Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Benefits of Four Wheel Drive?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've driven up to the resorts in Austria in my Forester with Nokian winter/all season tyres when even the ski buses were having to put chains on. It's definitely not underpowered, but is pretty damn thirsty... 20 to 25mpg in the petrol.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Gaza, its not surprising that she couldn't control the gholf at that speed!

The difference between Sweden and the UK is that it is rare for us to drive on snow covered roads. In sweden it is expected and they don't try to melt all the snow with salt like we do. Consequently cars travel at more normal speeds on snow covered roads there.

Two winter tyres will usually be fine here if you apply a little care and slow down. The only issue I have had is the rear wheels sliding on a steep slope with the hand brake applied Confused
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
4wd definitely worth it from the point of view it will help get you moving when stuck but remember it does not make you invincible. After the first snowfall in Calvary each year the ditches are full of 4wd cars. 2wd owners appear to drive with more common sense Smile. In these cases the 4wd seems to just mean that you go into the ditch forward instead of sideways...
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@Posidrive, Do you mean Calgary? If so little bruv reported that it was snowing there yesterday - after 35degs C last week!
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Posidrive, is it that 4WD drivers thing that the important factor is 4WD and thus they are invincible whereas the really important factor is snow tyres which 4WDs are typically not equipped with in the UK.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@under a new name, Probably some truth in that. 4WD will pull away smartly in snow and accelerate well, but braking and turning don't really care much what your drive is, it's the tyre grip that counts. Since I've had AWD and winter tyres I've never needed chains, but large heavier vehicles need to be driven smoothly, especially on descents.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Scarpa, very, very definitely, slow and careful descents.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Valkyrie, For the occasional run to Scotland resorts, your best off with winter tyres on a 2 wheel drive.
The most critical hazard you are likely to face is the slush on the A-roads while you're trying to bat up the M72 or A9. Once you get to the mountain its either open and cleared, or closed. Even is if dumps while in resort, they'll convoy you down behind a plough. Snow tryes on a 2WD beat normal tyres on a 4WD.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
chocksaway wrote:
@Posidrive, Do you mean Calgary? If so little bruv reported that it was snowing there yesterday - after 35degs C last week!

Not surprised. I remember it snowing in August when I lived there. Next day it was over 30C.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name wrote:
@Posidrive, is it that 4WD drivers thing that the important factor is 4WD and thus they are invincible whereas the really important factor is snow tyres which 4WDs are typically not equipped with in the UK.


4wd tends to give a false sense of security so they tend to drive too fast for the conditions. Snow tyres would help but if you drive sensibly then all seasons tyres will do the job in most situations. I survived 4 years on all seasons with a Subaru and all seasons without anything remotely worrying. A 3 day employer funded course on snow and ice driving may have helped though...
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Posidrive wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@Posidrive, is it that 4WD drivers thing that the important factor is 4WD and thus they are invincible whereas the really important factor is snow tyres which 4WDs are typically not equipped with in the UK.


4wd tends to give a false sense of security so they tend to drive too fast for the conditions. Snow tyres would help but if you drive sensibly then all seasons tyres will do the job in most situations. I survived 4 years on all seasons with a Subaru and all seasons without anything remotely worrying. A 3 day employer funded course on snow and ice driving may have helped though...


most situations? Wrong
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I once followed a Landy down the A621 in heavy snow. I have a little FWD Alfa Romeo. I say followed but what I actually mean is I overtook and left him to slither along at a fraction over walking pace. Long live winter tyres...

However I get the earlier point about ground clearance. My car is rubbish at that. It's much better if it's all over compacted snow rather than two channels with a big mound of slush in the middle. For that reason I seek out the lesser used routes.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Don't necessarily assume that an SUV is good in the snow. Last winter I went across the snowy Jura from Lausanne to Besançon in a small convoy of about eight assorted vehicles, two of them SUVs (BMX X5 and a Mitsubishi) both with winter tyres on as well. The X5 ended-up in the ditch after what was only a slight lapse of concentration by the driver (i.e. not stupid driving). The Mitsubishi behind me almost ran into my back. I was in a BMW330d xDrive with winter tyres. The rest included a variety of ordinary FWD and RWD Fiestas, Toyotas with what looked like winter tyres on. Me and the 'ordinary' cars were managing 50-60Kph on the snow, rock-solid, no problems.

