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Where to wear a transceiver?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just bought a North Face Free Thinker bib and I was half considering putting my transceiver in the large chest pocket to make it easier to reach in a pinch as the bib practically reaches my neck. Anyone got any thoughts on this?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Transceivers are designed to be carried in their purpose built harnesses, partly so they can't be readily separated from the wearer, but mostly so when searching, they're still attached.......
Your choice, convenience over safety.......
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I guess I should worry about my own first Little Angel
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As mentioned the manufacturers harness is the best place, but some bibs/trousers now have 'Beacon' pockets with a built in loop to attach the beacon.

The standing recommendation to have 30-40cm separation between the beacon and any metal/electronics makes it difficult if the beacon is centre mounted on the chest. A mobile in your chest pocket sitting over your beacon is never a good idea, even if the phone is in flight mode, or off. The next time you do a beacon test try placing your phone on your transmitting beacon, then see how the range is effected.

However, the most important requirement is to have good separation from any metal/electronics when in search mode.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The transever should be in its harness. My old bca had a crap harness and after breaking my ribs in a fall I chopped the harness off and took to carrying it in an inside pocket, but it's vital that you don't part company with the unit in the event of an avalanche. If you put it in a chest pocket of some ski pants it should be fine but it's your call. I now have a pulse with a good harness which I now use.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 20-10-15 11:09; edited 1 time in total
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If you lose it from within your bib pocket then the chances are they'll find you in more than one location. I'd still go with the harness.
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I used to wear mine in its case in my Snowpulse back pack...until the shovel smashed the screen, I guess thats a little closer than the separation mentioned above.
Still weary of the chest position as ex snowboarder with cracked ribs and not figuring loosing sack in an avi, but didn't gen up on metallic objects so might think again.
Its just all a bit cumbersome loaded on the front.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The only place you should wear them for a couple of reasons is in the harness under you jacket. This is because in the event of an avalanche it is not uncommon for backpacks or even clothing to be ripped off (not much use if its in a rucksack 50m from where you're buried). The main reason is though in the event of a multiple burial when they do find you they know where your tranceiver is and can switch it off, having to search through your pockets and backpack to find it is adding on critical extra time that should be used to find other victims.
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Quote:

The only place you should wear them for a couple of reasons is in the harness under you jacket.

Having said that, I've seen a lot of guides wear them in bib or ski pants pockets. And they are the ones who are most at risk of being caught as they lead (I think it says in "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" that 90% of people caught in slides went first).
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Agreed in the harness and away from the mobile, there is a bit of a worrying trend though by garment manufactures to have transceiver pockets in their jackets or even pants !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I agree tranceiver need to on chest in harness but carrying mobile anywhere else apart from chest pocket is a pain. That said its safety first so good reminder this to try phone in a trouser pocket next season.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Harness all the way for me. I have the Ortovox abs and it has a really handy pocket on the waist strap for your phone thats 40cm from your transceiver Happy
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Guide I skied with one week wore his quite high in his sternum. It looked a bit odd so I asked why. He said it was close to his mouth. If he was being located by his transceiver and wanted to have his airway cleared as quick as possible it made sense to have the search point, the transceiver, relatively close to his mouth.

I wear mine in the harness it came with, usually on my side. If I'm worried about my phone (and I still not 100% sure if I need to be) that should go in to my backpack, not my transceiver.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

If I'm worried about my phone (and I still not 100% sure if I need to be) that should go in to my backpack, not my transceiver.


@rob@rar, Me too, but its a right pain getting ABS on and off! wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Markymark29 wrote:
Quote:

If I'm worried about my phone (and I still not 100% sure if I need to be) that should go in to my backpack, not my transceiver.


@rob@rar, Me too, but its a right pain getting ABS on and off! wink


Which abs do you have?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Best pocket in the world Happy

http://shop.snowshepherd.co.uk/WebRoot/Store2/Shops/es122028/51A7/1ABE/9551/757F/C98C/0A0F/1118/52ED/ortovox_abs_belt_1.jpg
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@PaulC1984, Vario 18L.....its the leg strap thing. First world problems eh?! wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ah yes they dont have the pocket on the waist, lovely packs though! - Still at least you have a nice new ortovox jacket to wear this winter Happy
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@PaulC1984, It's raring to go, really impressed with it, cheers! wink
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar wrote:
Guide I skied with one week wore his quite high in his sternum. It looked a bit odd so I asked why. He said it was close to his mouth. If he was being located by his transceiver and wanted to have his airway cleared as quick as possible it made sense to have the search point, the transceiver, relatively close to his mouth.

