Planning a pretty wild international winter- now taking advice

A snowHead

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. After a few year hiatus of being poor without vacation days, I'm ready to have an incredible winter.
Aside from local (USA) stuff, I'm booked for a flight to Japan (Niseko) for about 2 weeks (8 on the mountain, the rest in Toyko exploring the city). I booked through SkiJapan.com, which seems to be pretty reputable, so we'll see where that goes.

Where I really need help is Europe, strangely enough. My goal is to ski in as many different countries as possible, within reason. I'll probably have a solid 7-8 days and can fly into any airport- that's not a big deal at all. I've been told there are resorts where I can start in one country and end up in another. I think that is up right up my alley. If I could hit up two or three of those resorts, it would be a great trip. I'd also need to figure out how to get from one resort to another, obviously.

I'm traveling alone, so I won't have to care what anyone else wants to do. I'm also interested in general advice from people who have done this before (ie: bring extra socks). While I'm a relatively good snowboarder (or was, last time I was on a mountain 4 or 5 years ago), all my trips have been domestic.

My third trip is South America, but that's not for anther 8-9 months. I'm not worried about that now, but advice is always appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

A snowHead

There is so much skiing in the alps, and resorts like Paradiski and Three Valleys have 450km and 600km of pistes respectively.

I'm not sure you will get the best experience maximizing the number of countries you go to... But if you must, then you could rent a car and travel in the evenings covering France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Germany. Bear in mind alpine roads are small, long and windy so getting from a resort high up in France and round to another resort high up in Italy could take a while, but with some careful planning and by doing research into which passes/tunnels remain open, you should be able to cover all five.

I wouldn't even think about trying to do it by public transport or even using ski transfers as the timings just won't much up if you actually want to get more than a couple of hours a day on the pistes.

Accommodation will also be a bit difficult to organise as the alps work on changeover days, taking weekly bookings. Change over day is Saturday for most, otherwise Sunday.

In Zermatt, Switzerland, you can ski into Italy.

But really, in terms of skiing you will have a much better (and cheaper) time staying somewhere like three valleys and exploring the 600km of pistes.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@godspeed, Welcome to snowHeads!

To assist with recommending suitable European resorts to you it would help to clarify if you intend skiing, snowboarding, or both, as some areas may have some some flatter sections which are not so suited to boarders. (You said "My goal is to ski in as many different countries as possible" and "I'm a relatively good snowboarder")

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Sorry- I meant snowboard. I'll be snowboarding.

My ideal trip is 3-4 days at one resort (that lets me ride right into another country) and another 3-4 days at another resort that does the same.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Chatel lift pass will take care of France and Switzerland for you.

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@godspeed, As eshroom said, in Zermatt (Switzerland) you can ski over into Italy (Cervinia). Zermatt of course has the Matterhorn, which is one of the most famous (and photogenic!) mountains in the world. Note that staying in Zermatt isn't cheap (staying in Cervinia would be cheaper, but that doesn't really allow you to explore the full ski areas of Zermatt). Also if you have a car note that you can't actually drive it all the way into Zermatt as it's car free - you have to leave it at one of the many car parks in the nearby village of Täsch where you take a train for the last few km into Zermatt. Of course you can also travel all the way from a Swiss airport to Zermatt using the excellent Swiss Rail network and the special Swiss Transfer Ticket (which is only available to visitors and has to be bought before you arrive in Switzerland). If you should be interested in Zermatt then I can recommend the Hotel Europe.

Other cross border ski areas that come to mind are the Portes du Soleil (shared between France and Switzerland) and Ischgl in Austria where you can ski over to Samnaun in Switzerland.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@godspeed,
You could base yourself in the Aosta Valley in Italy (which is a short drive from Turin or Milan) and visit some excellent resorts there. If you base yourself in Aosta itself, for example, you could snowboard in Pila, Italy (linked by a short gondola ride from Aosta) and also drive to Gressoney, Courmayeur and/or Cervinia (linked to Zermatt in Switzerland) or La Thuile (which has slopes linked to La Rosiere in France) - 3 countries in one week from one base! And, significantly, one lift pass will cover all the ski resorts in the valley.

Aosta isn't a typical ski resort but (although industrial in part) has a lovely old town centre, with Roman ruins and good restaurants. Its also very cheap for accommodation, food & drink and has some biggish hotels that will offer flexibility on the length of your stay.

Furthermore, you could take a day trip (or longer) from the Aosta Valley through the Mont Blanc Tunnel and then snowboard in Chamonix. Or put the icing on the cake of your trip by snowboarding the Vallee Blanche (with a guide) into Chamonix - an off piste 9,000ft vertical drop! Very Happy

After all it is free

Are we forgetting Andora? What about Spain?

