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Adult skier suing 6 year old for £25,000 over Austrian skiing accident

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/11828586/Six-year-old-girl-sued-over-Austria-skiing-accident.html

FFS Puzzled


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 28-08-15 9:20; edited 2 times in total
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Sounds like the woman's fault in the first place.
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What a load of Cr*p!!!!

Surely the woman (and hence forth will be named hunk of ham) failed to adhere to rules 2, 3 and 4 of the Ski Way Code!!

If I was the childs parents I'd be counter suing on the basis that the hung of ham on planks failed to do any of the above!

Im surprised the courts are even entertaining it and for them to say that the child wasn't concentrating at the time..... well its a 6 yo, their brain is never engaged for that long.

Time to sue my son, as witnessing his emergency C-Section has scared me for life, I'm getting flashbacks and I can't sleep......

The hunk of ham should be ashamed of herself!!
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I don't see why in principle one can't sue a kid, which in reality means the parents or insurers or as it was a class the instructor's insurers. Probably throws into question whether continental Europeans and indeed US domestic carry 3rd party liability insurance. On these facts sounds distinctly ropey but a knee joint copping a helmeted cannonball at terminal velocity might be a different matter.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, But the woman was over taking the child, so I can't see how its the kids fault.

It will all stem around whether the accused either intended to or was responsible for their actions. If they are going to suggest a child of 6 is responsible, then we will be sending half of the kids uk to young offenders institutes......
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Agree re facts on this case. Doesn't someone have to be responsible for kids'actions though or do they get a free pass on skiing, scootering,cycling TWOCing into people?

Yours disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.
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I'd be questioning the adult's knowledge of the FIS rules....
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A friend whose family mostly lives in Austria had a horrible knee injury standing right at the side of the piste blowing nose of 3 year old when an 8 year old at terminal velocity in a potty crouch with helmet on smashed into the side of her leg. Austria's finest surgeons couldn't mend it. I don't think she thought of suing the brat's parents but it would have been justified.
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I can't see how the child is at all responsible. Surely we give small children and beginners a very wide berth when we pass them. If the the adult was passing the child close enough for a "sudden turn" to cause an accident, the adult is fully responsible for trying to pass too closely IMV. It's tough luck on her having the injury that stops her skiing, but that's just what it is, tough luck.
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pam w wrote:
A friend whose family mostly lives in Austria had a horrible knee injury standing right at the side of the piste blowing nose of 3 year old when an 8 year old at terminal velocity in a potty crouch with helmet on smashed into the side of her leg. Austria's finest surgeons couldn't mend it. I don't think she thought of suing the brat's parents but it would have been justified.


Its a different situation entirely though, and in that situation i'd view the parents responsible for their childs actions.
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Yes, I entirely agree. An overtaking skier has to keep clear. End of.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So, the lady is suing a child for £38,000, as she can 'no longer ski'

She should think of all the money she'll save in future, skiing holidays ain't cheap Laughing perhaps the judge could order her to share the savings with the child!
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M535man wrote:
So, the lady is suing a child for £38,000, as she can 'no longer ski'

She should think of all the money she'll save in future, skiing holidays ain't cheap Laughing perhaps the judge could order her to share the savings with the child!
Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@pam w, if we come across kids we will even go off the side of the piste to give them room, we we're all little or novices once, they have as much right to be there as we do.
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Technically since the child was under the supervision of a ski instructor at the time she could in theory have tried suing the ski school, but to sue a child of 6 sounds like she is trying it on, especially as apparently she was in at least as much wrong as the child
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D G Orf wrote:
she could in theory have tried suing the ski school,
She tried and failed - court dismissed her claim
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PaulC1984 wrote:
D G Orf wrote:
she could in theory have tried suing the ski school,
She tried and failed - court dismissed her claim


What, so she is now suing the kid instead? rolling eyes I trust the court will do as previously then and dismiss her claim (and of course award costs against her)!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Good grief
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Alastair Pink wrote:
PaulC1984 wrote:
D G Orf wrote:
she could in theory have tried suing the ski school,
She tried and failed - court dismissed her claim


What, so she is now suing the kid instead? rolling eyes I trust the court will do as previously then and dismiss her claim (and of course award costs against her)!


I know its utterly ridiculous. You'd hope that the kids defence just throw the FIS code at her (and hopefully take her teeth out with it). Im glad she cant ski again, we dont need morons like this on our slopes! First time in a long time that a thread has really p*ssed me off, but this poor kid wont have a clue whats going on bless her and has no doubt had to be interviewed etc. As a parent id be sharpening the kitchen knives!! (metaphorically obviously!)
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£25,000 seems such a small & precise amount considering the lady in question can no longer ski.

Methinks she didn't have insurance and is trying to recoup the medical costs.
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Mike Pow wrote:
£25,000 seems such a small & precise amount considering the lady in question can no longer ski.

Methinks she didn't have insurance and is trying to recoup the medical costs.


