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iTitans too heavy, X-Kart too bland, what next?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I am 180cm, 80kg, have ski'd for 25 years a few weeks every year. Having rented for many years and been unimpressed with the hit and miss, I bought some iTitan's second hand a couple of years ago. They are great on groomed pistes, not very usefriendly in the afternoon when things get cut up (maybe too long for me at 170cm, and feel very heavy - heaviest skiis I have ever come across), and require more commitment than I am willing to put in once the day wears on. I tried a pair of Salomon X-Kart (165cm) and loved them because they addressed all the issues I have with the iTitans, BUT, they felt a bit unstable at speed, a bit soft, and as though I had stepped too far in the other direction. I am looking for a ski somewhere between the two - nice and stiff, short radius ski for groomed slopes which I covet in the morning, but with enough userfriendliness to have all day comfort and handle afternoon bumps and slush. I consider myself to have good but not immaculate technique, I prefer shorter turns and more technical to fast skiing, and seldom venture from a prepared piste. I am considering Atomic Edge SL and Nordica Spitfire Ti or Fisher Progressor 900, etc. - am I looking in the right place?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Head Supershape Magnum 163cm. More 'turny' than the Titan.
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@Daydreamer, welcome to SHs : snowHead

What do you mean by "too heavy"?
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Fischer superior pro are rather good, very piste biased, i love mine in 165cm

http://www.sport-conrad.com/ski-alpin/ski/race-ski-inkl-bdg/rc4-superior-pro-rsx-12-pr-sc.html

the progressors have turned from 700, 800 and 900 to f17, f18, and f19 this season and are a little different

so if you want a 900 then here

http://www.sport-conrad.com/ski-alpin/ski/on-piste-ski-inkl-bdg/progressor-900-pr-rsx-12-pr.html
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Daydreamer wrote:
not very usefriendly in the afternoon when things get cut up


Really??

Titans are amazing in crud, much better than you'll find the Magnums. Magnums will be Better (marginally) in icier conditions.

I have all sorts of skis, from SL to full blown Off Piste, but Titans are always my first weapon of choice (If I could only take one pair away with me - luckily I always take a choice Happy )
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I'm 183cm, 100kg and have a set of 177cm iMagnums. And I love them. Haven't had a chance to use them on real snow yet but have had a few sessions indoors at Braehead. I was using them on SUnday and deliberately went through the area after the race training was finished as it was cut-up and lumpy and the sailed through it.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I did not like the Magnums. I'm 6', 85 kg and I felt the Magnum didn't leave my knees in one peace. I felt like I was all the way through them (in terms of damping) just by standing on them.

I love the Fischer Motive 86 TI (2014-15 model or later) and the K2 AMP Rictor 82 TI. Both hard snow skis with properties to make your afternoons go like a breeze.

I love my Fischer RC4 Worldcup SC also, and the Fischer RC4 Superior SC too (love Fischer, can't help it).

I made this comparison last June, when I was in Hintertux trying out (non-FIS) slalom skis...

Here's the post on EpicSki that I wrote about it: http://www.epicski.com/t/141518/hard-snow-carver/60#post_1890120 (post #73)


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 25-08-15 19:02; edited 1 time in total
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I have a pair of Motive 86s too but they are 2012/13 . I could see a situation where I'd ski the Magums in the morning and switch to the Motives in the afternoon.
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@Daydreamer, PERFECT!!!!! Nordica Dobermann Spitfire Ti.... 178cms

Pm me for a BNWT pair with bindings.

Best piste ski ever created!!!!!

These bad boy skis will impress and put you "in position" .... but take no nonsense if you poodle about.

Forget the wannabee piste performers like Head Titan/Magnum the Dobermann Spitfire has a dual radius that incorporates both slalom and GS sidecuts.
These skis were made to do just what you want.
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"Heavy" means very heavy in weight. Perhaps the weight is irrelevant. They are very hard to ski on anything other than hard flat pistes. I ski with friends of similar ability and after trying them we all agree that they are very difficult to ski and non-versatile outside of hard flat pistes. They are typically on Salomon X-Karts or K2 piste skis. Clearly I am not a perfect skier, but I am also thinking there is something wrong with my set as most test comments/ users praise their versatility. Mine feel like they want to kill me when bumpy or slushy. Perhaps demo a (shorter) pair and compare. Still keen on finding a new pair given low euro and plenty of 2014 stock about, looking for something more user friendly when the going gets softer and rougher, but at the same time provides some real bite and turn when the piste is hard and flat. Perhaps asking too much.