Do you want huge commercial areas with miles of piste and hundreds of lifts or something more charming?

Do you want lots of off piste?

Do you want steep or easy?

Do you want quiet or nightlife?

Are you on a budget?

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There's no issue with snowboarding anywhere in the Alps. Some places are flatter than others, but no skilled snowboarder would notice any issue. I would not get too hung up on the "ride from one country to another". It doesn't really feel any different as you cross a boarder, there are minor cultural differences but it's not black and white near the borders anyway.

Americans (and I) like Zermatt, which is a historic village with brilliant views and an interesting mix of old and new riding. You can easily ride into Italy and check that out, so it ticks that box. Easily accessible also by public transport from GVA, so cost-effective in that respect for singles. Not a cheap place mind.

If that sates your need for cross-border stuff then the 3 Valleys is the next obvious place: there's nothing remotely like it in North America. Otherwise the PDS has the cross-border thing going on, but aside from the Swiss Wall the circuit itself isn't steep or memorable.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Surely on a trip by public transport Austria would be a good option. I mean some resorts (kitzbuhel Hanenkam) for example you can get of the train train and almost straight onto the lift. Other resorts like zell am see it's a relatively short walk to the slopes, you can bus it from there to Saalbach and Kaprun etc and the train lines in those areas serves a lot of other resorts too.
I'm sure you could even train it onto somewhere like Ischgl (via a shortish bus link from Landeck?) or similar to ski there and into Switzerland, even train it to St Anton etc.

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@godspeed, If your looking to do a substantial amount of decent skiing in good resorts in Europe as well as ski in a number of countries, I would recommend staying in Ischgl in Austria which will mean you ski over Samnaun - Switzerland and back on a daily basis. A really top resort with lots of skiing and a great time off the pistes too.

You could ski for 3/4 days there then travel by train/car via Turin to one of the Milky Way (Via Lattea) resorts in Italy/France. This area spans the border and has a large amount of varied skiing. Staying in Montgenevre in France would give you easy access to the Italian side (Claviere, Sestriere, Sauze d'oulx) as well as being a good resort in its own right. Whilst there you could also have a days skiing at Serre Chevalier. There is a train station in Oulx from which resorts can be reached by taxi and other public/private transport.

4 Countries in 8 days with at least 6 of them being skiing days. I would recommend hiring a car, the european roads really aren't as daunting or difficult as they are made out to be unless the weather is really bad (good for skiing). They drive on the wrong side of the road just like in America Very Happy

In only 8 days you'll spend more time travelling than riding if you want to do three distinct international areas. Think "cross boarder" rather than "cross border ".

You know it makes sense.

@godspeed,
Now you will appreciate that you've opened a can of worms!

It's a great problem to have but having the whole of the Alps to choose from will give you many a sleepless night! Toofy Grin

I know I mentioned the Aosta Valley earlier - but Austria does have a uniqueness about it in terms of its loveliness and apres ski. Even if you aren't a great drinker the atmosphere of somewhere like Ischgl has to be experienced to be believed! And the skiing (linked to Switzerland) is excellent as well. It's a (relatively) expensive place - but worth it. Very Happy

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I think the advice of people on here is spot on. You will spend your time driving, not skiing, if you're not careful.

If you head for the corner of Switzerland/France/Italy then you will be able to ski a variety of terrain and different countries.

The 3 vallees are huge but not the most interesting skiing. If sound like you've got a fair but of experience, in which case Espace Killey is better really.

A snowHead

If I were coming over from the states and wanted a flavour of the alps I'd want to visit some of the classics (the PDS is not a classic). So I would plan to fly in to one end and fly out of the other and link it all up by train and the odd transfer bus. Something like - Geneva - Chamonix - Verbier - Zermatt - Interlaken (to ski Wengen, Murren), St Anton, Innsbruck (to take in local resorts), and then the Dolomites, then a day in Venice before flying back from there probably via Rome or Milan. Most of that is easily doable by train and they are big places so ad hoc accommodation and hostels are easy to find, maybe with the exception of St Anton. If I was on my own I'd want to keep moving and take in as much as possible.

A snowHead

@Pruman, +1 but I'd sack the Venice bit (and probably Innsbruck local stuff) and spend an extra week in Montafon area and then Vorarlberg (Damuls/ Warth/ Schroeken) before 2 weeks in Arlberg (Lech/ Zurs/ Stuben and St Anton), maybe take in Ischgl and Oetz valley if time permits. I agree with Cham/ Verbier/ Zermatt (? overrated IMO)/ Davos/ Klosters/ Grindelwald, 3 weeks Austria as above then over to Dolomites.

