 Poster: A snowHead
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Topic is deleted..
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 8-10-15 23:24; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have nothing but admiration for those who train the ET, and your post hints at the massive effort that's required by all except those who have a lot of race training experience before they embarked on instructor exams.
However, I can't help but wonder what the ski instruction business would be like if we put the same amount of effort in to our teaching skills as we put in to our GS skills...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You just back from the pub ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 8-10-15 23:24; edited 4 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| Andrew Marr is a man on a mission. He's had a life threatening debilitating stroke. |
Funny you should mention him. His stroke was the result of very high intensity training, which many would regard as completely unnecessary for what he was trying to achieve. There would be some who might say the same about the ET...
| SkiPresto wrote: |
| Only the best teachers pass |
You're making a joke, right?
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Slightly confused here. What has racing down a hill got to do with teaching people how to ski?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 8-10-15 23:25; edited 2 times in total
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 8-10-15 23:25; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| SkiPresto wrote: |
| Andrew Marr is a man on a mission. He's had a life threatening debilitating stroke. |
Funny you should mention him. His stroke was the result of very high intensity training, which many would regard as completely unnecessary for what he was trying to achieve. There would be some who might say the same about the ET...
| SkiPresto wrote: |
| Only the best teachers pass |
You're making a joke, right? |
You will have passed your Level 4 Teaching, Then? |
No, but I'm not sure what that's got to do with the ET being a test of the best teachers?
Do you believe that everyone who has passed the ET is an excellent teacher?
Do you believe that if you haven't passed the ET you can't be an excellent teacher?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 8-10-15 23:26; edited 3 times in total
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
No. To pass ISTD
1 - You have to be one of the best tested teachers.
2 - You have to put your body where your mouth is. Pass the Eurotest. That means your body, mind and spirit - not to mention your bank account, needs to have learned what it takes to pass.
3 - You will only understand that when you do the training, make whatever improvements you need to make - and go for the test. |
All perfectly sensible answers. Just not to the questions that I asked. Never mind.
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You know it makes sense.
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 8-10-15 23:58; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SkiPresto, thank you for answering my questions. It will be up to others to decide whether they agree with you, or not.
Good luck with your ET training this autumn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Topic is deleted.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 8-10-15 23:29; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| I wanted to have a channel for those exhausted souls who are pushing their bodies and bank accounts to the max. |
Alas, with social media you can't control the response you get, as everyone can chip in with whatever commentary they want. My guess is you'll reach a larger number of instructors who are ET training by starting a discussion like this on other forums, the BASI Facebook groups, for example.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Topic is deleted
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 8-10-15 23:29; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
I have a depressing feeling (only for 0.02 seconds) that you are right there.
However: Snowheads may well have a hidden army of ski teachers striving to help one another. |
Perhaps, and I'm all in favour of instructors supporting each other, exchanging ideas (which takes me back to my first point about the relative importance placed on sharing teaching expertise and sharing GS expertise), etc. I know that there are two active members of snowHeads who are seriously training for ET, and probably a few more that might read but not post. But I'm sure you understand that the BASI FB pages would reach dozens who are on the ET treadmill.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| SkiPresto wrote: |
No. To pass ISTD
1 - You have to be one of the best tested teachers.
2 - You have to put your body where your mouth is. Pass the Eurotest. That means your body, mind and spirit - not to mention your bank account, needs to have learned what it takes to pass.
3 - You will only understand that when you do the training, make whatever improvements you need to make - and go for the test. |
All perfectly sensible answers. Just not to the questions that I asked. Never mind. |
OK Here's more:-
Your questions answered:
| Quote: |
| "No, but I'm not sure what that's got to do with the ET being a test of the best teachers? " |
The ET is a test that can only be passed by skiers who have learned how to control speed. And Line. You can't teach speed and line unless you understand how to do it yourself. e.g. most ski teacher teach a crude braking parallel with edge application after the fall-line that tires out the learner so they'll never get it.
| Quote: |
| Do you believe that everyone who has passed the ET is an excellent teacher? |
If they are not already an excellent teacher, they will learn. Their ingrained knowledge will then be available to pass on.
| Quote: |
| Do you believe that if you haven't passed the ET you can't be an excellent teacher? |
You can be an excellent teacher of anything, but what are you excellently teaching? You can only teach in skiing what you can demonstrate. If you are demonstrating turns that do not separate speed and direction, then you are building-in weaknesses in to the pupil and condemning them to a world of frustration and failure.
As I have said before, I get tired of ski teachers who can't ski very well, pushing themselves forward and trying to assert themselves over teachers who can demonstrate to a much higher level of technical skill and competence. |
@SkiPresto, I disagree with almost everything you've written. Skiing, and ski tuition is not unique. There are many brilliant coaches who never made the grade as a 'player'. Football, rugby, tennis, to name but 3 have brilliant coaches who either never made the grade at the sport they coach. It is their ability to impart knowledge and assist with skills building that sets them out. On the other hand there have been many brilliant players who have been disasters as coaches.
By your definition someone who misses out on passing the ET by 0.5 second on multiple occasions is not worth of being an instructor. And that is just nonsense. The ex-racer who aces the ET at the first attempt could be an absolute knob as an instructor whereas someone who just misses out may have more coaching talent in their little finger than the ex-racer has in their whole body.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 8-10-15 23:18; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just because you can demonstrate how to do something, doesn't mean you can effectively teach how to do something, it's only one part of the learning process. Just because somebody can, for example, tie a shoelace, doesn't mean they can teach others how to do it, not everybody learns from copying.