178 spitfire Ti would be way too long for me. 168 is more like it I think.
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Should have also said thank for the suggestions and feedback.
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skimastaaah wrote:
@Daydreamer,
Forget the wannabee piste performers like Head Titan/Magnum.


Titans and magnums are far from Wannabee..... I do agree though that the Doberman is an amazing ski
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@Daydreamer, I also wonder if something is not quite right with the setup. What bindings do you have on them? Whilst they are not the lightest skis I don't find them noticeably heavy. I find them as you say, to be remarkably versatile - I've taken them offpiste in typical mixed spring conditions and they were great. Then length doesn't sound wrong - I am 165cm/60kg and I have them in 163cm. I'd be inclined to get someone to look at them...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Daydreamer, 168 is really a slalom ski length, for lightweight/short skiers. With your weight and height stats you should be looking for something a little longer. The Nordica Spitfire comes in a 170 length which I've also skied and found exceptional for short/medium-pace piste skiing, but tetchy at any real speed despite the tenacious edge grip. I'd recommend you go longer only because these skis are incredibly versatile especially on firm/hard pistes. An extra 8 cms equates to about 3 inches, thats 2 inches in front, and just over one inch behind when compared to the 170, and the extra performance at speed is so so worth it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Daydreamer,

In general, I find heavier skis better in cruddy / chopped up conditions in that they don't get deflected as much. I'm also thinking that the titans may be too short for you and that it may be that rather than the weight that makes them a bit frisky when the pistes aren't perfectly groomed. I'm 176 and 78kg and wouldn't go as short as 170 except for a pure slalom ski (which wouldn't be my weapon of choice in the crud).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In time honoured fashion I'm going to recommend what I use. Cool I'm old enough to get a pension, 1.8m, 80kg, recreational skier who skis for 10 days twice a year = 20 days.

I have Volkl Code UVO Speedwall S in 166 (radius 15m).

Maybe I 'should' use a longer ski but I'm not as young as I used to be wink and I wanted something with about a 15m radius with serious edge grip that wouldn't flap around however hard I push them, would be good on ice, and which could perform tight turns and as well as long turns at speed with exemplary edge grip.

These skis I cannot fault them - they are epic.

[edit] I should add that because I can choose when I ski I rarely ski in crud.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 26-08-15 11:25; edited 2 times in total
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irie wrote:


................... I wanted something with about a 15m radius with serious edge grip that wouldn't flap around however hard I push them, would be good on ice, and which could perform tight turns and as well as long turns at speed with exemplary edge grip.


QED...... Nordica Dobermann Spitfire Ti - 178cms!
Toofy Grin
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jedster wrote:
@Daydreamer,

In general, I find heavier skis better in cruddy / chopped up conditions in that they don't get deflected as much. I'm also thinking that the titans may be too short for you and that it may be that rather than the weight that makes them a bit frisky when the pistes aren't perfectly groomed. I'm 176 and 78kg and wouldn't go as short as 170 except for a pure slalom ski (which wouldn't be my weapon of choice in the crud).


+1
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skimastaaah wrote:
irie wrote:


................... I wanted something with about a 15m radius with serious edge grip that wouldn't flap around however hard I push them, would be good on ice, and which could perform tight turns and as well as long turns at speed with exemplary edge grip.


QED...... Nordica Dobermann Spitfire Ti - 178cms!
Toofy Grin


Nope, stiffer and shorter is the route I've gone which suits me perfectly.
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irie wrote:
skimastaaah wrote:
irie wrote:


................... I wanted something with about a 15m radius with serious edge grip that wouldn't flap around however hard I push them, would be good on ice, and which could perform tight turns and as well as long turns at speed with exemplary edge grip.


QED...... Nordica Dobermann Spitfire Ti - 178cms!
Toofy Grin


Nope, stiffer and shorter is the route I've gone which suits me perfectly.


Im half with you both - Im somewhere in between Happy

im 5'9, 75kg and my Slalom skis are 155cm, Piste Skis 163cm Titans and Off Piste 179cm. I Charge around at great speeds and have no problem at all. The Titans in Crud, moguls, groomers, are great, but make me smile most in crud or if its snowed heavy that day - they just seem to come alive and blast everything out of its way Happy
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Thank you all for your time, thoughts and feedback. The more I read, the more I am convinced I have the right ski, but that they are incorrectly set up or just dead. Forgive my ignorance here (and the skis are in a chalet in France so have no access to them at the mo), do skis have a useful life? Mine were well used second hand and very cheap, pretty sure the rebound is less that it is when new - not even sure what year they are. Presumably the binding can be moved back and forth in the assembly? When I say that the skis try to kill me in crud, what happens is that the ski is very difficult to adjust (rear of the ski grips/digs, making it very difficult to slide for control - try moving the weight a bit forward and end up wiping out over the front. Logic would suggest my bindings are in the wrong place (is that possible)? Obviously an exaggeration, but gives an idea of the feeling when skiing these things when going gets heavy.