Throw in Japan, maybe a late European season Kamkatcha thing after Dolomites @godspeed, and you've got yourself a trip, enjoy!!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@pam w,

+1

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@Markymark29, 8 days not 8 weeks!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I think the Chamonix to Dolomite tour is possible if you don't mind driving a lot at night.

I'd definately do Chamonix - 2 days - one doing the Valle Blanche

either Verbier or Zermatt 2 days in either resort

Ischgl or St Anton 2 days in either resort

2 days in the Dolomites

that should keep you busy.

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@cameronphillips2000, why drive? They have these wonderfully efficient things called trains.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

in terms of driving - Cham- verbier- St Anton - Val Gardena would be the easiest route with only the leg from Verbier to St Anton being a rather long drive (5 hours is nothing for a North American)

You'd also then have skied at at the permier resorts of Italy, Switzerland, Austria and, arguably, France. Throw in a couple of days at Val d'isere before Cham and you've got the mother of all ski road trips.

After all it is free

@Pruman, Sorry misinterpreted your time frame - in which case I'd say you're trying to cram too much in and will spend more time travelling and running about than actually skiing, I'd stick to one place, either France/ Switz borders (Chamonix/ Verbier) or Arlberg.

@cameronphillips2000, the problem with driving is the big drop off fee for a one way car hire - that is if you can find a rental company willing to do it.

@Markymark29, not my time frame, I'm not doing the trip, it's the original poster. His goal is to ski in as many European countries as possible in 8 days.

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Yes be careful or you will just spend a week travelling and stressing about your next move. Agree with Markymark.
And don't look at this as a once in a lifetime trip, the alps are not going anywhere, plenty of time to come back again (i have been for 25 yrs)

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@Pruman, Sorry..... rolling eyes

I don't get the max number of ski countries in 8 days thing, presumably likes travelling not skiing! Each to their own I guess..... wink

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@godspeed, welcome to snowHead

as you will have gathered 25 posts = 28 opinions!

I agree with others that you need some time in each place. There are a few spots with major resorts in different countries with sensible connections i would pick one pair of resorts with good connections and convenient airports then you get a good 3-4 days in each place.

possibilities;

Mont Blanc area from Chamonix and Aosta valley in Italy, fly to Geneva

Austria, fly to Munich or Innsbruck, ski Kitzbuhel area or Zillertal then Brenner Pass to Italy and find a base somewhere on Sella Ronda, you can do this one by train except short links to the Dolomites resorts.

So, time is a factor here? I assume you not only want lots of countries but some varied places and ideally the best skiing possible? Personally I'd do less travelling in an 8 day trip, but since you ask if I were to do this I'd look at something like this:

Fly in to Munich. Short drive to Garmisch, a day there. If the snow is good there a lots of other smaller resorts in Bavaria that are excellent, but Garmisch is the big one in Germany. The it's a short drive after skiing to Austria. Then I'd head to St Anton. Do a couple of days there (the ticket covers St Anton, Lech, Zuers, Stuben, Warth & Sonnenkopf). Then head West and hit Engelberg and/or Andermatt for some very good Swiss skiing (bring lots of $$$ for this part). Then head South to Italy and a long drive around to Aosta, ski the Monterossa area (e.g. Gressoney) and then Courmayeur. The nip through the tunnel, ski Chamonix before heading to Geneva to fly home.

That covers Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and France. I reckon that's just about possible in 8 days but it would be exhausting, you'll sleep well on the flight home:-). Sadly this does miss the Dolomites (and many other great areas), but it does give you a good look at most of the high Alps.

You know it makes sense.

@sah, You could squeeze half a day in Lichtenstein into that too.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Great thead!

If I had eight days in the Alps!

I think the people advising you to stay in the Mont BLanc area are probably giving the best advice. You sound young, a boarder and probably want to ski steep and deep, off piste, with like minded people.

Cham, Gressoney, Verbier, Val Di'sere, are where you want to be for a once in a lifetime. If you can get to La Grave too then go.

I'd do Austria and The Dolomites another time.

