges would make more than 10mm difference in waist. In retrospect I very much doubt all those hire skis I was on were that well tuned.
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