I'n not sure about that logic - avalanche probe in the eye, spade blade in the head. It isn't far to dig from my waistband to my airway.
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Chamcham wrote:
I'n not sure about that logic - avalanche probe in the eye, spade blade in the head.
Compared to asphyxiation I'd say those are small prices to pay.
Chamcham wrote:
It isn't far to dig from my waistband to my airway.
Are you sure? Time can be a critical factor, as in life or death critical.
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Chamcham wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Guide I skied with one week wore his quite high in his sternum. It looked a bit odd so I asked why. He said it was close to his mouth. If he was being located by his transceiver and wanted to have his airway cleared as quick as possible it made sense to have the search point, the transceiver, relatively close to his mouth.

I'n not sure about that logic - avalanche probe in the eye, spade blade in the head. It isn't far to dig from my waistband to my airway.


Full face helmet, problem sorted....

No to tread away from the topic, but do people think a full face (Ruroc) helmet would be an advantage (ie keep snow away from your mouth) of a disadvantage (the face guard will shovel it up there) in an avalanche.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@PaulC1984, I would be worried about having my head ripped off.
I spoke to a girl who had been buried in an avalanche, what she said frightened me, once the snow stopped moving she was unable to even blink her open eyes, and the five or six mins she was buried seemed like hours. Luckily she was skiing with a couple of piste rescue guys, they had let her ski down first! I'll see if I can find the video.
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PaulC1984 wrote:
... do people think a full face (Ruroc) helmet would be an advantage (ie keep snow away from your mouth) of a disadvantage (the face guard will shovel it up there) in an avalanche.
Never been in an avalanche, but I suspect that snow will get in everywhere, so I doubt a full face helmet will make much of a difference. I once had a high speed crash skiing in powder and when I stopped cartwheeling my mouth was full of snow. Very unpleasant experience.
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I thought the general view on full face helmets is that they are a liability (rotational forces on neck) which is only outweighed if either
a) you are skiing gates
b) you huck off massive drops a lot (mainly to protect your face from your knees)

Would have thought the rotation thing could be nasty in a cartwheeling avalanche scenario
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Indeed, I have a ruroc and love it, I dont ski slow and play in the park on occassions so could see the value in the full face. However ive just bought a POC rec backcounty as my ruroc was too warm for offpiste last year, which got me thinking about whether the full face would make much difference in an av. Ill wear a face mask anyway to keep the hooter warm, so hopefully it would keep snow out if the worst happened. rolling eyes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Having seen people ski wearing glasses and visor helmets off piste/powder. In light powder or in a fall, their visors just fill up and pack with snow. I would expect a full face to do similar is a face plant/avalanche situation.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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The visors and jaw protectors are normally 'self sacrificing' and designed to break off under x force.

There are several documented accounts of them providing air pockets to pinned kayakers (picture going off a drop, landing too vertically, and the nose of your boat getting stuck on a rock/tree/the bottom, pinning you vertically with the water pouring off the drop holding you firmly in position underwater).

I doubt they'd help in an avalanche - if anything they'd impede access to clear snow off your face/out of your throat.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
RuRoc helmets things are not "full face" in the sense most people use the term. Specifically the bit in front of your chin is not structural/ protective. So by all means wear those, but don't expect any additional "safety" from them. Their googles... are goggles, not a visor. So they're no different from a standard helmet.

Perhaps your avalanche nightmares are different from mine. In BC you're probably dead because you're under about a thousand tons of cement, or because you were carried over a huge cliff, or because you've been strained through the trees. The idea of a helmet making a lot of difference, full face or otherwise, is interesting. Is there any evidence for such an idea?

I've used helmets with visors in over-the-head powder and they're not great. There's nothing to stop them being ripped off from the bottom upwards in a rag-doll event, never mind a slide. If you used a full-face helmet, which seems logical for safety freaks, then perhaps the visor may be more secure but I doubt it. Again, is there any evidence of people in slides with such things?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rob@rar wrote:
Guide I skied with one week wore his quite high in his sternum. It looked a bit odd so I asked why. He said it was close to his mouth. If he was being located by his transceiver and wanted to have his airway cleared as quick as possible it made sense to have the search point, the transceiver, relatively close to his mouth.

