I know they're the best in terms of quality footage but looking for a more compact camera like a Contour, Replay XD Prime X or similar. I would like something that will record up to 1080p at 60 fps although would consider 720p at 60fps. Does anything come even close to the GoPro for footage quality?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The latest Sony Actioncams may do but the (ugly) GoPro form factor is compelling given the amount of accessories.
This does 1080@60fps and has the same imaging chip as a GoPro
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There's the Hero 4 session which will do 1080p although I've not tried it. That is a smaller size and shape.
I have a Replay XD and the footage is, well, let's just say I've never used it for anything other than turning motorists into the police when I'm cycling. A handy form factor, horrible quality.
I like the look of the Sonys and they do make fine video and stills cameras. I have not tried them. I would look at what real users post from them and decide if you think that's good enough.
I have the Hero 4k (which I paid for, albeit in the US) simply because of the footage quality. The desktop wallpaper on the 4k monitor I'm using is a 4k image grabbed from that GoPro. The form factor isn't great, but I use it in a "frame mount" (off brand Chinese one) which reduces the weight and bulk a bit (you don't need it to be submersible unless you're water skiing or something).
I've used a Contour for a while now and the form and function can't be faulted (apart from sound quality which is poo, but I'm working on that...) Contour and iON Action Cameras merged recently so hopefully they'll be able to take on (or at least survive) the GoPro hegemony.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You could try one of these, they are amazing for the price and record in the quality you're after. A little converter plate allows them to use all the GoPro mounts and if you smash it up it doesn't matter. You can get 10 of these for the price of a GoPro! Me and a friend of tried them out in situations including power boating and Paramotoring and they're faultless!
I had a play with the Session last week, and as well as being TINY, it seems pretty impressive!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@clarky999, tiny box-on-a-stick is still a box-on-a-stick
After all it is free
After all it is free
I used to have a Contour as, at the time, I preferred the shape and size of it compared to the GoPro. But as more and more mounts became available for the GoPro it became obvious it was much more versatile than the Contour in terms of how you captured video footage, so I switched to a GoPro. GoPros are so ubiquitous these days surely concerns about the "tellytubby" look are no longer an issue?
I have a GoPro4 Black. Although it was much more expensive than lots of other actioncams currently available the quality of the video and stills is definitely worth it. I now film in 4K resolution and the ability to select one frame and save it as a still image means you can easily select the best shot as you have 25 frames per second to select from. This versatility makes it worth the extra cash compared to the cheaper models which film in 1080p or 720p.
I was initially interested in the new GoPro Session but lots of reviews have said that the video quality is poor compared to other cameras in their range, so I think I'll skip that model and maybe see if they improve with future iterations of the small form factor actioncam.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ChrisP3 wrote:
I know they're the best in terms of quality footage but looking for a more compact camera like a Contour, Replay XD Prime X or similar. I would like something that will record up to 1080p at 60 fps although would consider 720p at 60fps. Does anything come even close to the GoPro for footage quality?
Depends how much you want to spend.
I've used the Contour 2 for the past couple of seasons. Does a great job considering the cost. Currently at £136 on Amazon.
If you want bells & whistles then as others have said GoPro 4K or Sony 4K
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Richard_Sideways wrote:
@clarky999, tiny box-on-a-stick is still a box-on-a-stick
Yep, but if you want to film you may as well get the camera that films the best.
If you don't care that much about filming, why stick a camera to your head at all?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
I was initially interested in the new GoPro Session but lots of reviews have said that the video quality is poor compared to other cameras in their range, so I think I'll skip that model and maybe see if they improve with future iterations of the small form factor actioncam.
Yeah it definitely doesn't film as well as the normal ones. The advantage is it's so small and light it makes getting unusual angles at lot easier/less intrusive on your activity.
Probably makes less difference skiing (though should be less of a pain in the back bottom on ski pole out in front), but kayakers have been getting some sweet shots with it mounted on their paddles. They were doing that before with the old cameras too obviously, but they seriously impede your paddle strokes.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@clarky999, I don't dispute the picture quality of the GoPro product, but the mounts, particularly the helmet mounts, are dire. Wearing my 'other' helmet, I've seen so many GoPro mounts fail in motorsport you may as well just point the thing skywards or just dangle them around on a length of paracord from the back of the car.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@clarky999, yes, that's a fair point, the size of the Session gives more options that the "full size" GoPro, although I have to say I was very disappointed when I saw several reviews comparing the video quality of the Session with the current GoPro4 (even when they are set to 1080p). I guess they must use a different sensor in the Session compared to the GoPro4?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wow, thanks for all the replies!
I already have a cheap Lidl version of a GoPro which has never really worked very well. I never really used it very much as I was very concious of it's bulk sticking out of the top of my helmet. I feel I'd be much more comfortable using something smaller and less conspicuous.
