Questions for Americans visiting Trois Vallees

A snowHead

A few questions about how things are done at European ski areas for some Americans (usually ski the sierra - Tahoe) coming for the first time. It will be me, and two friends:

Me - early 40s, advanced intermediate with a little touring experience, but still very inexperienced on powder. Happy to take some lessons. Will ski all day
Friend 1 - mid 30s, very strong and likes to jump off cliffs. Lots of backcountry experience. No real need for lessons. Will ski all day
Friend 2 - mid 30s female (significant other of friend 1), prefers cruising easy blue groomers. Will likely only ski a few hours per day and likes lessons.

Both friend 1 and I will have touring gear with us.

In the US, I often take few AM group lessons over a week of skiing and then spend the afternoon/other days skiing with Friend 1 (we'll take the same general line, with me choosing a more conservative approach and him looking for cliffs to jump off). He spends all day all over the mountain. We'll also generally get together with friend 2 for a bit, but realistically her level is so far below that it's difficult for us all to do any serious skiing together.

Both Friend 2 and I will likely want to get some lessons in. Friend 1 will definitely want to ski off piste, and I'd like to be able to join him. Obviously, skiing off-piste in an unfamiliar area by ourselves isn't something we really relish. What is the best plan for us to take during our two weeks at Trois Vallees? How do lessons work there (have to sign up for a whole week? Can do day-by-day? General cost and recommended schools?). For friend 1, what's the best way for him to optimize his off-piste time with me hopefully getting to tag along a significant amount of the time?

All help/recommendations appreciated!

A snowHead

You and friend 2 are easy to cater for. FrIend 1 is a bit more difficult as advice varies by avy risk status.

Easiest option is to book a private day lesson early in the stay with an appropriate ski school or guide. Pick a guide for touring but there are definitely instructors who have all the kit and will show you good offpiste routes. Recommendations vary by resort but New Gen are in all valleys and Brits and you can talk to them about your needs. Phillipe at Prosneige in ValT is an excellent guide/instructor as many she will testify.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

First, decide which resort you want to stay in! Though all the 3v resorts would suit in some way, for friend 2, I think I'd look at Courchevel 1650 (or Moriond as its now officially called) or Couchevel 1850. Some people are real fans of Meribel. It's attractive, Central, very English speaking, with some good intermediate skiing, though I personally think the runs towards the bottom of the ski area and the lift can be quite tricky. Some accommodation is a bit of a way from the lifts. It does however offer a good amount of skiing at or below the tree line which is nice for snowy days. The general rule of thumb is that there are trees up to about 1900-2000m, then it's open. So Val T hasn't a twig in sight! (And there aren't really any pine forests at all in the Belleville Valley, I think that's because lower down its still used for summer pastures for the cows and goats). Trees are denser that in North America, though there are some bit of off piste through the trees, it's not as common.
For a bit more charm and for easy lift accessed off piste above the village, you may want to look at St Martin de Belleville (confession-that is my fave resort in the whole 3v).
As well as "official" websites, you might find the following helpful... Www.latania.co.uk and www.merinet.com.

I was in Tahoe last season (the one with no snow). The ski area of the 3V is VAST by comparison.
Timing- if you can avoid the 4 week block from 6th feb-6th March, that would be good (French school holidays, a week at a time staggered across the various regions of France). Especially the 13th Feb onwards, as that will cover the UK Half term and Belgium too.
You can book lessons individually. Private lessons are WAY cheaper than Tahoe. The resorts do not have a monopoly on the ski school provision. Very Happy

. There are plenty of native English speaking ski schools and instructors dotted around the resorts, especially Meribel, Courchevel 1850, 1650, La Tania. Ski New Generatiom operate out of all of those plus St Martin de Belleville.

Having said that, we have had huge fun skiing on and off piste with Vincent Suchel who works for "Ski school" -based in Les Menuires and St Martin.
As you know, with a couple of exceptions in the 3v marked as "Liberty Ride", off piste in France is not patrolled or avi protected. People nevertheless launch themselves down the side of the mountains with reckless abandon (sometimes myself included I'm ashamed to say). My advice would be definitely get a guide. The ski area is so big you really do need to know where you are going. There is plenty of lift swerved off piste, everything from the bleak and barren high glacial areas above Val Thorens, to skiing down through high mountain pastures past the stone summer barns and chalets which are shut down for the winter.