I wear mine in the harness it came with, usually on my side. If I'm worried about my phone (and I still not 100% sure if I need to be) that should go in to my backpack, not my transceiver.


I was with an Aspirant Guide in Argentiere for 3 days this year who had just come off his 5 year contract with PGHM who said in his experience he had seen several fatal recoveries were the transceiver had been substantially compromised by proximity to a phone. Was enough to make me think again about where phone should go and whether on/off etc, pending conclusive evidence (i.e. I am wary of US centric studies as I believe their Mobile frequencies are generally different form ours.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
PaulC1984 wrote:
... do people think a full face (Ruroc) helmet would be an advantage (ie keep snow away from your mouth) of a disadvantage (the face guard will shovel it up there) in an avalanche.
I once had a high speed crash skiing in powder and when I stopped cartwheeling my mouth was full of snow. Very unpleasant experience.


+1, the those few seconds when you realise you can't actually breathe are a little unnerving........
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are all sorts of things which can cause interference, and either block or reduced accuracy. Such as phones, radios, heated gloves, Gopros, mp3 players, energy gels in foil, magnetic jacket/pant buttons, even pace makers etc.

The excellent Beacon Reviews site has a lot of information, including this Interference page:

http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Interference.asp

A couple of others from the Mammut Avalanche Safety site. All transceivers suffer from this sort of interference to a greater or lesser extent, it is just that they either don't or can't display what is happening.

http://www.mammutavalanchesafety.com/2014/07/my-gu-packets-interfere-with-my-beacon.html

http://www.mammutavalanchesafety.com/2012/10/mammut-pulse-457-send-failure.html
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
[quote="philwig"]RuRoc helmets things are not "full face" in the sense most people use the term. Specifically the bit in front of your chin is not structural/ protective. So by all means wear those, but don't expect any additional "safety" from them. Their googles... are goggles, not a visor. So they're no different from a standard helmet.

Perhaps your avalanche nightmares are different from mine. In BC you're probably dead because you're under about a thousand tons of cement, or because you were carried over a huge cliff, or because you've been strained through the trees. The idea of a helmet making a lot of difference, full face or otherwise, is interesting. Is there any evidence for such an idea?

I've used helmets with visors in over-the-head powder and they're not great. There's nothing to stop them being ripped off from the bottom upwards in a rag-doll event, never mind a slide. If you used a full-face helmet, which seems logical for safety freaks, then perhaps the visor may be more secure but I doubt it. Again, is there any evidence of people in slides with such things?[/quote

Im a bit of a safety freak i must admit. coming from a racing background you just get used to wearing helmets and now with having a son I take that extra bit of safety. Im not into the whole 'You must wear a helmet' preaching. Its personal choice. For me, I'f I'm going to hit my head, a helmet will soften the blow to some degree, how much to me is irrelevant. Those who continually state helmets are a waste of time should pick up a rock, smash it against their head and allow darwins theory to do the rest Happy
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Quote:

The idea of a helmet making a lot of difference, full face or otherwise, is interesting. Is there any evidence for such an idea?


I don't know of any good evidence only that a significant % of avalanche fatalities result from head injuries rather than suffocation (tree straining a good example!). I'm totally on board with the idea that ski helmets are not going to much for you if your head hits something hard at 20mph but I suspect some of those head injury fatalities will be glancing or slower speed blows where a helmet would make a difference?

Quote:

RuRoc helmets things are not "full face" in the sense most people use the term. Specifically the bit in front of your chin is not structural/ protective.

So it's just a fashion statement?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Transceiver harness - looks good when you take your jacket off in the bar Smile
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@PowderAdict, Interesting point. As a diabetic I often have energy gels in my pockets, they are on the opposite side to my beacon though.
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My beacon is in my bib top right pocket with the lanyard attached to the suspenders. The reason for this choice is that I have a radio turned on in the top left jacket pocket. When I don't need a radio I use the supplied harness.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Doesn't it get a bit cold skiing in suspenders? The mind boggles! Laughing
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@Markymark29, There's no feeling like a frostbiten back bottom Toofy Grin
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I love how this site changed a word rhyming with farce to back bottom.
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