Other casualties included a Fiesta obviously without winter tyre, who pulled over and gave up, and a Camry with chains on who also gave up because of the huge wheel judder when he hit thin snow/tarmac sections.

I mentioned this to my dealer when I got back and it became apparent that this problem of the momentum of heavy SUVs is an issue in snow. I've heard the same from Land Rover Discovery owners. Yes, they have greater clearance but that's arguably outweighed by the momentum problem if you're on navigable public roads in the snow. Also, there is the obvious issue in mixed tarmac/snow driving that you can't drive on chains for any length of time and can't be taking them off/on every few kilometres if the conditions are mixed.

Since I got winter tyres, I've never had to resort to using chains in snow. And the last winter trip I made it up the steep slope out of the apartment block on winter tyres when an RWD with chains the day before still got completely stuck. I'd still carry them with me for the worst conditions, though.

Here's the Jura road from February at around 800m where you can see tarmac under the snow and the Toyota had to stop because of judder from the chains. The route was fairly hilly, and rose to 1000m at the maximum, so for about 30Kms it varied between tarmac, tarmac-snow and solid snow.



Actually, the most dangerous part of the trip was the Autoroute around Lake Geneva. Everyone had winter tyres on and trafic was running at 80+Kph really close to each other. Heavy slush was piling-up between the lanes and even well-equipped vehicles wobbled when changing lanes. It was so bad we opted to come off and go via the Jura, rather than carry on the Autoroute west. In these conditions it would be a nightmare/lethal to be on summer tyres and chains would be unusable ion the tarmac.

And to answer the original question about 4WD - First, get winter tyres, whatever you choose. I go for AWD for the main car because it's got a big engine and I like the stability of AWD on a performance car in wet British winters. Our other car is a faithful little FWD Peugeot 206 which has winters and I would have been happy to be in it in the above conditions.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've had no problems, in 12 winters in the Alps, with FWD and 4 snow tyres. Have had to put on snow chains a few times - often because of heavy snow combined with other cars stuck in road. Once you have to pull off the main cleared track to get past, it's more comfortable with chains. No doubt 4WD is a "nice to have" at times but not worth the extra money for me. I needed an occasional 7 seater/convertible load carrier and a full size spare wheel (much more important to me than 4WD). Got the lot, new, for under 12K and wouldn't have been prepared to pay a lot more for a facility needed once in a blue moon (a spare wheel isn't needed often either, but it's a cheap "extra" and a damaged tyre on a mountain road in the night would be no fun). The bad potholes which develop in alpine road surfaces after a bad winter are not kind to tyres.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We have got winter tyres and 4WD on our current Suzuki and I don't recall having to put the chains on in two seasons so far. Previous car was FWD Berlingo, quite the ugliest car around but hugely roomy, and we had winter tyres for that. In three seasons we only once put chains on when there had been some very odd snow, ice conditions overnight and we just needed to get round an uphill bend. Before that was a 4WD Freelander that needed chains occasionally as no winter tyres, and before that a Legacy Outback, which was AWD and again needed chains occasionally as no winter tyres. So from our experience winter tyres are best, preferably with 4WD, then winter tyres with FWD.
EDIT. Now been told that the Freelander was 4WD, had winter tyres and OH can't recall putting on the chains,


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 23-08-15 21:59; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This test of 4wd - 2wd & Winter tyres is pretty definitive.
http://youtube.com/v/mfuE00qdhLA not such a good use of an indoor ski slope though.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
mooney058 wrote:
Posidrive wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@Posidrive, is it that 4WD drivers thing that the important factor is 4WD and thus they are invincible whereas the really important factor is snow tyres which 4WDs are typically not equipped with in the UK.