And finally...don't forget to do like the Europeans and stop for a decent lunch. One of the greatest pleasures of skiing in Europe for mixed ability groups such as yourselves is deciding where to meet for lunch /hot chocolate/ vin chaud on the mountain after you have completed your morning lessons.

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I think it's wise to issue a bit of a warning on going off-piste alone (what Friend 1 is planning to do in the mornings). Unlike the US, only the prepared rus are controlled and patrolled. So going alone is generally not a good idea. If you're out of sight, you won't be found if something happens.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Insurance works differently too. You need one which covers off piste skiing as defined in Europe. There are no "resort boundaries ". Pistes are marked with green, blue, red or black markers. Once you are two metres outside the poles you are "off piste".

You'll need to Register first of course.

Though the ski schools generally have off piste classes and take groups of skiers off-piste accordning to s schedule, the best place for an off-piste guide for friend - 1 is Le bureau des guides. They usually have an office in most ski resorts. The office will then contact one of the mountain guides in the region who will take you and your friend to the best places. However, they are not ski instructors so you may need to take lessons yourself. They will also frown upon "jumping off cliffs" since they are very safety orientated with the intention of taking their clients out into the mountains and getting them back safely.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

1. What brings you to Europe ?

2. What is your favourite resort back home ?

3. How long are you here for ?

I have loads of questions for Americans visiting the Trois Vallee Toofy Grin

After all it is free

I would absolutely strongly recommend Ski Marmalade for you and TDCski for friend 2. Slightly more expensive than the ESF but miles better value.

Personally I would stay in Meribel because of its centrality. 3v is so big that getting from Courch to Val T and back takes half a day in itself.

January 30th - February 6th I will be staying in Méribel-Mottaret and do lots of off-piste skiing, if conditions allow (nothing crazy, just lift-served easy stuff). I can imagine your Friend 1 accompanying us once or twice. We're no guides, but know our stuff in avalanche satefy and at least he will not be skiing alone. If you will be skiing in Meribel, this could work.

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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Apologies folks — I posted something that I thought was light-hearted, but on re-reading it, and seeing the comments it was not.

So I have deleted the comments.

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@PeDaSp, maybe @aliebling, and his friends are polite and open minded and would not be culture shocked NehNeh

Your second point is full of contradictions - the thing you describe is exactly the definition of a competitive market environment, rather than socialism...

@aliebling, do not worry, 3v is a great place and @tccambs's advice on TDC and ski marmalade is spot on!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I would suggest meribel also. Friend 2 can ski blues anywhere. From Meribel you and friend 1 can get to courchevel or VT and back in afternoon. That won't work from courchevel 1650

A snowHead

@PeDaSp, your trolling right?

Got to be, or perhaps you are just an idiot.

Either way not very helpful.

A snowHead

@thecramps, @pam w, @mooney058, @johnE,

Sorry folks, you are right. I was trying to be light-hearted - but on re-reading my comments, they came across all wrong.

So I have deleted it. I should be more careful on the internets! Embarassed

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Why the 3v? There are better choices to solve your needs..

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@aliebling, if you decide to stay in the middle of 3v then you still have a choice between the older/lower Meribel and Meribel Mottaret. Lots of choices

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

If you're going to be based in Meribel then you could organise some off piste lessons / guiding with Florent Jauffred (Flo). He's a great instructor and a really nice guy who teaches with Magic in Motion in Meribel. He's the kind of guy who goes off and has fun in the mountains on his days off. You can see the kind of skiing he does in his videos here http://www.zapiks.com/profil/flotime/

For private lessons you can book half or full days. With Magic they'd be around 200 Euro / 400 Euro respectively. Full details are on their website http://www.magicfr.com/

I've used Magic for group lessons in the past and booked private lessons with Flo for the last three years. You don't have to be a thrill seeker to book him but if you're looking for someone to show you some fun in the mountains then he's the person I'd recommend.

After all it is free

I have a lot of ski information and links on my website (click on signature link below) If you want to ski all the 3V's during the week I would base yourself in the Meribel (middle) valley and I would recommend Mottaret as the highest and best linked. Have fun !!

