 Poster: A snowHead
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@Richard_Sideways,
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@jedster, and would you expect to be financially ruined should you be considered by someone to be the perpetrator of someones accident?
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"considered"? Clearly not if it was simply one persons point of view or that it was a genuine mistake that fell short of recklessness but but if it was proven in a court of law that I was reckless AND I hadn't insured myself properly then yes. Absolutely. People need to take responsibility for their actions. Full stop.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Incidentally it would never happen because
a) I am never reckless on skis (I take calculated risks with my own safety but I don't feel I have the right to take even calculated risks with other people's let alone reckless risks)
b) I am insured
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jedster wrote: |
a) I am never reckless on skis |
Easy to say. I presume you are old and wise, not young and carefree?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Interesting title but rather weird posts from the OP? The epitome of vagueness. 10 mins of my life gone for ever.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Easy to say. I presume you are old and wise, not young and carefree?
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"carefree" is hardly a defence for threatening other people's health is it?
Reckless implies knowing disregard for the risks you are imposing on other people. Consider that definition. Youth is not an excuse. I've taken unwise risks at times (including some proper out of my depth escapades in the mountains when I was younger) but they've always fallen short of that.
But if you scream down a blue run at the end of the day choosing a line that means if the child in front turns you will hit them at speed then you deserve the full weight of the law if your luck fails you. If you are not prepared to manage your behaviour within that constraint don't ski. Simple.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It is WAAAAAY too early in the season for this thread.
Keep yer powder dry until we hook a proper fish boys.
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Snowheads should have a 'flouncieo' of the year award.
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@ansta1, prime idea. needs its own, new thread away from this nonsense 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Keep yer powder dry until we hook a proper fish boys. |
I've got this weird image of shooting a shooting a dangling salmon with a musket.
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@laundryman, have you considered consulting a psychiatrist about this?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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http://www.planetski.eu/news/7716
A speeding skier who crashed into & injured a German tourist on a piste in Verbier has been convicted and fined. Should more be done about dangerous skiers? NEW
A speeding skier crashed into a German skier on piste in Verbier in March 2014.
The man hit the German skier from behind, dislocating his shoulder and breaking a bone.
According to Le News, a Swiss news website in English, the skier was convicted of "simple bodily injury".
He was given a 15-day fine of 70 CHF (£50) a day plus an additional fine of 300 CHF (£212).
The skier at fault, who suffered a broken ankle in the collision, was prosecuted after the German filed a complaint against him.
The identities of the two men have not been made public.
The Bas-Valais prosecutor, Patrick Burkhalter, told Le News that he had based his judgment on the International Ski Federation (FIS) Code of Conduct.
One of the cardinal rules is that a skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger those ahead.
Another is that skiers and snowboarders must be in control and adapt their speed according to their ability and the particular conditions and terrain.
Quoting from the prosecutor's summary, Le News says the skier "was skiing faster than his visible stopping distance allowed and did not give priority to the skier ahead of him".
It says the convicted skier could see the person ahead, but it was not possible for the German tourist to see him.
According to Le News, every year 40,000 accidents are recording in Switzerland.
Just 9 percent involve collisions and only 4 or 5 end up in court.
It raises the whole issue of people who ski out of control and what level of responsibilty they should take.
It is interesting that this case was a private prosecution and not one brought by the authorities.
Some accuse resort authorities of sweeping the issue under the carpet and claim they are reluctant to prosecute in some instances.
Some believe the mountains are a place of freedom and oppose speed limits or so-called piste policemen to prevent people skiing too fast.
Others say that no-one has the right to injure people and ski out of control.
What's your view?
Feel free to join the debate on the PlanetSKI Facebook page.
Some of the comments on Facebook have been made with passion.
Here are just a few of the comments:
... Definitely if they are negligent. And now with many people having helm cams you should be able to prove what happened more easily. Although that doesn't always work (think cycle incidents in the UK).
... Never mind prosecuting them. Just really kick the poo-poo out of them.
.... My husband was taken off his feet on a blue run by a child skiing way too fast. The child was part of a group of children following their adult leader who was skiing very fast and they were all trying to keep up. He was clearly showing off in front of the children; he was by far the better skier. Luckily no one was hurt but my husband was very angry and told the guy in charge how f*****g irresponsible he was being going so fast down a blue run. There were a lot of beginners on that run too so it was an accident waiting to happen. We saw them later and I think he had got the message.
.... Yes! Mind it would also be good if people also took note of rule 5 - namely also looking uphill before they set off. The number of times I've seen (and avoided!) people just start off without looking uphill and then complain the uphill skier was the issue!
.... Agree.....and, that is why the uphill skier shouldn't be going too fast, so they can see what's going on....they need to have time to react to beginners...we were all one once!
.... Which is why I said avoided. Too fast is subjective, in control is key and being aware that for example beginners can do anything and need more space. Mind doesn't stop beginners being taught to look uphill first - i know I was. In fairness to people that are still beginners, in my experience they tend not to be the ones that start and dont look!
.... Especially on blue runs. Nothing more annoying that trying to guide a beginner with confidence issues down a narrow blue than to have fast skiers tearing down each side. If they think they are competent enough to ski at speed do it on the red or black and not on the green and blues. Especially bad at the end of the day.
.... Not sure why there should be a lack of personal responsibility in the mountains any more than in the cities. If you wilfully charge into someone in the queue for morning coffee and break their leg, how is that different to skiing 'outside of your control'. this is not the same as 'genuine' accidents - challenge is usually to determine the level of intent on the part of the guilty - presumably in the original story the private prosecution has a lower burden of proof, or can resolve on the basis of actual injury, rather than criminal intent.
Some resorts in Europe have areas for slow skiing but people's speed and control is policed more in North America.
In some resorts the piste patrol is out at busy sections and other areas are declared 'slow zones'.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah the usual uninformed bs in the comments section imputing ( non existent) special rules for beginners, running roughshod over the full FIS code in dogged pursuit of the uphill skier etcetc.
BTW Not that I'm saying people shouldn't be pursued for reckless crashes into people but a £900 fine out of a civil prosecution seems not much return for the effort.
Q - what's the difference between out on control and a " genuine accident"? The 2 tend to be related.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Q - what's the difference between out on control and a " genuine accident"? The 2 tend to be related. |
Quite, sometimes it's like people think that someone who is out of control is doing so purposefully. Skiing is difficult when you start, just because someone is out of control doesn't mean that they're doing so recklessly.
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You know it makes sense.
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When I started skiing (late seventies) everyone had the code drilled into them. If anyone was seen to be a danger to others then they got called out. Literally shouted at by their peers. We need more of this now. We don't need an after the incident blame culture. We need pro active bollicking. Ambulance chasers and mountains don't mix for me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Not every out of control skier is reckless, but a good number are. When an American judge sentenced a skier who had caused the death of a girl who had been standing still at the side of a piste he took into account the fact that he was a skilled and experienced skier (I think, from memory, he had been running a lift, in the pay of the resort). And therefore had the capability to ski without crashing into somebody. You can be a reckless and over-confident beginner, straightlining a green slope and building up more speed than you are capable of controlling. Someone in that situation who causes death or serious injury is also culpable, assuming that he had the basic skill to descend the slope with controlled snow plough turns. The parent in charge of an 8 year old in "racing snowplough" who permanently destroyed the knee of somebody I know (who was also stationary at the side of the piste at the time) was also culpable.
Most of us have been guilty at times of "skiing without due care and attention" as we have driving, but most of us got away with it. Doesn't make it right though and yes, it deserves a bollocking.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
Was the "guilty party" part of the same holiday group then? What did his written report say?
Did the insurance company pay everything in the small print? sounds as if they did
If someone is injured on a ski slope in a way which could turn out to be more serious than at first sight, I suppose one lesson to be learnt is that it's worth calling in piste patrol at the outset and not letting the injured person move too much in case they do more damage. A friend I was with had a bad crash last year
She skied down with her husband, very slowly and I went on ahead to get my car so as she felt so rough. In hindsight we should have insisted on calling piste patrol.