4wd tends to give a false sense of security so they tend to drive too fast for the conditions. Snow tyres would help but if you drive sensibly then all seasons tyres will do the job in most situations. I survived 4 years on all seasons with a Subaru and all seasons without anything remotely worrying. A 3 day employer funded course on snow and ice driving may have helped though...


most situations? Wrong


Nope, awd or 4wd with all seasons tyres is fine for most situations. If the conditions are such that it isn't then unless it's an emergency you really shouldn't be on the road. Good journey management is as important as anything to stay safe on the road in Winter. A lot of people use snow tyres to compensate for them being really lousey drivers. Too fast, too close, no feel for the way the car is responding, etc. Also helps keeping a decent level of tread on the tyres rather than hoping for the best that the legal minimum is good enough when the snow arrives.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Good journey management is as important as anything to stay safe on the road in Winter

Some truth in that but if I have people arriving at Geneva airport and expecting me to pick them up, they wouldn't be too chuffed if I told them the roads would be easier the following day. I've never used all season tyres and can't comment, but like most of those people commenting on this thread (many of them, like me, spend a lot of time on snowy roads) I find winter tyres great.

The fact that roads are cleared doesn't mean that there isn't snow on them, or that the whole width of the road is cleared. Initially after a snowstorm, or during heavy snow and sometimes several days afterwards quite a lot of snow is left on more minor roads - and sometimes there is just one plough-width cleared for a bit. In really heavy snow the ploughs just can't keep pace. I've driven through a good 8 - 10 inches of snow on a supposedly "cleared" road. But yes, journey management is important - on the chaotic changeover day between Christmas and New Year last season far too many drivers left it too late to leave resort and predictably spent hours in jams. The snow only started about 0600 - as forecast - and a bit of forethought could have made for a much easier journey for people leaving resort. For those driving into the Alps, including those picking up hired cars at airports, there were fewer options - and nowhere to stay. Even school halls and gymnasiums were being used to house people and it was the lucky ones who got into them. Many slept in their cars and roads up to most resorts were completely jammed. On that day the police were insisting on chains for everybody including 4WD vehicles without winter tyres but too little, too late - by that time lots of poorly equipped cars had got stuck, and added to the chaos.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Jake43 wrote:
This test of 4wd - 2wd & Winter tyres is pretty definitive.


Have a look at page 1 of this thread.

Very Happy
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
[quote

Quote:
Nope, awd or 4wd with all seasons tyres is fine for most situations. If the conditions are such that it isn't then unless it's an emergency you really shouldn't be on the road. Good journey management is as important as anything to stay safe on the road in Winter. A lot of people use snow tyres to compensate for them being really lousey drivers. Too fast, too close, no feel for the way the car is responding, etc. Also helps keeping a decent level of tread on the tyres rather than hoping for the best that the legal minimum is good enough when the snow arrives.
[/quote]

Lousey drivers drive also on summer tyres in summer, but that is not the topic. All season tyre is a compromise, and not "fine for most conditions". To the list you named you should also add tyre preasure too. Driving on winter tyres is not a panacea, especially if it is a cheap Chinese brand with just 'winter' or 'snow' writen on them. All season tyres are ok where it does not snow and if it does you leave a car at home and take a train/bus/metro. On snowy and icy roads, all season tyres are not fine.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I've only driven two cars in snow. My Duster with 4wd and winter tyres feels a lot more secure than my ex's Opel Astra with winter tyres.

I felt secure driving (carefully!!) over the Arlberg Pass in the worst whiteout/blizzard conditions and fresh snow that I plan to ever encounter in the Duster, and didn't need chains.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
mooney058 wrote:

All season tyre is a compromise, and not "fine for most conditions". All season tyres are ok where it does not snow and if it does you leave a car at home and take a train/bus/metro. On snowy and icy roads, all season tyres are not fine.

From experience, I disagree completely but let's be sure we're talking about the same thing. You don't mention your location but in the US an "all-season" tyre is a European "summer" tyre. In Europe, an all-season tyre is a winter-biased tyre, with sipes for snow, that doesn't disintegrate in higher temperatures. Like Posidrive, I have done a season in extremely heavy weather in a Subaru with Nokian WR G2 "all-season" tyres and the car was rock solid. I've also worked a season driving a Land Rover Defender on full winter tyres and the Subaru was much safer, especially going downhill.

