 Poster: A snowHead
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They do only work 6 months out of 12 @dode, because there isn't a market for the transfers outside of these 6 months (tied to lift opening) when anything other than a stonking loss could be made.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Nadenoodlee, I get that, but surely they do different work for the other 6 months?? Most users would, I think, object to funding a six month holiday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dode, I think this thread has established that private taxis to and from UK airports are also expensive. You'd expect to pay a bit more in the Alps, IMO, to cover the cost of special equipment and the fact that most of the work is on Saturdays. Personally I think the fetish with Sat/Sat holidays is a bit daft, but there you go - it seems to be what most people want!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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dode, The other six months are not in one block, what job do you suggest they do ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think most get by @dode,
I would say very few enjoy a '6 month holiday'- but I am assuming you're talking about drivers not business owners.
For transport companies their '6 month holiday' could at least partially be filled with recruitment, training, French paperwork, Swiss paperwork, accounts, UK paperwork, health and safety, contract negotiation, chalet contracts etc.
I still think it's cheap at half the price. At 4am when the snow is falling I'd happily pay 50€ for a trained driver to deliver me safely to the airport whilst I drink coffee and watch my iPad.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Nadenoodlee, +1
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Out of curiosity I just did a quick comparison. Geneva - Chamonix is about the same distance as London - Newbury. Geneva - Chamonix transfers (ignoring Easybus) are around €22 to €30, any time ticket on train from London to Newbury is €38. I think I would say that the ski transfers appear to be pretty good value.
Edit: another quick check and a train from Geneva to Chamonix is €22. So still looks like a good deal.
(I'm only using Geneva - Chamonix as that's the route I usually do.
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Thread title changed.
My comparison was - I can get a local airport transfer company to take all 4 of us from home to Manchester airport, for £170 return. Admittedly that's under 2 hours away, but even if you double up its an awful lot less than the Swiss/French side. Others have given many different explanations for that, but I guess the most pertinent is the reasoning that as the companies are all roughly the same price, I doubt they are operating a cartel so the costs involved must simply be much higher.
Thanks everyone for your input!
And it's snowing in the Alps 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Simonskis,
Try these guys — you will get a number of quotes, and some of them will be much cheaper than others. I have used them a few times, and they have always found me amazing prices. Note that they don't make a charge to the customer, and just a small 2% charge to the transfer company:
https://www.findtransfers.com
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which then indirectly puts up prices to the customer.... @PeDaSp,
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't know if this has already been suggested, but this forum puts a lot of like-minded people together who will often be travelling from the same continental airports to the same mountains. Maybe someone (who's concerned) could set up an online calendar somewhere where people can enter their flight dates and destinations and share transport. It wouldn't work all the time, sure, but it would work a fair bit of the time, I'd have thought.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A few weeks back as I booked and paid for a Europcar Octavia from Geneva for 8 days at half term for £305 inc chains and winter tyres I wondered why on earth people bothered with transfers.
Today chanced to look again and the same car is now over £650 for the same period. 
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@Oobie38 The wonders of dynamic pricing.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I used them as well, and picked the company that used a snowhead photo without permission. They only use Mercedes as well. 650 Euros , three Valleys Boxing day for 6, bargain.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No offence to all the transfer company apologists above but the rip-off prices are also applied on transfers from French airports, specifically Grenoble and Lyon. What it's really about is taking a piece of the extortionate prices skiers are exposed to elsewhere - e.g. lift passes - and disguising the fact that they are gouging their customers. The evidence is in the sudden mass expansion of these companies. 10 years ago you used to get the Mercedes Vito taxi type transfers form Geneva and certain people (ski chalet employees - say no more) noticed a certain price insensitivity to the cost. So then you got the small mini vans plying the same routes. Same cost, more people, same price insensivity. more profit. Now it's many flaming great coaches all charging the same amount as a small, personal taxi transfer used to cost. Me and my better half have worked out that its cheaper for the two of us to hire a basic car and drive from Geneva to Les Arcs (also saving a day's ski pass if neither of us fancy skiing the first day) than to take the 'Ben's bus' alternative. It also means we can then go ski Tignes. Val d'Isere, etc. with ease. There is no economic sense in a family taking the transfer bus.
