Benefits of Four Wheel Drive?

A snowHead

My wife is about to get a new car and she fancies something SUV styled, like a Mazda CX3 or Fiat 500X. My own BMW is fairly hopeless on icy roads (Company car so I can't fit winter tyres) so wife's car will be the one we'll use for the odd trip up to Glenshee/Aviemore/Glencoe. Most of these pretend off-roaders are front wheel drive, with 4x4 only available on the most expensive options. I'm sure it'd offer some benefit but I'm not sure if it's sufficient to warrant paying an extra couple of thousand pounds. Anyone got any experiences/views to share?

A snowHead

We have a CX-5, we went for 2 wheel drive option, it's rare that we'd need 4x4 so the expense, extra emissions/fuel wasn't worth it, will be fitting winter tires and have chains for the mountains.

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Fiat Panda 4x4

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With 5 litres, 2 and a bit tonnes and 275 section rear wheel drive i will just drag the mountain down to my level.

If i don't put it in a ditch first that is!!

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Hired a Kia Sportage 4WD with winter tyres in Utah last winter. Rock solid.

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In order of usefulness in the mountains:

4WD with snow tyres
2FWD with snow tyres
4WD with normal tyres
2FWD with normal tyres
2RWD with normal tyres

Not sure where 2RWD with snow tyres would go, but probably ahead of 2FWD with normal tyres.

I find that my 4WD gives me an advantage if I have to stop on a snowy slope - if you have to stop it can be tricky to get going again. But in Tignes I rarely see a 2FWD with snow tyres struggle.

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@Valkyrie, 4WD with summer tyres means you make adequate progress in snowy conditions, but cannot stop, so you are likely to crash. 2WD with summer tyres is useless all round. 2WD with winter tyres means you make adequate progress, and can stop adequately, so is safe, but you may need chains at times. 4WD with winter tyres is bombproof all round, and you will rarely/never need to put chains on.
I have tried all of these, and given the choice and funds I would go for 4WD. Currently have an Audi Allroad and it is fantastic in snow (or any other conditions).

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Fil used to swear by a bag of cement or two in a RWD in the snow.

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2wd with snow tyres is certainly more useful in snow than 4wd on all terrain tyres. Wife's Astra on snow tyres would go places my Frontera struggled with on Grabber A/T tyres.

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This should show you all you need to know:-

http://youtube.com/v/mfuE00qdhLA

My RWD 5 series estate with winters does better than my mothers Micra on standard summer tyres. Brother now drives the Micra and she's got a Sportage now, its a great car so think that's next on my shopping list...

You know it makes sense.

@Valkyrie, on a side note, if I had a company car and was in Scotland these days I'd be insisting on a swap to winter tyres, or I wouldn't be doing any company driving (even to/from office) in winter.

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If driving in the UK hills then ground clearance is also an issue since more likely than not the snow will be drifting. Good ground clearance will get you through deep unplowed roads. But snow tyres, at least on the front, are key. A chap wrote his brand new Mercedes 4x4 off last year on his way back from skiing in the Pennines, in very ordinary conditions but with low profile summer tyres. He slid off the road and took out the bottom of the vehicle after hiting a drainage cover.

A snowHead

Don't forget if you go for high ground clearance you should also look for a wider wheelbase for better stability on corners

A snowHead

@Peter S, ouch.

Snow tyres in snow, Sir, snow tyres... Shocked

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I have a 13 year old beaten up X Type Jaguar which is permanent 4X4.

Summer tyres on snow = makes forward progress most of the time. Sliding sideways not uncommon and gut wrenching loss of control downhill once almost did for me.

Winter tyres on snow (4 months Chamonix last winter) = happiness. Got up and down everything with barely a twich. Tyres of course worth more than the car.

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@Valkyrie, we have both 4x4 and winter tyres/wheels. I got Mrs Gaza a set of rims and tyres for her Kuga 4x4. I used www.mytyres.co.uk and bought a complete set. Her car has 19" rims and there was no way was I putting 19s or even 18s on as the cost was enormous. In the end I settled on 16" alloys (they are winter spec) with Nokian WR-A3 235/60 R16 104 H tyres. The total, including delivery, was £606. I have Dunlop Winter Sport 3D on my Audi A6 Allroad. I got my Dunlop's as a complete wheel and tyre package (OEM Audi winter wheels) from www.reifenprofi.de . They were secondhand but still had nearly 8mm on all four tyres and the rims were unmarked.

When we come to sell the cars there were still be good residual value in both sets of rims and perhaps the tyres, so the total cost of ownership won't be that high.

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4WD is useful where I live as it can be days before the local roads get gritted. I haven't found winter tyres necessary on top of that. I don't do enough miles to stress about fuel consumption & don't have any intention of driving to the Alps. I mostly got the car as a good tow vehicle (boats) and as a dog carrier. The ability to drive along rutted tracks comes in handy sometimes too but it wouldn't change my life if I couldn't do that.

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@Valkyrie, Much of it depends where you live. If you live in a city or large town then I really doubt it's worth it. If you live anywhere a bit more rural then I'd go for it. Even if you don't need 4WD very often there is a lot of satisfaction in knowing it's there when you need it. I'm about to change my RWD car for 4WD as I'm fed up with getting stuck in mud in the passing places of single track roads. We go to friends' houses and often have to park in a paddock or steep verge. Hard frost on the road and I struggle to cope with it at the moment. We already have one 4WD and when I change my car it will be the second one. I do also go fairly seriously off road quite often and always seem to be fighting my wife for the use of her 4wd. If you have a half-way good excuse, I'd go 4wd or at least AWD.