I know I'm going to lose some quality vs a GoPro Black or Silver but personally feel it's a trade off I should make. So on the list is the GoPro Session and was possibly favourite but not so sure now, the Contour although I can't see a model that does 1080p at 60fps (Mike Pow's footage looks great though), the Ion Air Pro 3 and the Replay XD. Are there any other options I should add to the list?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Unless you need it urgently for something now then you may want to wait, GoPro's release cycle is October and there tends to be a rush of deals of the previous model in September as places like to dump the older models. I can't confirm if they will release a new model in October but the new one will come with even better frame rates for 4k (and the other lower levels also) possibly a new and better battery.
Don't know if I'd make use of all the technology but as you say Ansta1 could be some bargains about for current models although I presume this wouldn't include the Session.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ansta1 wrote:
... will come with even better frame rates for 4k
That's nice, but storage requirements are going to be huge. I've just returned from a couple of weeks family holiday and videoed mostly in 4K resolution, adding up to over 300GB of files!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I agree rob@rar, personally that seems like overkill for my purposes. I don't think I would ever really need more than 1080p at 60fps and would maybe even consider 720p at 60fps which I think would be sufficient for the majority of my filming.
The Xiaomi Yi and Blackview Hero 1 which I suggested in the 2nd post both use the same sensor and image processor as Go Pro. The differences are then lens, the bitrate of recording (GoPro do some very high bitrates in the Black model) and compression. For example the Sony AS10/AS15 had the same sensor as the GoPro but recorded at 2/3rds the bit rate and didn't compress as well (no B frames) so the video was poor where there was a lot of detail or fast movement.... fast movement being one of the points of an Action Cam.
You really need to compare raw footage to see a difference.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 20-08-15 17:18; edited 3 times in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ChrisP3 wrote:
I agree rob@rar, personally that seems like overkill for my purposes. I don't think I would ever really need more than 1080p at 60fps and would maybe even consider 720p at 60fps which I think would be sufficient for the majority of my filming.
I thought 1080p was a bit unnecessary when I was used to videoing in SD, but made the switch to HD as that seemed to be inevitable progress. I then wished that the SD footage I had was recorded in HD. Now I've switched to UHD, as that too seems like inevitable progress, I really wish the HD footage I have was recorded in 4K...
If you think 4k is bad/good, you should try the 8k gopro . Though it is only at 15fps.
A big benefit of 4k is the ability to crop/zoom when editing.
THE downsides are the storage, the editing time required and the cost of a machine capable of editing.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
mmmm, so much to consider.
After all it is free
After all it is free
ansta1 wrote:
If you think 4k is bad/good, you should try the 8k gopro . Though it is only at 15fps.
A big benefit of 4k is the ability to crop/zoom when editing.
.
and the related ability to deshake the video and still retain 1080p
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof wrote:
ansta1 wrote:
If you think 4k is bad/good, you should try the 8k gopro . Though it is only at 15fps.
A big benefit of 4k is the ability to crop/zoom when editing.
.
and the related ability to deshake the video and still retain 1080p
Indeed but a nice little 3axis gimbal gets rid of most of that need in my case
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
A big benefit of 4k is the ability to crop/zoom when editing.
...
and the related ability to deshake the video and still retain 1080p
Indeed. One thing I didn't learn until it was slightly too late for last season is that you need to shoot very loosely to be able to do that, if you're using a pole.
--
Each to their own. I prefer not to speculate about how much better my stuff could have been if I'd used better tools. In my case, the tools are not at fault.
check out a quick comparison shot between the replay and the gopro mounted on a helmet.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hadn't really considered the Sony models before but I'm seriously considering their mini / AZ1 model. Looks like it ticks all the boxes, 1080p at 60 fps, footage quality looks equal to the GoPro Silver or Black and better than the Session, compact size, image stabilisation could be a bonus and the remote control looks useful. Also, Decathlon are currently doing them for £200. Looks like battery life isn't fantastic but they're cheap enough to buy a couple of spares.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If you are thinking of Sony then check out the MatesRates thread in Apres...our resident Sony snowHead can usually get you a very substantial discount.
I know they're the best in terms of quality footage but looking for a more compact camera like a Contour, Replay XD Prime X or similar. I would like something that will record up to 1080p at 60 fps although would consider 720p at 60fps. Does anything come even close to the GoPro for footage quality?
Skied with it this earlier this year and been scuba diving down to 30m with it for 2 years. Comes fully loaded with Go Pro compatible fixings and housing so any stick or velcro straps that are made for Go Pro will fit
Battery life is amazing. Took it on a boat trip to do 4 scuba dives and took an external battery power to recharge half way through. Even in temp of 90+ it wasnt needed
When I bought it I wasnt expecting anything special for the price but the picture quality is absolutely amazing.