I agree with your point about buying quality, though. Many cheap Chinese winter tyres perform abysmally in tests. in contrast the afore-mentioned WR G2s out-performed all but the very best pure winter tyres in Autobild tests at the time. Vredestein Quatracs are the other all-season tyre that regularly out-performs full winter tyres in winter tyre tests.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks for all the info folks, entertaining and educational as always on Snowheads. We bit the bullet yesterday and ordered a new Nissan QQ ( I've ordered a car I can't spell Embarassed ) Its the diesel with front wheel drive. Nissan dealer doesn't do winter tyres so I'm off to do a bit of research on winter tyre/wheel selection. The Nissan has 18" alloys so I suspect it might be cheaper to buy tyres on basic 16" or 17" wheels.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Valkyrie, We had 19 inch summer alloys but fitted 16 inch winters an alloy (surprisingly cheap). Worked fine
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@msej449, how did you know what the other cars' tyres were? I find it difficult enough to read the markings on mine while stationary...

The problem in my experience is that the road you kindly posted a picture of doesn't have enough snow on it for snow chains to do anything much other than destroy the tarmac, but enough snow on it that summer tyres will be rubbish. Summer tyre us and snow chain use don't overlap if you draw a Venn diagram on where they're useful...

@Posidrive, while I agree with much of what you say, in terms of driving strategy, many of us SHs live (or spend much time) in the alps where we routinely drive in conditions that the AA would have you tucked under a duvet if encountered in the UK. The Jura picture above, f'r instance, is a light dusting. And as I understand it, "all-season" or M&S tyres are not adequate, compared to proper snow tyres.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Valkyrie, have a look at www.mytyres.co.uk

They have a very comprehensive database that allows you to select the model of your car and then choose different wheel/tyre combinations - http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/komplettrad.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=76192553.110.30907&typ=winter&s_p=Alloy_wheels_winter

I used them for my wife’s Kuga. I went for 16” ENZO W and Nokian tyres as they offered the best deal. They are TUV approved and have vehicle specific type approval so there should be no issue with your insurance. You get the full fitting kit along with the wheels and tyres i.e. spigot rings and new bolts/nuts. I’ve actual ordered a set of alloy spigot rings as I found the plastic rings had deformed when I removed them.

Despite the .co.uk web address the company are based in Germany. They have a number of other localised brands around Europe. It takes around 3-5 days from ordering for delivery. A quick check shows a lot of options for the Qashquai at the £550-£650 price point.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@under a new name {how did you know what the other cars' tyres were?}

I'll admit I am assuming from the vehicle's behaviour: All but two of us seemed to be OK on the snow, driving happily at around 50-60Kph. The one car that dropped-out well before the photo was taken was clearly sliding all over the place, so I assumed that he was on summers (or very worn winters). The one with chains I'm also assuming was on summers. The rest were fine, other than that the heavier SUVs took much longer to come to a halt, but were stable. Both SUVs left plenty of space ahead of them (well just about). It was unfortunate for the X5 - he seemed to just drift very slightly to the right edge of the road and then dropped slowly into the ditch. I've done this route before in non-snow and the there's no edging, and in these conditions it looks like it's solid rather than having a ditch running alongside.

I agree absolutely with the comment on chains and Venn diagrams - here in the UK they're marketed as a winter tyre substitute, which they aren't. In my experience, they're useful for extreme conditions but simply don't address the mixed tarmac-snow that is so common int he Alps. And as with my observations about driving 'round Lac Léman, with 99% of the locals 'round you on winter tyres, the odds are that you will be in a pickle if you have summers on and chains in the boot.

I am sympathetic with people who only occasionally encounter snow or slush. I can see the attraction of all-seasons, but again, you're right that these are a compromise: ideal for neither summer or winter.

Also beware that an M&S designation guarantees nothing other than it's a deep tread pattern. In contrast, tyres with the snowflake-and-mountain symbol do conform to a composition standard that means they have a different chemistry to the rubber, designed for sub 7°C conditions. They are more supple (than summer compounds) below these temperatures.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
msej449 wrote:

Also beware that an M&S designation guarantees nothing other than it's a deep tread pattern. In contrast, tyres with the snowflake-and-mountain symbol do conform to a composition standard that means they have a different chemistry to the rubber, designed for sub 7°C conditions. They are more supple (than summer compounds) below these temperatures.