It's worth remembering that winter tyres are not just for snow, they perform better then summer tyres at 7 deg C or below. I keep a set of winter tyres for my Golf and get a local tyre shop to change them over either side of winter. Over time there is o significant increase in cost as the summer tyres last longer

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^ depends on your mileage. Think mine would be life ex before wear out. Storage space would also be an issue.

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Have you looked at something like the VW Tiguan?
Some of the older models can be picked up pretty cheaply at the moment (we sold one for £12k last week, 10 plate, high spec, 120k on the clock)
They are fwd, unless the speed sensors on each wheel realise the car is sliding, where it will then power the back wheels to straighten the vehicle back up before going to fwd again.

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@SammyJ,
12k for a Tiguan wiith 120k on it sounds a lot to me. We just bought a high spec Octavia Scout (DSG, winter pack, etc) for 27k brand new. 15k for 120k miles less doesn't sound bad to me
Last car we bought was a 535D touring with 32k on it and that was 18.5k. It's a Tiguan not a range rover!

On the original question, I honestly don't have enough experience to answer. I do know that winter tyres are much more important than 4wd. We went for 4wd because we will drive to the Alps 2-3 times per winter and live on a steep cul de sac which causes a problem about every other year. We figure it means we will likely never have to fit chains (but will carry them). I'm quite sure that 2wd and winters would be fine.

Another point to remember is that weight (and to a lesser extent centre of gravity) matter. Big SUVs on summer tyres are prone to give you false sense of security from traction but turn out not to get round snowy hairpins very well! I drove a very basic Fiat punto hire car this winter (awful car compared to Polo or Fiesta) - with winter tyre it handles the snow extremely well because it was so light (better than many of the bigger cars on the road that struggled getting started on steep hills).

AWD offers more than just better traction in snow. In wet conditions it can considerably improve traction in a variety of circumstances. It can also help if you do need to venture off the beaten track as I do. I live in a rural area. The roads around here are all B Roads or unclassified. To be fair the main B Road in and out of the village is of A road standard.

Unlike most people who have AWD I actually use it for what it was originally intended. I have access to a farm and woodland so I can get wood for our log burners. The trailer is often heavy and there is no way a 2WD car would work.

Even with AWD on road tyres I can have a bit of bother. I once had to leave the trailer in a field (not when the photos above were taken) and go borrow my father in laws Defender to get it out as my road tyres simply didn't have the bite to get the car and trailer out. I felt not too bad when even that struggled with grip and it is on chuncky off road tyres!

If you don't really need AWD then probably the best solution is 2WD but buy set of winter wheels and tyres. As the video above shows you will get most of the traction and all of the stopping benefits.

You know it makes sense.

@jedster, I work in a main dealership so naturally prices are hiked up a little. (okay, alot!)
In a private sale without warranties etc. I would only expect the car to be worth about £5-6k
Please also note, I'm not a sales person, just a parts guy Razz

I do like the look of some of the newer Skoda's,
The price diffence between Skoda's, VW's and Audi's does make me smile considering they're the same cars!
About 80% of the parts in Tiguans and Audi Q3's are the same, yet there's a huge difference in the base price, I know you're paying for the badge, but still..

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^ I once towed the hay lorry out of the field in Mrs L's old Rav 4!

A snowHead

@Valkyrie, I should have added; if buying new the look at www.drivethedeal.com . Amazing discounts on cars and very good to deal with. Once you agree to buy they put you in contact with the dealer and all money goes through that dealer. I got £10k off my Audi. The dealer was superb to deal with. The only slight issue is they were based in the Midlands but the chap I was dealing with came in on his weekend off, drove to Birmingham Airport to pick up my son and me and took us to the dealership. The good part was I got to drive the car back home from the midlands. It gave me a great opportunity to get used to it.

If looking at something in the crossover/SUV sector I can recommend the Nissan Qashqai. I pick up a hire car each week when I fly in to Stansted and I'm always delighted to get one of those. It drives brilliantly, is very comfortable and is well equipped and finished. It is better than my wife's Kuga. I've also had a few Jukes. It is equally good to drive although the looks are very Marmite. Personally I like the quirkiness. There also also lots of very good deals on the Hyundai iX35 at the moment as it is about to be replaced with a new Tucson. The Kia Sportage and iX35 are virtually identical underneath.

A snowHead

@Gaza, we've also bought two cars from drivethedeal, and similarly impressed.

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@Gaza,

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@foxtrotzulu, I am told the petrol version is, but the diesel is fine.

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@foxtrotzulu, I always get a diesel so can't comment on the petrol. The diesel is more than adequate and I couldn't say it was massively underpowered. On paper, my wife's Kuga has more power than the QQ but it doesn't feel any faster. It has strong mid-range and I can certainly keep up with the faster traffic on the M11 and M25. The magazines do say that you notice the lower power on its big brother the X Trail but that is heavier.

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@Gaza, we've got the old model X-trail, and deliberately chased the last model available in the UK last June as we did not want to buy the under-powered 1.6 model.

@SnoodyMcFlude, the main part of that field was fine. It was towards the gate that the problems can arise. It is a field that normally hold cows so the exit is very trodden, very muddy and covered in cow 5shit. Many of the fields are steeper than that one; especially the one where I couldn't get the car and trailer out. NehNeh

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@Valkyrie, going back to your original question, I'd expect that 4 snow tyres on a FWD car would easily cope with anything that Scotland would throw at it that you'd actually drive in if you see what I mean. Those snow plough drivers are pretty good.

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Benefits of Four Wheel Drive?

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