I can't compare to a Go Pro as I've never used one but for my needs, 1 week skiing and 5-10 scuba dives a year, I can't justify the cost of a Go Pro but this I can
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
This is some Xiaomi Yi footage taken from a handlebar mount yesterday. 1080p downscaled to 720p. The Xi will do higher resolutions than 1080p.
I've been using a Garmin Virb which give excellent HD results (1080), is cheaper than GoPro, is already waterproof (doesn't need to go inside a waterproof case). I don't wear a helmet so use a headtorch style mounting that they provide. I also have two batteries for it and it only takes seconds to switch them around (though I've rarely had to do so as it will run for a long time on one battery). Only downside is that it is larger and a little more awkward to use than the GoPro. As to quality; last season I gave some of my video to a mate who uses a GoPro and he reckons it's every bit as good as GoPro, but it doesn't do 4k.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My old GoPro Hero HD washes out very badly in bright light, apparently a common problem with them, so snow loses all definition. Xmas skiing is fine (sun is low enough in the sky to leave good definition), but my Easter clips are universally awful.
Do the cheaper gopro clones have a similar issue? The footage from @davidof above shows a similar problem on the road (more than 5m in front of the bike the road looks very uniform, as the light gets brighter the problem becomes worse, and it looks overexposed in the bright areas to me). Its sometimes hard to tell what is a camera issue and what arises from youtube butchering the videos...
I'm tempted by the Dazzne P3 which has very good specs, but none of the reviews/videos I've seen are in the kind of exposure situations that reflect Easter skiing.
Yeah, I was looking at that video and decided it's impossible to tell with the downloaded footage - the machine may record at whatever bit rate but that's not what you're seeing. There's some rolling shutter which you may be able to reduce.
The different versions of GoPro perform quite differently (in that they get better quickly), from my experience, so it depends which one you're using and how you use it (eg it's better with ProTune but you need to know how to process it...)
Waterproof: yeah, I don't ride in the rain so I use my GoPro with the "frame mount", which is an off-brand bit of plastic which reduces weight significantly for snow use.
On the OP, I think there isn't anything which matches the top of the line GoPro, but there are lots of things which may be entirely good enough.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hope this works:
http://youtube.com/v/spCl_vx7Gc8&feature=player_detailpage
This is a short clip from my Garmin Virb. Original was 1080 and very high bitrate (I forget how high but creates crazy big files). That was then edited and saved at 720 and 5Mbs 23fps MP4. I then took that compressed files and created this one so it has been compressed twice. It was Easter so good and bright sun and I've deliberately included a clip with a brief shot straight into the sun and also a bit skiing from shade to sun.
You can see the camera mounted on my head in the shadow!
Not too bad quality I reckon. The video I took this from which had been compressed only the once has none of the pixellation that you see on this one when viewed full screen.
After all it is free
After all it is free
snowdave wrote:
My old GoPro Hero HD washes out very badly in bright light, apparently a common problem with them, so snow loses all definition. Xmas skiing is fine (sun is low enough in the sky to leave good definition), but my Easter clips are universally awful.
Do the cheaper gopro clones have a similar issue? The footage from @davidof above shows a similar problem on the road (more than 5m in front of the bike the road looks very uniform, as the light gets brighter the problem becomes worse, and it looks overexposed in the bright areas to me). Its sometimes hard to tell what is a camera issue and what arises from youtube butchering the videos...
I'm tempted by the Dazzne P3 which has very good specs, but none of the reviews/videos I've seen are in the kind of exposure situations that reflect Easter skiing.
These are a couple of screen grabs from the camera footage.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm not sure what you're worried about there. Point any camera at the sun and it's going to max out... you can adjust the effect or post process it if you don't like it.
I suspect they publish the dynamic range, but I'd guess that a GoPro with Protune running will likely be the best you can get for that in small cameras. Alternatively change exposure method or compensate down (the opposite of what you do for snow). You can post process the artifacts if you don't like them, but you'll not "get back" detail you don't capture. You could clone stuff over the over-exposed road, but it's very time consuming and fiddly. It looks fine to me.
I don't think snow's particularly problematic for that: you don't need huge dynamic range as everything's pretty bright out there. Once you have the exposure dialed it's not really an issue. I've never had blown out highlights for example, and I do crank up the exposure for snow.
I'd be more worried about the precise shade the snow comes out - look closely at the Virb video. That used to be a problem for stills when people (briefly) shot jpeg, it seems hard to get it precisely correct and I'm always thinking it wants to go blue or purple. IIRC the original GoPro set the colour balance based on what you were pointing it at when you powered it up, which would be fun if you didn't know it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
philwig wrote:
I'm not sure what you're worried about there
I'm not but there was a question about what YouTube had done to the footage.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. Though it is only at 15fps.