Some old (but still good) info for expert skiers here:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dennis.summerbell/skiing/skiingindex.html

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Agreed. If you're thinking of where to stay then Mottaret has a definite advantage for those who want to go off exploring the 3 Valleys. Meribel itself has a better choice of accommodation, shops, night life, etc but Mottaret is better for heading off and exploring. It can take 20 minutes to reach Mottaret from Meribel (a lift and a ski), but getting to Meribel from Mottaret is just a 5 minute ski so you aren't compromising on ski access by being based in Mottaret.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

And if you want a ski school who can cater or cliff jumpers and intermediates have a look at www.SkiMarmalade.com , all the instructors there are long term locals and native English speakers (and generally a bit nuts)

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As a piste monster rather than freeskier here are a couple of thoughts for the benefit of friend 2 if she is skiing alone in the main piste area. Please note , this is based on very limited Canadian skiing (Whistler for one trip and Ontario local hills), not USA and a comparison with other French resorts since I last skied 3V so long ago it doesn't count, so this may not be accurate for comparing your mountain with 3V but is worth thinking about to prepare an inexperienced skier for Europe.

1. Pistes are not policed like they are in Canada (and I presume US?), do not expect patrollers to be enforcing "slow zones" etc. They will respond to incidents (usually very well and professionally) but they are not as prominent (or as many) as I saw in Canada and don't usually intervene except in incidents. Only small dedicated kids and ski school areas will be obvious "learner" areas, everything else is a free for all so beware the high speed idiots screaming down.

2. If snow cover is thin, runs will not normally be closed unless they are completely impassable, or are needed for a race etc. In Canada runs were closed or "not recommended" because of poor snow conditions when they were still perfectly skiable, just a few rocks or bare patches. If you see a warning sign ("de-neigee" for instance) then friend 2 should take it seriously. I once skiied down an open but not recommended run in Les ARCs which turned into sheet ice and then all snow vanished leaving us with a 400m walk to the lift. Warnings in general are not as common or as prominent, I became used to ignoring most warnings in Canada because virtually every run has some sort of warning sign (steep!, ice!, obstructions! etc) most of which related to features which would be normal in Europe, it would be a good idea for friend 2 to take any signs as more significant than at home, at least until she has a feel for the place. Hazards, rocks etc will be marked by crossed poles or netting but you can come on them suddenly without prior warning.

3. As others have said 3V is BIG. Watch out for times and connections to get back to your start point, key lifts can be closed by bad weather, if this happens the lift company will NOT be any help getting you back to the right lift or even valley. If you are lost the patrol will get you down, but you could be a very expensive taxi away from home. Watch the wind forecast and if it is dodgy then make sure you can ski back if lifts close. The tree lined runs at Meribel for instance would be a good bet in bad weather.

Enjoy!

Looking at your ski abilities and requirements I'm not sure the 3v is the best place for you. The 3v is huge but is best for a group of people who want to ski as many kilometres in a week as possible.

It's high, snowsure and vast but there are downsides. It's high and purpose built so no real charm or French feel. European skiing has far more ambience and romance than North American skiing but not in the 3v. There's also not really a huge amount off the slopes as they are resorts not towns

Why not go for a lower, more charming place, St Gervais, Chatel, Megeve and the ladies will enjoy it a lot more. Have a hire car, and being in a lower resort it won't be a huge trek to some really interesting stuff. Drive to chamonix and do the Vallee Blanc - The longest vertical in the world. Cham also has some amazing challenges for your expert friend. Ski for a day in resorts with links to Switzerland or Italy. The Portes du Soleil is vast, more interesting than the 3 Valleys and takes you into different Countries.

I'd make the best of the dollar euro rate and explore a bit . Megeve may even be afordable for non millionaires at current rates.

If you want the best and most extensive skiing in Europe then consider the Dolomites.

You know it makes sense.

That wasn't the original question, but if you want a destination resort where you have to book ahead, and you need to stay in one place for a couple of weeks, then the 3V would be my #1 suggestion. I think that's a brilliant choice.

By comparison the biggest place in North America has about 20 lifts. Just to visit a place with 220 which are well connected and actually ridable is an amazing thing. Mix that with unbeatable convenience and surprisingly good riding for a resort and it's where I'd go in those circumstances.

I can't really advise on the lessons, but probably I would avoid making advance commitments and then work it out once you arrive. You'll know more a day after that than you'll learn from a thousand internet posts. The culture differences are interesting and amusing, in my view.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I feel the 3V would be OK. There's plenty of off piste for those who know how to find it (according to my son. Though he prefers the EK having worked seasons in both
Skier 2 will probably have more fun if she joins a group lesson with one of the excellent ski schools recommended above.