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@SkiPresto, although I disagree with your view I do wish you well with your quest. Clearly it is something you want and believe is necessary for you to feel you are at the top or your trade.
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I guess at the age I am roughly imagining you are it will be a mighty achievement if you pass the ET so all the best. But I'd wish you a happy and healthy season in preference.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting, just because some of us disagreed with the OP, the toys have been thrown out the pram. Shame really as the thread had the potential to be useful with regards to what helps make somebody a good instructor/coach...
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Thanks for your attention. It's clear that the objectives of this thread have not been achieved, as it has not attracted anyone on the pathway to Alpe d'Huez 2015.
Thanks for all your no doubt well-intentioned comments.
I've asked the powers that be to delete the whole topic.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Its hard to accurately comment since @SkiPresto, has deleted his threads. Ill probably have got this completely wrong, but from what I can gather he is saying that you need to be a good skier to teach (ignore the ET bit).
In general I have to agree!
I must admit there seems to be an awful lot of BASI trained instructors, who whilst have the knowledge are themselves technically pants. It confuses me (actually it frustrates me) that people can get their BASI 1 and are teaching people to parallel turn, when in fact their parallel turns are poor to ok. I appreciate this is a massive generalisation, however I used to race at CFe, and now my son is now learning to ski at Tamworth, and in general some of the ability of staff at both slopes is shocking. - HUGE CAVEAT - there are some excellent instructors too! - I know BASI have standards for each level, however I don't (from the outside looking in) believe those standards push your ability enough. It almost feels like (I'm going to get shouted at here) BASI will give out level ones, like germany is giving out passports....
Grenade thrown in, now wheres my helmet, I've found a use for it...... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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^ That can't be right because the best instruction is all about demonstrating top level speed and line control
OP I don't expect people will be begging for your bon mots to be reposted but your huffette so soon after starting a billy bignuts thread isn't the greatest PR for your way of thinking.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Indeed - Qualifications do not prove competence!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry, folks. I tried to get Snowheads support Superhumans to delete this entire topic, as I was the one who started it.
It has not attracted people who are training towards the December Eurotest in Alpe d'Huez.
You are all entitled to have a debate between yourselves with all your ideas.
However, I regret I won't be participating.
The purpose of this topic wasn't to have a debate, to air all your prejudices against the Eurotest but to get a bunch of people together to co-operate with getting training completed, travelling to Alpe d'Huez, finishing training there and performing to our best in the December Eurotest.
I say to the Administrators that I want this whole topic deleted. It looks like it will not be deleted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
Thanks for your attention. It's clear that the objectives of this thread have not been achieved, as it has not attracted anyone on the pathway to Alpe d'Huez 2015.
Thanks for all your no doubt well-intentioned comments.
I've asked the powers that be to delete the whole topic. |
TBH, nobody can now tell what the objectives of the thread may or may not have been since you removed your posts, and from what I can remember, it didn't come across as being aimed at people trying for the ET this season. More a thread about what is involved in actually getting to that stage, of which teaching, understandably, plays a major part.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry, folks. I tried to get Snowheads support Superhumans to delete this entire topic, as I was the one who started it.
It has not attracted people who are training towards the December Eurotest in Alpe d'Huez.
You are all entitled to have a debate between yourselves with all your ideas.
However, I regret I won't be participating.
The purpose of this topic wasn't to have a debate, to air all your prejudices against the Eurotest but to get a bunch of people together to co-operate with getting training completed, travelling to Alpe d'Huez, finishing training there and performing to our best in the December Eurotest.
I say to the Administrators that I want this whole topic deleted. It looks like it will not be deleted.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@SkiPresto, if you walked into your local*, with the intention of eliciting interest in a trip to the local ring to watch the "big fight", and shouted out, "all right you tw@ts who wants a piece of this?" would it be surprising if you didn't get the reaction you wanted?
*you may frequent higher class boozers than I do
You should also have noticed by hanging around here that the ET is a topic of some sensitivity, much like Australian or Welsh rugby around Twickenham (titter)...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SkiPresto wrote: |
| The purpose of this topic wasn't to have a debate, to air all your prejudices against the Eurotest but to get a bunch of people together to co-operate with getting training completed, travelling to Alpe d'Huez, finishing training there and performing to our best in the December Eurotest. |
SkiPresto, that is an extremely naïve view of Social Media. You posted a thread on a public forum and made some pretty bold statements, yet you expect to be able to control what people can and cannot say. If you want something like that I'd suggest that you need to start your own, heavily moderated, forum. The location for your post, "The Piste", is also the most public and heavily visited part of Snowheads. You might have had more chance of a restrictive discussion by posting on "Bend Ze Knees" or joining the thread highlighted by Little Martin.
| Quote: |
| prejudice - an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge. |
So your view of the ET is the right one and everyone else who disagrees is prejudice?
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| pc wrote: |
| We were in a French resort a while back and the most accomplished skier in the group started taking the mick behind a French ski-instructor teaching a group of 15 or so early intermediates who was absolutely PANTS! |
And the irony is?
That French Ski Instructor would have passed his Euro Test, unless he was still a Stagiere. However, he would still have had to pass the Test Technique. Kind of blows @SkiPrestos assertion that only the best of the best can pass the ET.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't confuse BASI level with experience. Don't forget e.g. at Hemel there are some part time insyructors with many years of experience teaching when it was a dryslope. Clearly not the same as a neophyte skier who decides BASI is the route to personal development.
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FAQ
