 Poster: A snowHead
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Cedric, couldn't agree more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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halfhand, Chemmy's probably 4 years off her peak - Vancouver will be her games if she stays fit. That said, she's doing pretty well... if she was Austrian she'd be in their team.
Finlay is very young also and has podiums in him. Baxter could do with a few earlier start numbers then we might be able to really compare him with the top boys. Forget Bode, the best story would be if Baxter could produce the goods in the Olympics and settle an old score.
David Goldsmith, just had a read... that's what his countrymen think of him. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, it's what they believe.
Anyway, talking of the Olympics, got any Tips PG?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG, I can well imagine the effort and bravery required and I freely admit that it's something I will never have. The point is not that they are not good but that they don't reach the standard to become more interesting for TV. It's a media driven world and if you're not the best the the media don't want to know. If they're to reach the level of public consciousness achieved by the likes of Miller, Maier, Kostelic et al then it is all about breaking in to "the elite". As a brit I always want brit sportsmen and women to win and I get dissapointed when they don't show. I'm sure our top ski racers are well regarded amongst their peers but they can't seem to achieve the level of consistency required over the season to do this. I would be made up to be proved wrong in Turin and over the rest of the season.
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PG, I can well imagine the effort and bravery required and I freely admit that it's something I will never have. The point is not that they are not good but that they don't reach the standard to become more interesting for TV. It's a media driven world and if you're not the best the the media don't want to know. If they're to reach the level of public consciousness achieved by the likes of Miller, Maier, Kostelic et al then it is all about breaking in to "the elite". As a brit I always want brit sportsmen and women to win and I get dissapointed when they don't show. I'm sure our top ski racers are well regarded amongst their peers but they can't seem to achieve the level of consistency required over the season to do this. I would be made up to be proved wrong in Turin and over the rest of the season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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halfhand, let's give credit: Chemmy's 9th place in Cortina in 2004 was Britain's first top-10 result in a World Cup downhill since my 9th place in Schladming in 1988, and the first top-10 in a women's World Cup downhill since the early 1970s. Finlay's 13th place in Bormio in 2004 was Britain's first top-15 placing in a World Cup downhill since my brother was 12th at Kitzbuhel in 1994. Alain Baxter has been through more injustice than any athlete should have to bear, and yet is still performing at close to world class (7th fastest on the 2nd run at last year's World Championships).
Yes we want our sportsmen to win, but then we should vote for a goverment that will support sport as well as the other western European nations. Or at least give the corporate tax breaks given to US firms who sponsor sport. The National Lottery was a huge step forward (once it was allowed to be used for training expenses and not just bricks and mortar), but now that is being eroded.
As for Bode, I also used to find him refreshingly honest, but having attended the press conference at Beaver Creek last month, I am tired of his arrogance. His relationship with the press is now so bad that journalists are afraid to ask him a question because they know he'll just jump down their throats if it's not to his liking. Winners don't need to be like that. Franz Klammer was smiling and charming in every interview, whether he had just placed 1st or 50th. And Stenmark, Zurbriggen or Girardelli never said anything unpleasant - mainly because they didn't say much at all!
Across the USA, ski-racing coaches are now telling their kids not to be like Bode.
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I'm not surprised at Miller's change of heart with respect to journalists. They have exploited his frankness in the past and he's suffered the consequences. So he has less respect for hacks - that's his prerogative. Comparing him with the winners of other eras - well times have changed, as well as the media's attitude towards public figures. They don't ask the same questions, the agenda's often different, and some are all too eager to knock a champion off his pedestal if it makes good copy.
Sure he's no monosyllabic Maier, but ski racing has greatly benefited from his 'devil-may-care' approach, and I just felt from early in this thread that people who don't really know the guy that well, if at all, can be rather quick to criticise.
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Martin Bell,
Can I just say that with all the name dropping in your last post I'm saddened that the British people's choice on skis didn't even get a mention.
But don't worry I'll get Eddie (the Eagle) a pint to cheer him up next time we're out together with Franz Klammer and Maier in Vienna.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's a shame one can't (or can one) access complete transcripts of the likes of the Beaver Creek press conference. I find many of Millers' comments throught provoking particularly when quoted out of context.
What I think I mean is,... he hits the headlines with "Bode recommends athletes take drugs"-like headlines and when I try and determine what was actually stated he comes across well. What doesn't come across are the verbatim statements and attitudes - arrogant or not.
Is this an indictment on a damn great skier (which is not in and of itself an excuse to be a prat) or on the media filter we are forced to perceive the world through...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| (which is not in and of itself an excuse to be a prat) |
A very good word to use. Don't get me wrong, I respect the guy's ability, especially his way of breaking the rules of technique and getting away with it using pure athleticism. But don't ask me to like the guy or hold his behaviour up as a good example for youngsters.
I agree that the media tend to sensationalise things more now, because that's the only way to get heard in the cacophony of sources out there. And using Bode's humble upbringing to put him down is pompous snobbery.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martin Bell,
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Across the USA, ski-racing coaches are now telling their kids not to be like Bode.
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I rest my case your honour.
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| JohnHill wrote: |
Martin Bell,
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Across the USA, ski-racing coaches are now telling their kids not to be like Bode.
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I rest my case your honour. |
And what are the kids saying? The response to Bode from the kids in France was overwhelmingly positive as far as I could see.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| Across the USA, ski-racing coaches are now telling their kids not to be like Bode. |
All of them? Some of them? And why? Because he doesn't conform? Isn't afraid to criticise the establishment occasionally? Has an unorthodox technique that coaches can't begin to emulate in the first place?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Certainly not all of them. But a fair number - initially because of the unorthodox technique, now because of the "it's OK to take drugs and drink". Yes, I know that's a simplified message (the fault of the media, yes), but simplified messages are usually what comes across to the youngsters.