Indeed, thats a thought. not sure how their medical system works since she wasn't out of her own country she wouldn't be under travel insurance.
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I don't see how a 6 year old on skis can be responsible for anything. It's any adults responsibility to avoid them.

+ skier, above, etc.
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To crash that badly it sounds like a case of "too fast too close".
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PaulC1984 wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
£25,000 seems such a small & precise amount considering the lady in question can no longer ski.

Methinks she didn't have insurance and is trying to recoup the medical costs.


Indeed, thats a thought. not sure how their medical system works since she wasn't out of her own country she wouldn't be under travel insurance.


ours covers us for holidays full stop even in this country.

However i now expect she will have quite a bit in legal costs Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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So she was probably bitten by a ski school 'snake'? Rule No1, give 'snakes' a wide berth.

Then again I'm probably making assumptions based on it being a school trip of 6yrs olds. Since most Austrian 6yr olds seem to be able to ski better than I can though, it could well have been on a black piste. Either way, short of more facts, it would appear the woman was at fault. Either skiing too fast, too close, beyond her ability, or not paying attention (possibly all of these).
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I generally assume kids will be kids, ie they will enjoy going too fast, they have the attention span of a goldfish and they do EVERYTHING suddenly. You give them a wide berth and assume that you (the adult) are responsible for avoiding them. I do not think parents should try to make them ski like cautious little robots, just curb the extreme human cannonballs out there.
Nonetheless it seems mad that anyone, adult or child, could be sued for "making a sudden turn". The overtaking skier is responsible for leaving enough room whatever strange maneuvers the skier ahead does. The only exception would be leaping out of the trees or starting off from stopped straight into someones path which clearly wasn't the case here.
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PaulC1984 wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes, But the woman was over taking the child, so I can't see how its the kids fault.

And you got this idea from what? From this? "The child, who was part of a ski school group, allegedly made a sudden turn into the path of the woman."? Or you were actually there to see it happen? Because from this short description, you can't assume anything, and certainly not who's fault it was.
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Or you were actually there to see it happen? [/quote]

Calm down rolling eyes

I take your point, I and other above assume Ski School Group, means the usual 'Snake' and to a degree that assumption is a fair one to make given the age of the child.

I think its also fair to say that the woman was the up hill skier given the child suddenly turn into her path. I would also point out that it is only the woman alleging the child changed direction suddenly - in the childs head they are just making a turn, and I see no reference to witnesses backing this up. The woman could simply be saying this to apportion blame onto the child.

As others have pointed out, children don't have a great attention span, and are prone to loss of control / changing direction quickly. We all know this, its common sense surely!

I ski fast, albeit never beyond my ability, and regardless to the FIS code I have a responsibility to ensure 3 things - 1) that I don't endanger those around me, 2) that I can stop / change direction quickly and 3) That I don't ski too close to others in a way that will either effect their skiing or scare the sodding life out of them.

If I am approaching another skier to do over take without fail I will do 3 things - 1) Track their movement and give them plenty of space to take avoiding action, 2) If they are going straight or turning, then I will turn with them to ensure the gap always remains the same - this way if they turn sharper, I'm already carving in the right direction (unless there is adequate space to pass the other side of them). 3) If I'm unsure what they are doing, especially if its a child, slow the hell down! it adds 10 seconds on to my run, whats the big deal. Surely this is common sense??

No the only way I can see this being the kids fault is if either 1) the child was skiing faster, from behind and crossed the womans tracks (which the article doesn't make reference to) or 2) if the child traversed the entire width of the slope (in which case the woman had plenty of time to see and avoid if she was concentrating and skiing within her ability)


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 28-08-15 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

I do not think parents should try to make them ski like cautious little robots

They should make them ski in control - which for some kids will be very slowly, for others very fast. My then 4 year old grand-daughter was skiing on an easy green run just in front of her mother who was calling the turns. She'd done one run very nicely. Next time she ignored the clear call to turn and just took off down the slope. Mother raced after, overtook her and brought her to a halt, thinking the kid would be scared stiff and weeping. Not a bit of it - she'd done it deliberately. She got balled out and taken off the slope immediately. Lesson learnt.
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pam w wrote:
Quote:

I do not think parents should try to make them ski like cautious little robots

They should make them ski in control - which for some kids will be very slowly, for others very fast. My then 4 year old grand-daughter was skiing on an easy green run just in front of her mother who was calling the turns. She'd done one run very nicely. Next time she ignored the clear call to turn and just took off down the slope. Mother raced after, overtook her and brought her to a halt, thinking the kid would be scared stiff and weeping. Not a bit of it - she'd done it deliberately. She got balled out and taken off the slope immediately. Lesson learnt.


OOhhh Pam, I like it - Now that is having common sense and common curtesy! Safety for the child and those around you, with some respect thrown in for good measure Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Instructors, who know a thing or two, don't let kids ski out of control.
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pam w wrote:
Instructors, who know a thing or two, don't let kids ski out of control.


Indeed I agree, but kids can be out of control sometimes, not willingly, just because they lose control, catch an edge, get tired etc and thats why you give them extra room. Clearly others don't have that level of common sense
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Yes, sure you give them extra room. My absolute nightmare is running into a child in a ski school class. Shocked But being taught to ski in control isn't becoming a "little robot". My brother in law used to annoy the hell out of my sister always taking his kids up for "one last run" when they were tired and should really have stopped for the day. The lad never forgave his dad for laughing as he skied past him on a little rat run through the trees, where the lad had shot off the path and ended upside down, hanging by one ski in a bush. Stupid behaviour (on the part of the father, that is).
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pam w wrote:
Yes, sure you give them extra room. My absolute nightmare is running into a child in a ski school class. Shocked But being taught to ski in control isn't becoming a "little robot". My brother in law used to annoy the hell out of my sister always taking his kids up for "one last run" when they were tired and should really have stopped for the day. The lad never forgave his dad for laughing as he skied past him on a little rat run through the trees, where the lad had shot off the path and ended upside down, hanging by one ski in a bush. Stupid behaviour (on the part of the father, that is).


Couldn't agree with you more. There is a gentle nudge, and then there is breaking a child. I don't think Col the Yeti meant anything by his comment - he (it think - hard to tell from username) is right that kids need freedom, but as you say we as parents / adults should keep them under control as we are (or should be) the responsible ones.

I always liken it to giving a child a quad bike and say S*d it, off you go down that Motorway (Autobahn, highway for all you weird foreigners Happy ) at 40MPH plus - you just wouldn't do it, so why on the slopes?......
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My daughter is not over-protective of her kids by any means. They are now 3 and 5 and regularly ride both 2 wheeler bikes and scooters in the skate park (I can hardly bear to look). But she and my SiL are both teachers and good at being 100% consistent, never making a threat they don't intend to carry out and encouraging the trying of new things. Even the little one can begin to paddle the kayak a bit and both are body surfing down at Hayling Beach right now. But they have to do as they are told!
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pam w wrote:
My daughter is not over-protective of her kids by any means. They are now 3 and 5 and regularly ride both 2 wheeler bikes and scooters in the skate park (I can hardly bear to look). But she and my SiL are both teachers and good at being 100% consistent, never making a threat they don't intend to carry out and encouraging the trying of new things. Even the little one can begin to paddle the kayak a bit and both are body surfing down at Hayling Beach right now. But they have to do as they are told!


I like your family Happy. We are the same with our 3yo, although last night he came out with a cracker.

Theo: Daddy, please can I have more toys out of the box
Me: No its reading and bed time.
Theo: Id like to negotiate (serious, the world negotiate coming out of a 3yo)
Me: Mummy and Daddy don't negotiate with you
Theo: Well if your not going to negotiate, I would like the right answer and the right answer right now please (with a finger waving)

Well I couldn't keep a straight face (whilst mumbling you stubborn, cheeky little S*d under my breath) Toofy Grin

I didn't know what to do - How can you chastise a child for using big words, great sentences, perfect manners and good conversational skills at 3yo like that lol.

To cut a long story short, we read a book Happy

Anyway slightly off topic hehe
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I didn't mean kids should be out of control, they have to be able to react to things in front of them, and not go so fast that they can't stop if needed. I meant that adults should not assume that kids will ski in a neat crocodile in PERFECT control, learning means pushing yourself and that means you make mistakes, kids also like excitement so they will try something inventive, get it wrong and get out of control, how many times have you seen "snake dominos" as one takes out the rest of the class. The instructor would then stop them, calm things down and start again. Anyone passing such a group should expect "brain fade" at any moment and be ready to deal with it.
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Col the Yeti wrote:
I didn't mean kids should be out of control, they have to be able to react to things in front of them, and not go so fast that they can't stop if needed. I meant that adults should not assume that kids will ski in a neat crocodile in PERFECT control, learning means pushing yourself and that means you make mistakes, kids also like excitement so they will try something inventive, get it wrong and get out of control, how many times have you seen "snake dominos" as one takes out the rest of the class. The instructor would then stop them, calm things down and start again. Anyone passing such a group should expect "brain fade" at any moment and be ready to deal with it.


Whats a Crocodile, Surely you mean a Pizza Happy

Snake dominos are fun to watch bless them, I do stop and help when I can, as instructors abroad aren't the Navy Seals - They never slow down for their fallen comrades or go back to save them Happy
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All this talk or kids skiing reminds me of my two skiing down some bumps last year, parallel to one another and then both turning inwards onto the same upslope of the same bump at the same time, ending up with a sisterly hug as their skis got tangled. Comedy slow-mo collision.
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PaulC1984 wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
£25,000 seems such a small & precise amount considering the lady in question can no longer ski.

Methinks she didn't have insurance and is trying to recoup the medical costs.


Indeed, thats a thought. not sure how their medical system works since she wasn't out of her own country she wouldn't be under travel insurance.


The article doesn't state that the lady in question is Austrian.
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