Exactly - proper all-season tyres like Nokian WR G2 (now discontinued but new "All-Weather" range coming), Vredestein Quatracs and Dunlop 4 Seasons all have the snowflake symbol.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@msej449, ah, OK fair enough. My suspicion is that many of them were non-alpine maybe French, being French. We see all sorts of shenanigans in the snow... rolling eyes


Typically in winter most Swiss cars will be appropriately tooled up for snow and ice. Our garage wouldn't have refitted our last winter tyres again after they took them off in the spring.
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name - Yes, they were mostly French, although the Départment code implied they were relatively local, so I was surprised that two seemed not to have winters on. I almost offered to pull the X5 out of the ditch as I also have a towrope in the back, but I was beaten to it by a well-equiped French driver who probably not only had winters on but chains and towrope in the boot, so I guessed he liked the irony of a Fiesta towing an X5 out of a ditch ......


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 24-08-15 12:41; edited 1 time in total
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

the irony of a Fiesta towing an X5


Titter
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I did enjoy using a Fiat Multipla to pull a Porsche Cayenne out of a snowdrift. Had to put chains on to get enough traction, on a snowy road, to do it though.

Quote:

The Jura picture above, f'r instance, is a light dusting.

Absolutely. Any vehicle needing chains on a flattish road with that little snow definitely has the wrong tyres.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'm one of the many who got caught up in the new year transfer day storm last winter, was running summer tires on my audi a4 quattro I'll confirm what has been said already. AWD and summer tires works as far as getting going however cornering and braking is a whole different kettle of fish.
I was one of a few to make it upto La Rosiere that day on the motorway I saw numerous fwd and rwd cars unable to get up even minor gradients the audi had no issues, when the motorway was white over I chucked on my snowsocks on the front wheels and drove about 50km with them on they made a big difference as far as cornering and braking goes. On the mountain switchbacks the rear end would still slide but the AWD would pull it back in line made for an interesting journey.
This winter driving out 4 times so we're gonna invest in a set of winter tyres so shouldn't have any issues.
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Some other car options with 4WD at cheaper prices.

Skoda Yeti
Nissan Quashqi

Both have 4WD options available.

Vauxhall Mokka again some models I think from the Tech line up have 4WD.

You get benefit of 4WD but better fuel eco than the big traditional 4x4's. Don't think any can handle true offroad though but the muddy lane a field and snow they should be more than capable.

The video above is probably the best I have seen showing the difference between drive systems and tyres so really if you want reliability for snow conditions 4WD with a set of snow tyres for winter is best.
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This thread is almost as amusing as a helmet debate...so with that in mind...should your car be fitted with a helmet, especially if driving in snow on summer tyres?

No, seriously...I've had a 4wd Outlander for several years now, all that time I've had M&S tyres on it. I'm not doubting they are a compromise, but I've never had a problem with them either summer or winter. Even up here in Aberdeenshire the last few winters haven't produced much in the way of low-level snow, but on the occasions we have, or when visiting Glenshee, Lecht etc I've never got stuck or felt unsafe. I know winter tyres aren't exclusively for the snow and will give better grip in cold conditions, but the UK climate is just in that 'no mans land' where choosing one type of tyre over the other isn't straightforwards.

That being said, knowing how to drive in snow and route choice is often much more important. Before the Outlander I had a 2wd Octavia and went through 2 very snow Aberdeenshire winters with summer tyres (winter tyres were not so well known then) and only failed to get to work once (it really was snowing very heavily and I turned back half way). Ironically, my snow day route of choice is normally the back roads rather than the main A road, which often gets gridlocked due to traffic, has lorries stuck on hills or is polished to an icy sheen if it snows 'at the wrong time' i.e. rush hour (hampering the ploughs/gritters). Any combination of 2 or 4WD & summer or winter tyres wont help you if everything in front of you is stuck! Oh and a shovel in the boot, a tub of grit and some decent footwear just in case.