Zorrac: Re the RC4 recommendation, why the Pro and not the SC? SC too tame?
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What year are the skis? If they are on a plate (as the more modern ones are) they are easy to adjust. Have you every had them serviced? You'd be surprised what a decent edge and wax can do.

Personally id stay clear of the RC4's. Fantastic ski, however they a ski that needs skiing to a degree, can be unforgiving in crud etc and they are pretty stiff. Your knees may not forgive you by the end of the day. If what you want is a piste ski, there are loads of piste performance skis out there, without the need to dip into SL skis.
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Quote:

do skis have a useful life? Mine were well used second hand and very cheap, pretty sure the rebound is less that it is when new - not even sure what year they are. Presumably the binding can be moved back and forth in the assembly? When I say that the skis try to kill me in crud, what happens is that the ski is very difficult to adjust (rear of the ski grips/digs, making it very difficult to slide for control


Ah well... of course skis do have a finite life and that depends on mostly the construction (more wood and metal means more life) but also how hard they are skied. I don't know enough about Titan construction to comment but would imagine it is pretty robust - I'd be looking for 15-20 weeks life. Others may be able to comment.

Your description of the problem is interesting. These kind of modern piste skis tend to have quite a lot of shape to the tail which means they hold onto the end of a carved turn really well but it also means they don't really enjoy skidded turns, particularly at speed. People talk about them being "hooky" in soft snow and I suspect that rings bells for you. The reality is that you need to make a bit more of a conscious effort to get the tails out of the carve (unweight a bit) and you would be right that a lack of rebound wouldn't help with that.

To be honest though, if your favoured style in those conditions is to use a more pivoted style you might find you enjoy a slightly more freeride / somewhat rockered or straight tailed design rather than a purer piste ski. If I find myself in soft, chopped up piste on my more piste skis I tend to stick with carving - I can pivot them but its not as enjoyable.
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Don't know the year, yes they are on plates, yes they have been serviced , waxed, edges sharpened, etc. Tried many non SL skis (rented the dreaded "all mountain skis" for many seasons) found them all very bland without any fizz. Don't get me wrong, I really like my skis, just find them unforgiving in certain conditions, which is contrary to what they are supposed to feel, and oddly enough, found the X-Kart very forgiving and easy to ski on, very adjustable, etc., but lacked the excitement of the iTitans when the conditions are right for my skis. Hence the original question if there were recommendations for a ski somewhere in between - the adjustability and user friendliness of an X-kart, but with the fizz (technical term, that) of the iTitans. Amazing now what you can get for between £250 and £350.
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would have though that "fizz" implied stiffness, liveliness (rebound) and edge grip - doesn't sound like they are knackered yet?
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Perhaps I should spend the money on ski lessons instead.....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Daydreamer, Horses for courses! There's "fizz", and there's "fizz"! Not all bubbly wine is Champagne. Just like someone can appreciate fine wine, the same can go for a more "thoroughbred" pair of skis. But that does not imply that they fully understand the capabilities, specification, or performance characteristics, yet alone be able to use or master these. Best go for something you like, buy them off ebay, if you ski a couple of weeks on them and want a change, put them back on ebay to recoup some cost. Only tip I can give is to do your research well before you buy.
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Daydreamer wrote:
Perhaps I should spend the money on ski lessons instead.....


I think this would be a good idea (not wanting to sound harsh, we all need lessons and a kick up the backside sometimes Happy )

The Fizz / rebound you are getting from your Titans, is good Happy. I love Head skis for this very reason. If you want to be lazy (but still have good technique) they fill look after you, but as soon as you apply a good amount of pressure, its like riding you wife and shouting her sisters name - you get bounced off in all directions Happy. I love that liveliness and spring!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Daydreamer, I tried both superiors, the SC was very good, but something was missing on hard pistes, they were really very good on bumps. The pro was just a bit better at everything. It is stiffer, but is fine in crud / cut up stuff at the end of the day (well i find it is).

It is not as demanding as a RC$ world cup sc as i have a very old pair of them, very very old now with no edge left, the superior is more a ski all day ski than they are, and just as much fun.
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I would recommend the Spitfire Ti as well and another ski worth considering as a bit more forgiving than the Spitfire is the Dynastar CR74 Fluid which I tried at the CFe demo.
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