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I got hit last year from behind by a snowboarder and was knocked out. In retrospect after speaking to a doctor friend I probably should not have gone straight to the pub to calm my nerves, but have been seen by a doctor! Luckily my head was ok  But I know better for next time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I got hit last year from behind by a snowboarder and was knocked out. In retrospect after speaking to a doctor friend I probably should not have gone straight to the pub to calm my nerves
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Last year I got hit from behind by a Russian. Fortunately just before he hit me I vaguely heard the sort of sound someone makes when they're in the process of crashing behind you so was expecting to be hit when he went feet first into my boots and skis. One of his skis had come off so I retrieved it for him but he kept saying that he didn't want any help but he really did look in pain when he stood up and skied away. The way he stood it looked to my wife (who's medical) that he'd badly damaged his ankle. Wife later told me that the d1ck had been trying to keep up with me by skiing far more directly down the piste than I was going finally losing control just before hitting me. Strangely enough I couldn't smell any alcohol so maybe he wasn't Russian after all? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| irie wrote: |
| Last year I got hit from behind by a Russian. Fortunately just before he hit me I vaguely heard the sort of sound someone makes when they're in the process of crashing behind you so was expecting to be hit when he went feet first into my boots and skis. One of his skis had come off so I retrieved it for him but he kept saying that he didn't want any help but he really did look in pain when he stood up and skied away. The way he stood it looked to my wife (who's medical) that he'd badly damaged his ankle. Wife later told me that the d1ck had been trying to keep up with me by skiing far more directly down the piste than I was going finally losing control just before hitting me. Strangely enough I couldn't smell any alcohol so maybe he wasn't Russian after all? |
@irie, What do you think you would have done had he say broken your leg, do you think you would have been keen to take action against him as in the recent case mentioned above in Switzerland?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| waitrose wrote: |
| irie wrote: |
| Last year I got hit from behind by a Russian. Fortunately just before he hit me I vaguely heard the sort of sound someone makes when they're in the process of crashing behind you so was expecting to be hit when he went feet first into my boots and skis. One of his skis had come off so I retrieved it for him but he kept saying that he didn't want any help but he really did look in pain when he stood up and skied away. The way he stood it looked to my wife (who's medical) that he'd badly damaged his ankle. Wife later told me that the d1ck had been trying to keep up with me by skiing far more directly down the piste than I was going finally losing control just before hitting me. Strangely enough I couldn't smell any alcohol so maybe he wasn't Russian after all? |
@irie, What do you think you would have done had he say broken your leg, do you think you would have been keen to take action against him as in the recent case mentioned above in Switzerland? |
Hi waitrose, glad to see you back in the thread. I hope your pall is okay now. I've only had two bumps on the slopes. One where someone took off from the side without looking and one the other week when someone was just behind me and came across my line to scrub off speed. What pisses me off are the people that go far too fast straight lining on a slope and can't stop until they hit a barrier (some barriers are called @Ronald) 😀
See what I did there, a bit of seriousness and a direct wee wee take at one Subaru driving 
I can understand taking the nip sometimes, we all have bad days...... But a wee bit less of the "this is not funny" initially would have been better.
I'm not slagging you off, I've not met you.... Just a bit of advice on the casual nature of the forum. Some on here are legally trained, some are even ex judges.
If you know the other person's details, simply write to them and ask for a)an apology or b) a letter to say they will consider your points (that way they don't commit). I used to work for a company who had a blanket "don't admit any liability" in ANY circumstances. This was especially embarrassing for me when I hit a static car in a car park in full view of the owner. She said, obviously you will admit liability..... I said, no..... She said eh!!!!.....
I don't know how old you are but think of the monty Python sketch involving a parrot. It is dead.... No it is just resting. 😀😀😀😀
Anyway... All the best in the future on the slopes.
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FAQ