If I lived in the Alps or somewhere that consistently gets snow? 4WD with winter tyres, no doubting it.

We got caught up in the New Years chaos this year, ended up on the floor of the local hall in Albertville, getting to the hotel eventually on Sunday afternoon after flying into Chambéry on Saturday around noon. One thing that amused me on the Sunday as we climbed up to La Plagne in the coach was watching people in cars 'chaining up' on the road up. By then the road was almost completely black and even the bus got up fine (no idea what tyres the bus was using). By sticking chains on people were actually giving themselves less grip on the climb.
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@Ravelin,
Quote:

snow day route of choice


Quite! I drove Geneva-Zurich one November a few years back. As I set out the Satnag gradually shifted me onto smaller and smaller roads as chaos increasingly enveloped the Swiss road network. Took 2 hours to navigate around Bern as the roads were more or less completely blocked by artics unable to pass.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The winter tyres issues comes up every year and every year you'll get people posting a range of reasons for not fitting them, some more convincing than others. Certainly, I appreciate that for someone living in the South of England and perhaps only occasionally venturing to the Alps, they are a big expense (especially if new separate wheels are needed) given the risk. Similarly, people will post that they leave their cars in the garage and don't even venture out in snow, or that they commute by train and aren't on the roads during the colder rush-hours. well, yes, of course, it's marginal in these circumstances. And there's always the old chestnut that all the other non-winter-tyre vehicles are going to hold you up anyway, so what's the point? Plus the M&S owners who have managed happily on 'ordinary' M&S but don't always appreciate that their M&S may also be winters.

I managed Alpine trips happily without winter tyres for six or seven years in a RWD BMW with chains. This was pure luck. The next year year I got winters and an AWD I was ploughing through the Jura mountains in conditions that saw local Audi Quattros in the hedge and very few other cars on the road. We must have been one of only a small minority of cars that escaped Besançon. In the BMW even with chains I would have been stuck in town like the rest of them.

Individual experiences aren't necessarily representative, either way. So it is genuinely hard to know whether winter tyres are a good investment or not. Personally, I'm a convert and they've been useful enough even in Sussex for me to have them on both our cars and leave them on one of them all year 'round. Given the big car goes to the Alps every winter, it's a no-brainer to fit what everyone else in Switzerland is fitting, namely winter tyres.

What is unequivocal - and I speak as an ex-Pirelli employee here - is that the best tyres for winter conditions are, surprise, winter tyres. And by winter I mean where the temperature goes below 7˚C when you are travelling on the roads: nothing to do with snow. Even in the UK, these conditions apply for most of October-February apparently, and getting 20% shorter stopping distances even on tarmac is worth the effort of swapping.

But one thing that does puzzle me is where owners of expensive performance cars and SUVs who commute seem to feel that an additional £800 on top of the £30+K they've spent on their cars is unjustified given that winter tyres are significantly superior to summers and all-seasons for almost 5 months of the year.
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Is it my imagination or is it a little hard to find much of a selection of off-road/winter tyres? I can see plenty of winter tyres and plenty of good off-road tryes, but winter versions of off-road tyres? We've got General grabber AT's on a Discovery and they are great in the mud but not great in snow/ice. If we switch my car (BMW) for another 4X4, which we might, I'd like something a bit better in the cold. Thoughts?
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@foxtrotzulu, do they exist? Winter tyres being intended (I would have thought) at road users. Off road, M&S surely actually does come into its own? If you're not off road, you don't want off road tyres, full stop I'd think??
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@foxtrotzulu, When I started driving many years ago I was always told offroad tyres are not suitable on road for the following reasons in no particular order.

More tyre/tread movement generates more heat and results in quicker tyre wear.

Less actual rubber in contact with the road surface compared with a road tyre so not as good under braking etc etc.

More tyre noise than a road tyre.

More sidewall movement again as above issues reduces performance on road and safety.



It was (back then taken a tyre good in the mud could handle snow, now with more modern tyre designs it may well be that a dedicated snow tyre will perform better in given situations but equally they are still designed for road use more so than a offroad tyre.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy