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Living in Austria?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello snowheads.
Do any of you live in Austria full time?

I am looking for some advice regarding moving to Austria. My partner and I wish to escape the 9 to 5 life in UK and move to Austria. We've been on summer and winter holidays in this beautiful country, and we fell in love with it.

We intend to buy an apartment house with 3-5 apartments, one apartment for us to live in and the other for either tourist or long term rental, providing our living income. I think we would prefer to live in a dual season resort such as Zell am See or Kitzbuhel but these command top prices. We've seen some attractive properties advertised in Bad Gastein but some people say that the town is quite depressed. Ebensee, Mittersill, Saint Michael im Lungau are other areas with some interesting properties. We've been advised to check out Styria, as climate is milder and prices are lower, or Carinthia. What are your opinions of these areas?

How do you find life in the mountains? Do you regret moving to Austria?

Any advice or opinions are welcome. Thank you.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We don't live in Austria full-time - mainly in the winter. Our place is on the Salzburgerland Sonnenterrasse and we look across the valley to the access to Gasteinertal. Now been there for 10 years. We don't rent anything out, but have looked into it with professional input. The perceived wisdom is that any holiday let business plan should consider only 15 letting weeks budget for the whole year, any more than that is a bonus.(possible life saver!).

When we first moved we were introduced to an English couple who had set up a B&B in a new build. They too had been on holiday and loved(the idea) of the life style. They ran a good outfit and were busy for most of the winter season with weekly British holiday makers. In the summer season it was difficult to get walkers and general tourists. Furthermore, the tourist office usually sent one night stopovers that generated work without much return. After a couple of seasons they found that the B&B proposition was actually quite hard work - it included daily room cleaning etc. They changed the set up to self catering flats with breakfast option to let for the duration and that eased the workload, i.e. end cleaning only, but summer was still a problem with occupancy. They sold up and returned to the UK a couple of years ago having decided to prioritise their sons education, but they had lived their dream.

Our own investigations resulted in the conclusion that any affordable properties that came on the market usually needed a makeover. Furthermore, the price of properties did not stack up against the 15 week let rule in terms of return. It was also noticeable that such propositions were usually run by the housewife while the husband had a job elsewhere, i.e. not paid a lot if anything, and they had probably inherited the property in the first instance.

Austria is a lovely country. Salzburgerland is brilliant for us. Everything is so accessible and the local economy doesn't rely solely on skiing. Salzburgerland isn't that well visited by Brits and I suppose not many know of the fantastic ski resorts and mountain walks - it is not all about the sound of music! The mountains are not quite so pointy high as in the Tirol, Italy, Switzerland, or France, but the skiing and walking are great. Just happens to produce many of the Austrian ski champions. Late summer hill walking is good - the 350km Salzburger Almenweg is well signposted. Lots of lakes for watersport.

Outwith the winter snowsport season there are significant gaps in tourist visits despite many attractions for adventure/outdoor/scenic viewing types. It also gets quite hot in the summer. We clocked an outside air temp of 38 deg C in July this year. That said there has been snow at 1000m in August!!(but not often).

As you will no doubt be advised you need to do your homework. If you intend to live there permanently there are no house purchase issues, but if you don't intend to stay there on a permanent basis you will have to either find a place with permission as a second home, or check that you can get permission before you sign on the dotted line - that applies to Austrians as well as non Austrians.

If you find the right place you will feel it is right.

Our agent was Leonard Hauer who has an office on Bischofshofen - he is really good. If he doesn't have anything on his books he will help you find something on the agents network.

H u S REAL Bauträger und Immobilien G.m.b.H
Leonhard Hauer

Sparkassenstrasse 26
A - 5500 Bischofshofen

Tel-Office: +43(0)6462 4770
Tel-Mobil: +43(0)664 2338330

Web: www.propertysalesaustria.com
Web: www.hs-real.eu
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@dorirux, as above and you'll also need to make sure that any property you are interested in can be used as a b&b or holiday apartments. There are local laws which dictate what properties can be used for
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@dorirux, you need to check out the legal situation with regard to long term lets as well. As opposed to the UK market, there is a lot of legislation in place giving protection for the tenants and things that you as the building owner have to provide/ensure. However, it is not as detailed and tenant-friendly as the legislation in Germany. You will need to know the laws and your obligations, because you can be absolutely certain that the tenants do. The bureaucracy involved with any business, tourism based or not, is the biggest hurdle you have to get used to and work with rather than against.

There are several snowHeads on here who live in Austria permanently, most have a variety of jobs and do not depend solely on the rental income for their survival. I live in Germany but quite literally right on the border (my place looks out into Austria), I work as an in-house translator and do not rely on tourism of any kind for my living. Friends have recently sold up their beautiful apartment/B&B (which they had purpose built) and returned to the UK after several wonderful years. Turned out that one of them was not happy after all sharing their "home" with other people on an ever-changing basis!
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Thank you very much for your replies.
We've been told by estate agents to expect 24 weeks of rental per year but I'm beginning to think that this is just the estate agent's optimistic outlook. I guess rentals in Zell am See might be able to achieve 24 weeks but property prices are a lot higher. We are beginning to think that long term lets are a safer bet.

Jimd how do you find the winters in the mountains? Someone told us that the valleys are under fog for weeks in winters and that in the summer it rains for weeks.
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dorirux wrote:
Someone told us that the valleys are under fog for weeks in winters and that in the summer it rains for weeks.


Where do you live now - I was under the impression you were UK based Laughing
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We are in UK.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

It was also noticeable that such propositions were usually run by the housewife while the husband had a job elsewhere, i.e. not paid a lot if anything, and they had probably inherited the property in the first instance.

We went on holiday for several years in a B & B in the Salzkammergut (St Gilgen) which was run on exactly that basis. Maria did the house, Franzl drove a postbus (at mind-blowing speeds......). They hadn't inherited the house but had built it themselves over several years.

Rents in the UK are high, depending on location. Do you have a house you could rent out here, to provide some basic income?

I have a lodger who lives in my house in the UK and pays enough rent to run my apartment in the French Alps. Yes, in the final analysis I'd prefer not to "share my house" but it's an easy source of income and you have to earn quite a lot before you have to pay tax on it (the ceiling has just been raised).
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Hi Pam,

Yes, we have a house in Uk we could rent out while living in Austria. That is one option we are considering however could be subject to capital gains tax if we make our main residence in Austria. The other option is to sell the house here and put the money towards the apartment house in Austria.
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Interesting thread. We are considering either an purchasing an apartment for use or holidays, or doing something similar to your plans @dorirux and a completely move out.

One of the things I did a few weeks ago was look at the bookings for an apartmenthaus for the whole year (they were conveniently on the website and I was fairly confident they were relatively accurate). I was surprised at how good the income seemed - although it was heavily influenced by one of the apartments seemingly being booked for the whole winter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Someone told us that the valleys are under fog for weeks in winters and that in the summer it rains for weeks.


The beauty of the winter months is that there is a lot of sunshine. In our area of Pongau November, December, and early January can be overcast and snowing, perhaps rain at the valley bottom, but in the main significantly more sunshine than the UK - and without the wind so it feels warm from the infra red! Strangely May and early June can be very changeable with some longer spells of overcast and rain, but when the sun comes out it is T shirt and shorts time. Our experience has been more sun than not - thats why we like the winter there so much.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

Someone told us that the valleys are under fog for weeks in winters and that in the summer it rains for weeks.


The beauty of the winter months is that there is a lot of sunshine. In our area of Pongau November, December, and early January can be overcast and snowing, perhaps rain at the valley bottom, but in the main significantly more sunshine than the UK - and without the wind so it feels warm from the infra red! Strangely May and early June can be very changeable with some longer spells of overcast and rain, but when the sun comes out it is T shirt and shorts time. Our experience has been more sun than not - thats why we like the winter there so much.

Perhaps that is why it is called the Salzburg Sunny Terrace!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I have been living in Fieberbrunn now for about six years (after working in Germany for around 30 years). Being retired removes some problems (but brings others). I certainly haven't regretted moving here.

Not surprisingly, the places that attract most tourists will be more expensive for buying the sort of accommodation you are thinking about. The advice about checking legal requirements is important. I had a house built and had to sign that it would be my main place of residence for at least 5 years before I could sell it (though I'm not sure how strictly this restriction would be enforced).

You will have to organise medical insurance. I was privately insured (which is expensive) and continued that. I'm not clear what the situation would be if you were moving from a national system like the NHS.

How's your German? Obviously, life is easier if you know the language but you can manage without.

Styria or Carinthia could well offer more economical properties than popular ski areas in Tyrol or Salzburger Land but I have no personal experience of those areas.

Other people I know have successfully been able to work online to generate income but that depends rather on your line of business and what contacts you have.

The weather can be varied. Last year we had a wet summer, this year was gloriously sunny. In winter river valleys do tend to hold mist, though it does often burn off during the day. That can also apply to places like Zell am See, which often appear to be under cloud while it is sunny up on the Kitzsteinhorn glacier.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

Interesting thread. We are considering either an purchasing an apartment for use or holidays, or doing something similar to your plans @dorirux and a completely move out.

Hammerite, buying a holiday apartment to use for our holidays and to rent out to tourists was our first intention however, as we would not be in the resort to clean, maintain the apartment, do the handover of the key etc we would probably need to use the services of a management company, and this will usually be 25% of the rental income. I've also read that non-residents suffer special penalties, the tax base of each non-resident individual being notionally increased by €8,000. For example, let's say your rental income is €18000 per year, as a non-resident the tax will be actually applied on €26000, of course minus expenses, running costs etc. (http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Austria/Tax-Pages). Snowheads, please correct me if I am wrong.
Moving to Austria, if possible, will mean living the dream, and no one here seems to regret doing it.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Jimd, are you in St Viet then?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Samerberg Sue, No, in Goldegg.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Jimd, Didn't know there were any Ex-Pats in that particular area. I have a lot of friends in the Goldegg/Weng/Böndlsee area, all Austrians though. It is a very interesting wee corner, did you get to know it through Siegi Tours, most non-locals did! wink
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No. Searched most of European ski areas that had a summer, if not all year round attraction. After 6 years searching found Goldegg by chance. Raucous apres ski and bright lights it is not. That is what makes it so attractive when you live there.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

We've been told by estate agents to expect 24 weeks of rental


Hello!

So... these weeks are not 'full' weeks or weeks you would expect to be full. They represent the seasonal weeks. So in Zell there are 24 seasonal weeks of the year ie. there are summer activities and winter activities during this time. It doesn't mean you should expect to be full!
Within these weeks the average (for my area which is mainly 14 weeks in the winter) is 60% occupancy in winter and 40% occupancy in summer. They are the figures to look at.

It is possible to survive out here without having a second income but not on a high mortgage!
We've been here very nearly 9 years doing just that.
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@flangesax, 15 weeks would be a bonus year then depending on area.
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@Jimd, just trying to average it all out really... especially if savings are on the line!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Jimd, definitely quiet, but there is a raucous evening or two at the Metzgerwirt or more usually at the Rustika Stadl in St Viet when Siegi Tours gets going - http://www.siegitours.com/packages/entertainment.htm
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It is definitely true that summer in the Northern Alps is comparably wet, and the wet weather can linger for days, because of the mountains.
Summer 2015 is exceptionally hot and dry!
Winters are dry, but you'll indeed have to check the notorious fog-valleys.
Southern Alps (Styria, Ost Tirol, Carinthia, Dolomites) have much more sun all year through (and thus often lack of snow!)
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@Samerberg Sue, Thats another good reason to live in Goldegg.
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http://www.goldeggamsee.at/index.php?id=369&L=1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Houses for sale in Goldegg are rare, however, here is a link to an apartment house for sale to give you an idea of price in this area http://www.hagaimmo.at/suche.php?objekt=1768. Goldegg has an 18 hole golf course that attracts summer visitors as well.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Jimd,
Quote:

Searched most of European ski areas that had a summer, if not all year round attraction. After 6 years searching found Goldegg by chance. Raucous apres ski and bright lights it is not. That is what makes it so attractive when you live there.

Why do you like Goldegg? Sorry, I haven't been in this area.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@dorirux, very central, has a reputation for being a quiet but sunny terrace (S and SE facing) and has good air (Luftkurort) due to the way in which the winds keep the still air moving. Easily reached from the motorway and fabulous skiing all around! wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Goldegg is a small village circa 2400 inhabitants. Good access from the main road in the valley and train station -circa 3km. 50 mins easy drive from Salzburg airport. It is on the salzburg sunny terrace and a very scenic location. It has its own small village ski slope ideal for children and beginners, but the village does have its share of Olympic, World and Austrian ski champions of all ages so they must be doing something right - some locals reckon it is the water most of which is sourced nearby Very Happy. Probably more to do with the village culture. The village is surrounded by nearby ski resorts in the Hochkoenig to the North and Sportwelt, Gasteinertal, and Grossarl to the South. Two glaciers and 800km of Alpine skiing within 1 hour drive/train/bus. Two good swimming lakes for the summer - open from May. For those of that persuasion an 18 hole golf course with incredible scenery, May-October. Fabulous hillwalking part of the Salzburg Almenweg. Salzburg with all that it has easy to reach. Italian and Adriatic riviera within 3.5 hours.

Fortunate to have permission for a Zweitwohnsitz, but not a problem for permanent residence. Council actively encouraging more letting beds in sympathetic style. German friends call it paradise.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@flangesax,
Quote:

the average (for my area which is mainly 14 weeks in the winter) is 60% occupancy in winter and 40% occupancy in summer.

Hello flangesax. Which is your area, if you don't mind me asking?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@dorirux, we are in the salzburger Sportwelt, Ski Amadé area.
We live in Radstadt.
Have a look at the couple of links in my sig.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Radstadt another good strategic location perhaps without the expense of the neighbouring Altenmarkt and Flachau?
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@flangesax,
Very nice... I haven't considered Radstadt before.
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@flangesax, What do you do outside of the 15 weeks? Have you seen a decline or an increase in occupancy ratings compared with when you started or let's say 5 years ago? Is Austria still a sought after destination?
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@Jimd, properties for sale on Flachau are like hens teeth. I think there is too much accommodation available to make summer viable for a new starter there. One of the big hotels hasn't opened at all this summer and Zimmer Frei signs on just about everything that is open. Different in winter though.
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What about Piesendorf/ Niedernsill/ Uttendorf - are these good areas to buy?
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@dorirux: A way too broad question like "Is Austria still a sought after destination?" suggests you need to do a lot more homework.
Check the situation in Lech, where millionaires are buying complete hotels, tare them down, build a posh new building and run it like a pseudo-hotel at roomprices of 100.000 euro per week, at which nobody books a room. Thus defacto these pseudo-hotels are actually private chalets.
This is the only way to come round the strict rules and still have a property in Lech. You might say Lech is a "sought after Austrian destination" Very Happy
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@Langerzug, I was asking because I was told that a lot of resorts are empty in summer and some are even struggling in winter.
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@Langerzug, I was asking because I was told that a lot of resorts are empty in summer and some are even struggling in winter.
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