A snowHead

Over 8 days, I don't think I'd go too mad. You could split it down the middle of you want to ski France at one end and Austria at the other, but you would have to spend a middle day travelling. I think i would try and concentrate on one end of the alps and make the most of the mountains without adding in too much travel. I am more familiar with the western end of the alps. Possibly with the exception of Courmayeur where the ski area is quite small, but the town is lovely, there is so much to explore in any resort in terms of pistes, off piste, food, evening entertainment etc, it would be a waste to move on. Like coming to England and saying you've "done" it by visiting London, Stratford upon Avon and Oxford in 3 days. The trouble with skiing/boarding in a new resort each day is that you are constantly having to work out where you are staying in relation to the lifts, where you are on the mountain and where to go next, plus how to get back to base if you are skiing in a multi valley resort or ski area.

However it would be relatively easy to tick off France, Switzerland and Italy at one end by flying to Geneva and starting in Chamonix (France) for 2-3 nights. If you don't want to hire a car there are regular bus transfers to Cham from Geneva airport, and it takes a little over an hour. Some of our North American cousins worry about everyone being foreign and not being able to communicate. Don't worry-English is spoken in most popular places in the Alps-from bar staff to instructors and guides, and some transfer companies are run by Brits- try Cham Express for example. There is slightly less english spoken in Italy-which in fact adds to the charm. On one day if the conditions are right, you could book a guide for the Vallee Blanche. Another day and quick 45 min trip through the Mont Blanc tunnel and you can ski (and eat-yum yum! Amazing on mountain food in Italy) in Courmayeur; then on another you could get the bus over to Verbier (Switzerland-french speaking), ski there and stay the night or get the train to Zermatt (Switzerland-German speaking) at the end of the day. The journey takes a little under 3 hours by train from Le Chable-the station at the bottom of the mountain for Verbier- according to Google. Stay in Zermatt for a couple of nights, and ski in and over to Cervinia (Italy). I wouldn't worry too much about accommodation-my experience is getting short stays in hotels is quite easy, as long as you aren't in France in their school hols (about 6th Feb-6th March). Zermatt is expensive, but for a once in a lifetime trip and for just a couple of nights, you have to see the Matterhorn! There is a nice Youth Hostel there if you are on a budget.

A snowHead

Of the 4 "biggies" of the Alps, Switzerland borders the other 3. So it's pretty easy to pick any of the base that allows skiing 2 countries, one of which will include Switzerland.

Doing 3 countries is a no-brainer, by doing 2-center trip as @Perty suggested (moving base half way). That allows 3-4 days in each base. Decent number of days in each to actually get to know the place a bit and enjoy the skiing.

3 countries being a given, the challenge of doing more than 3 is how to get efficient transport between centers so one doesn't lose any ski day.

If it were me, I'd opt for transport by train. It's one thing to finish skiing and then just hop on a train to my next destination (possibly dinner on board), vs. drive (in a country I'm not familiar with the geography nor language) for a few hours to the next place. Having to hunt for one's hotel in the dark notwithstanding.

Where a car can come in handy, is IF the OP wants to add one extra country. Two options here. He can use the car to efficiently get himself to one of those bases in the Milky Way that gives him access to Italy and France without moving about, then move to his 2nd base Ischgl to get the Suisse-Austria combo. Or alternatively, he can just do the easy 2-base/3-country combo, but rent a car to drive across the border to (say Austria or Germany) for a day just for the heck of being able to say "I skied in one more country!".

So in short, 3 countries is easy. Adding a 4th would likely mean cutting a bit of skiing just for that.

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At the top of one of the lifts in Arnoldstein (Austria) you can stand in 3 countries simultaneously (Austria, Italy, Slovenia). Although the piste run back down is mainly in Austria, a little part in Slovenia, but not in Italy. You could certainly do a couple of turns in Italy to claim that you've been there though. Smile

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Depends what the rules of the game are. Does just crossing the border count or do you have to ski from each country?

From Chamonix in France, you can touch both Italy and Switzerland and from Arnoldstein in Austra you can touch Italy and Slovenia.

http://www.3laendereck.at/

Also try these threads:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1628395
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37605

Edit: Must not spend so much time looking up links Wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Glad that someone has added Liechtenstein - its resort of Malbun would be easy to add into a tour out of Zurich covering Switzerland, Austria , Germany and Italy. I'd suggest that a hire car is a must though.

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Glad that someone has added Liechtenstein - its resort of Malbun would be easy to add into a tour out of Zurich covering Switzerland, Austria , Germany and Italy. I'd suggest that a hire car is a must though.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@mountainaddict, cross border hire car costs might add up eh? wink

After all it is free

@godspeed, Here's a great article from a UK newspaper: 3 countries, one ski trip. Austria, Italy & Switzerland.

https://archive.is/Wmu7C

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