Simplest, easiest way to BStM is the Eurostar. Cheapest is an EJ flight to Geneva then the train to Chambrey, change and go to BStM then take the furniclur up the mountain (having got you lift pass before hand or at the shop at the base of the furnicular). There is no reason why you cannot have a direct train from Geneva Airport to BStM, its just that SNCF don't want to do it. Mountains don't enter in to it. If you are stressed about the change go to Lyon or Grenoble and get a direct train. My advice is to chat with people on the flight and see if there are enough of you going to the train station. If there are then just get a cab from the airport to the train. Otherwise get the bus.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
The evidence is in the sudden mass expansion of these companies. 10 years ago you used to get the Mercedes Vito taxi type transfers form Geneva and certain people (ski chalet employees - say no more) noticed a certain price insensitivity to the cost. So then you got the small mini vans plying the same routes. Same cost, more people, same price insensivity. more profit.
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There may be some flaws in this economic argument. The transfer market naturally grows with the DIY travel market, doesn't it? And especially with the growth of comparison sites it is difficult to argue that there is no competition.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@RattytheSnowRat, not sure i agree with 'simplest, easiest' comment. IME its mush easier and simpler to pick the bags and ski's for a 2 adults and 2 children, have the nice transfer man carry half of them the 50 yards to his nice van. Then take the most expedient route to the front door of our hotel or chalet. No lugging bags from plane to trane to bus or from wherever they take you to your accommodation and then the same in reverse. I can afford the private transfer, i understand they are there to provide a service and also make a profit.
Just my take, nobody need agree with it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| ...Now it's many flaming great coaches all charging the same amount as a small, personal taxi transfer used to cost. |
You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of inflation. Yes, the cost per-seat on a larger vehicle is lower than in a smaller one but those costs increase over time. Rather than increase prices transfer companies have moved to larger vehicles, redusing their costs and enabling them to counter inflation and maintain the same price to customers.
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| The evidence is in the sudden mass expansion of these companies. |
So there's an increase in supply but not a drop in price. In economic terms this suggests either demand has outpaced this growth in supply or everyone is running at the lowest economically viable rate the market will accept.
Sure it could be a regulated market or cartel but this is unlikely. Even in a regulated market a growth in supply can't be sustained without a growth in demand as no-one makes enough money to survive. A cartel is also unlikely as while it could lead to an increase in the number of vehicles it would tend to prevent an increase in the number of companies - it's easier to maintain the cartel if you say that to do the job you have to be a member of the company/organisation (caugh)ESF(caugh).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The ESF can certainly be accused of protectionist practices (and are, by other French schools, as well as the increasing number of competing British schools). Many French resorts have more competing ski schools than American, Austrian or Italian ones.
So their protectionist practices are perhaps not too effective, at least in maintaining high prices? IME ESF prices are usually as cheap as any in resort and a lot cheaper than many. That's not (before anyone jumps in) to say they are necessarily better value.
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| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| No offence to all the transfer company apologists above but the rip-off prices are also applied on transfers from French airports, specifically Grenoble and Lyon. What it's really about is taking a piece of the extortionate prices skiers are exposed to elsewhere - e.g. lift passes - and disguising the fact that they are gouging their customers. The evidence is in the sudden mass expansion of these companies. |
Others have pointed out the flaw in your argument re expansion. It's been explained to you that they have various fixed costs, including the costs of buying and maintaining vehicles, insurances, taxes, tolls, staff, offices, advertising, but if you think there's a massive profit out there waiting to be made why don't you buy a minibus, or a fleet of minibi, and go out there and wipe them all out? (I also don't know what evidence you have for your assertion that lift prices are extortionate? I'm not saying they're not, but what do you base this on?)
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| Me and my better half have worked out that its cheaper for the two of us to hire a basic car and drive from Geneva to Les Arcs (also saving a day's ski pass if neither of us fancy skiing the first day) than to take the 'Ben's bus' alternative. It also means we can then go ski Tignes. Val d'Isere, etc. with ease. There is no economic sense in a family taking the transfer bus. |
So having found your own cheaper and more convenient alternative, your complaint is...?
| RattytheSnowRat wrote: |
| Simplest, easiest way to BStM is the Eurostar. Cheapest is an EJ flight to Geneva then the train to Chambrey, change and go to BStM then take the furniclur up the mountain (having got you lift pass before hand or at the shop at the base of the furnicular). There is no reason why you cannot have a direct train from Geneva Airport to BStM, its just that SNCF don't want to do it. Mountains don't enter in to it. If you are stressed about the change go to Lyon or Grenoble and get a direct train. My advice is to chat with people on the flight and see if there are enough of you going to the train station. If there are then just get a cab from the airport to the train. Otherwise get the bus. |
Ditto. Struggling see why you're so exercised?
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Everything depends on the service you use really. I was in Prague recently, and tried out http://kiwitaxi.com/Czech+Republic/Prague airport transfer there. I liked it really, the prices are lower than average, and the service is still very good. This service works in other cities around the world as well. Maybe, you will like it too
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I must say the cost of travel is not something that particularly bothers me - It's usually dwarfed by the cost of lift passes of course and not really a big percentage of the trip.
I'll tend to go with what suits given the parameters of a particular trip - If it's me and a friend going to Morzine, I'm happy with the €70 each return charged by most of the transfer companies. A family of 4 trip to Chamonix or PdS and I've hired a car in the past.
This Christmas I was all ready to pay for a big people carrier to take 7 of us from Lyon to Tignes but the chalet people offered us a transfer for all of us for €700 or so which is what we've gone for.
The interesting one was train from Manchester to Euston, walk to St Pancras, Eurostar to Paris, Metro to Gare de Lyon, sleeper to Bourg, walk across the road to the accommodation. Not sure I'd do that again 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes I would agree with @emwmarine, but from the point of view that the development of the 3 valleys has been the saving grace of those communities albeit in changed form. The museums show that before the ski areas were developed the population was declining in the mountain communities as people, particularly younger people, went off to pursue jobs in industrialising locations. The ski areas gave them an alternative and new jobs, though perhaps also displacing some people further down the valleys to become commuters to their job locations at ski lifts, grooming, selling passes, etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In some areas many of those involved in running lifts and piste patrol are also farmers, cheese makers. Etc. The busiest times for farmers are summer months so the two industries can be complementary.
But work continues out of the holiday periods too. In the last week I've seen lifts being serviced, predictably. But also seen pistes being "mowed" so that the least possible depth of snow is needed to make them skiable - presumably. This wasn't like haymaking earlier in the year and seemed to be just on the pistes, with longer, tussocky grass off to the sides.
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| Quote: |
I must say the cost of travel is not something that particularly bothers me - It's usually dwarfed by the cost of lift passes of course and not really a big percentage of the trip.
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Must say I usually go skiing 3-4 times per year accompanied by family usually twice, I look to make savings wherever I can. Otherwise I just can't afford the holidays . I usually end up renting a car for family transfers.
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You know it makes sense.
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I see Easybus has service (every hour) from Geneva airport to Chamonix for about 12 euros each way.
Granted it only drops/picks up from Chamonix bus station and not your accommodation, but still, that's very cheap!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, The mowing also reduces avalanche risk on steeper slopes as the long grass doesn't lay down and form a smooth surface. The local Tignes rag highlighted the important of Les Vaches to avalanche safety!
Meanwhile back on thread - if you think transfers are expensive then come out and set up your own business bu undercutting them - I would give you a season!
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FAQ
But it's an interesting question to pose.