A snowHead

A snowHead

I agree too that you should book ahead if possible, using recommendations from here, from people who do the sort of skiing you are looking for. And for group lessons it's wise to book ahead too - and absolutely essential in the peak holiday periods, which you should avoid if at all possible. Having a group to join will be particularly valuable for someone who would otherwise be skiing alone much of the time - and will enable her to explore much more of the area than would be likely if she was sticking to nearby pistes (which are probably not the best) and maybe find some friends to ski with after lessons. Small groups (6 maximum) are the best. The ESF (French ski school) is significantly cheaper than many of the rest BUT they do sometimes have some big groups.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If you are flexible re resort as long as very large well connected and highly convenient to get onto slopes I would favour EK (Tignes/ Val d'Isere) or Les Arcs. Just better skiing (but don't stay in Val d'Isere if friend 1 doesn't like steep icy slopes..). But can't go wrong with 3v

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The OP so far has yet to put his head above the parapet and may feel a tad overwhelmed by the tsunami of advice and suggestions!

For what it's worth- you can get full alpine charm if you stay in St Martin de Belleville, and a decent amount of charm in Meribel . Off piste opportunities are ample.
Skimottaret is rightly an expert on the area, being based in Meribel Mottaret for the winter. While I accept his knowledge of the area may be second to none(I doff my cap wink

), it's hard to see how Aigle (the long red run back down into Mottaret from the Couchevel side) is anything other than a right horror for a modestly able intermediate at the end of the day skiing back to base.
The Espace Killy (Val D'Isere and Tignes) are rightly recommended, but whether you prefer the EK or 3V is a matter of personal taste. I prefer the 3v for the sheer variety,. For someone from the USA either would be a great experience , though for the sheer bragging rights of having skied in the largest fully lift linked ski area in the world, the 3v has something extra to offer.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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@Mistress Panda, when you enter your local pub and offer high fives to staff working there, what reaction do you expect? Same if you go to a football stadium and do the same to the staff working there - ever tried? People are working, simple as that. However, whenever I ask for advice or help, I always got it from lifties, including a detailed explanations of where to find best snow for particular conditions.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I don't think "high fives" are a big thing in France, except possibly with maximum irony. I've never seen a liftie doing a "high five" with anyone, maybe they are just rather surprised and confused? Laughing

After all it is free

What is a "high five"?

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Thanks for all the feedback. Some further comments and answers to some of the questions as well. Firstly, none of us ski backcountry alone and we know how to use our avy gear. Friend 1 can still enjoy himself on-piste, but he will want to get off it a fair amount (and the two off us together, as well). My guess is that this will involve a hired guide for him solo some and then some time for us together either with or sans guide (or both). We also have no issue with French culture - my french is decent and Friend 2 is Québécoise.

Our home ski area is Kirkwood, near Tahoe. It isn't the biggest, but it is one of the steepest and generally considered fairly stout. Friend 1 and i ski any conditions - icy, whiteout, whatever and pretty much from open to close. Friend 2 is more of a fair-weather skier. We're in France simply to enjoy the skiing, French food and French people (though maybe not many of those to be found in Trois Vallees wink

). We prefer to be in one location and not have to drive - more time and energy for skiing. Thus the size of 3V is appealing for a two week stay. Also, we'll be there from Jan 15th-30th, so hopefully avoiding the various school holidays yet being far enough in the season to have some good snow.

We're currently booked in to a place in Val Thorens. How much of a difference will that make for our being able to ski the whole place? Friend 1 and I are both relatively quick and organized, but if it's really an issue, we'll consider somewhere more central (at the cost of our existing deposit). Note that we prioritize ski access over nightlife, so probably Mottaret over Meribel?

We've previously visited the Dolomites and Chamonix, but more for climbing than skiing. This is our first winter trip over. Friend 1 and I are definitely considering a day trip over to Cham for the Vallée Blanche. That said, he's been browsing Les Clés Des 3 Vallées and is plenty excited about the options to be found in Trois Vallees.

My thought is that both I and Friend 2 will sign up for school for the first week and friend 1 can ski by himself or with a guide during that time. During the second week, Friend 1 and I can take more backcountry excursions (with or without guide as appropriate). Seem reasonable?

If we stick with Val Thorens, recommendation for schools and guides there?

Thanks again!

Edi to add: restaurant reservations for lunch/dinner: how does one usually go about making them? Telephone, pop in, internet?

Help!!

Questions for Americans visiting Trois Vallees

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