I wouldn't say that he is now vilified - far from it, he is still a hero. But he is rapidly spending the goodwill that he built up with his overall WC win last season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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An update on this rolling story from All Headline News.
According to that report, Bode Miller has been given an ultimatum: to apologise for his comments about alcohol ... or leave the US Ski Team.
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| Miller is expected to give a public statement this week before the three World Cup races at Wengen, according to the New York Post. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So it definitely seems although the US team do not like the potential that they get stereotyped alongside Bode.... I thought this would have been fairly obvious to be honest!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So to sum up, the guy has a hangover before racing and is honest enough to admit it. Only a danger to himself of course, yet a proportion of the many sliders who put other people in danger every time they take to the slopes after a few drinks are quick to point the finger. He has criticised the sport's governing body and the barricades have gone up. He queries the efficiency of the drug-testing process, points out its inadequacies, and the press are close to claiming that he has advocated a drug-taking free for all. He's reluctant to speak to the media so much these days - surprise, surprise. Now the US is more worried it seems - wonder why that is - by the alcohol rather than the performance-enhancing substances issue. Both blown out of all proportion by the media - but it's the consequences of the media campaign rather than the facts of the issue that have people worried, appearances matter more to the national and international governing bodies than the intent behind his words, it seems.
If he's been given an ultimatum, I wonder if he'll tell them where to stick it. It would be a great loss to the sport if he were to be hounded out.
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Bode Miller is now in Wengen, training for this weekend's big downhill, and the press are hovering for his every word. He's keeping quiet, but is expected to respond to the US Ski Association's criticisms tomorrow Thursday.
This report from USA Today.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JohnHill, with my tingue firmly in cheek,
"Will we be introducing breath-testing for the Natives Workers Challenge events? Almost certainly."
Noooo!, the whole point of being a saisonniere is to be able to drink all night and ski all day. Or the other way around. I forget, it's all a little hazy now...
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David Murdoch,
Any individual taking part in the Natives Challenge while sober would have an unfair advantage over the other contenders. If they are under the required limit they have to drink another. Allegedly 
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Alcohol can help you follow an erratic course down the hill, provided that the slalom flags are planted as you go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Here's a short but well-researched piece in the Wall Street Journal that clarifies things a bit, and maybe assists Bode Miller in extricating himself. It has hyperlinks to other sources.
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Have you read http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=6910 ?
This indicates to me what the problem is. Bode clearly has contempt for education. His take is that you should only learn something which is known fact, so if history has gone to prove something wrong, it is not worth learning about. The significance of this is that it leads to an inability to comprehend a situation on which you have no facts. That situation often will result in a person being deeply unintelligent whilst they actually believe otherwise. That would go a long way to explain Bode's arrogant views which are so often met with contempt from others.
My feeling, Bode just doesnt have the brain to realise the controversy he is creating.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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buns, I sometimes think we expect too much from sports stars. Just because someone is the fastest on the planet at something doesn't mean to say they have to be bright, personable or without human failings. We wouldn't expect all nuclear physicists to be tolerably good skiers, at ease with the press and living saints, would we?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well, no, not at all. But I think what's got the US Ski Team's goat here is that Bode Miller is expressing opinion that's clearly at variance with his fellow team members.
In a way it's an issue of "if you're in a team, what's your reasonable freedom of expression?"
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| "if you're in a team, what's your reasonable freedom of expression?" |
Being part of a 'team' doesn't seem to stop a not insignificant number of parliamentarians from ignoring the whip if they feel so inclined. Or having a drink or six, now and again. Which is worse, having a sports star admitting to having raced hungover, or having alcoholic politicians making crucial, sometimes life and death decisions in running the country? What sort of example is that?
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You know it makes sense.
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Bode was joint-third in the second training run at Wengen. Erik Guay took the honours, and Finlay Mickel 19th.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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(Partial results after 60 or so starts but unlikely to be any significant changes)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What was Arnold Schwarzenegger's placing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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He terminated outside the top 100. He was handicapped by a severely injured lip.
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Allegedly, Arnold and Austria have fallen out (there was no bike accident we sent the boys round). The Yanks are keeping Arnie as a sub for when Bode has had too much of a skinfull.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Austrians liked his body-building and termination activities, but drew the line when he actually terminated somebody [and maybe thought it was just a scene in a movie].
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Good for him. Reading between the lines of the Maxim articles referred above, well, I would like to meet the guy. He may, as you saw Martin Bell, come across as arrogant, (I can't comment) - which is a shame, as otherwise he seems to come across genuinely as trying to find his own way, making his own mistakes and occasionally having to apologise for them.
Can think of many worse ways of leading one's life myself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Can think of many worse ways of leading one's life myself.
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Must be really tough being a famous gifted skier, rudely healthy and on what, $5m p.a. ?
The guy's got a touch of the Michael Jacksons about him albeit on a smaller and different scale.
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My take on which celebrity he least resembles? Has to be ....... Michael Jackson  . So he's got a few dollars. One of the few alpine ski racers that actually receives a reasonable sum, and even so it's a fraction of the earnings of comparable superstars in other sports in the US.
Top ski racers have to subject themselves to the sort of training regime that most people couldn't begin to imagine. They race the speed disciplines to the absolute limit. They sacrifice a lot. Outside the top 30 very few earn anything at all. (One of Miller's arguments for setting up a rival circuit was a fairer distribution of money among racers).
Somehow can't see BM going for plastic surgery and having roundabouts in his back yard!
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