 Poster: A snowHead
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Good morning
I have booked Les Deux Alpes for next Easter as I have been informed that the hitherto existing issues of return runs is being ameliorated by the creation of a new blue piste. Does anyone have any information/links to this project and is anyone able to assess how effective this may be in resolving many of the difficulties novices have in returning to the resort?
Many thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@kbmack, welcome to snowheads.  There are some LDA experts here who will shortly be along with detailed info, I'm sure. A nice blue run down to the resort would be excellent but personally I've never found any "difficulties" downloading in a lift when not fancying the runs down. There are lots of great ski resorts where downloading by lift is unavoidable - I've never really understood the fuss.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi
Thanks to you both for the kindly welcome. I've just had a look a the YouTube videos on the L2A site-it's an epic undertaking! This will be really helpful for my two kids as the prospect of the infamous green or other busy routes has previously prevented me from taking them here. It looks like the creation of the run will alleviate a lot of this congestion.
I wonder if there was much local opposition from an ecological perspective?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Have always downloaded in the lifts as I have no desire to go down the black runs. You have the Jandri Express and the "White Eggs" that will take you back down to the resort centre but some of the chairs will download you too - I think the Village chair and there's at least 1 more - but they take you to one side of the resort, not good if you are the Venosc end. Although the free bus is frequent and very handy.
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I have skied several times at LDA and always download in a lift. There are several to choose from depending where you are staying. It's simply not a problem and because the skiing stretches over such a big altitude you can always find good conditions.
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Whilst it wasn't a problem for my partner and I, the resort run situation was definitely an issue for others when we visited in January. I've copied and pasted an extract from my trip report:
"at the end of the day, we encountered one of the most laughably shocking situations I've ever seen in a ski resort. Les Deux Alpes has a number of direct blacks into the valley, plus a red and a long, narrow, winding green track. Poor snow conditions had meant that only Valentin (a black) was open this week, with queues for the White Eggs gondola down at close of play on Wednesday. On Thursday, the gondola closed mid-afternoon for unknown reasons. By 4.30pm, some people were downloading on the Village 1800 chair, but this doesn't go to the resort centre. Thousands of people instead descended on the black Valentin, many evidently not used to black runs. Absolute carnage. Skis (not attached to people) flying down the hill, people (not attached to skis) tumbling down separately. I had to stop several times to retrieve random skis and deliver them to the owner, often significantly further downhill. Meanwhile, over to the right you could clearly see the closed green run. On long sections this was just black (i.e. no snow at all), and you could clearly see hundreds of people just walking down, carrying their skis. Terrible!"
Obviously this was an unfortunate combination of events, but it wouldn't happen at a resort with a reliably-open, easyish home run. The blue should help avoid this sort of situation, especially if it has decent snowmaking. Even on a normal day, the choice between queuing to download or a busy black run at the end of the day isn't an ideal one to have to make.
Out of interest, what happens at resorts without home runs when the lift suddenly has to close due to wind? How do skiers get down?
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I can imagine there was concern ecologically, from a landscape perspective, land stability, hydrologically, and no doubt in terms of carbon emissions to move all that Earth and rock.
If you want to understand the impact of industrial scale skiing infrastructure on the environment, this is a good project to start with.
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More unnecessary development that panders to the idea that everyone HAS to have the option to be able to ski into the resort.
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@Gerry, actually it's sound commercial sense, resorts want to attract less able skiers, because the less able spend more, they hire equipment and pay for lessons, but they also tend to spend less time on skis so spend more in resort bars and shops, making resorts beginner friendly brings in more money, now adding an easier way to get back at the end of the day also makes things better for the more experienced since they get the benefit of having fewer inexperienced skiers and boarders to dodge on the black runs. Of course the downside of this is environmental damage, unless new routes are carefully planned and quickly stabilised with new trees and ground cover serious issues can occur, whether or not they manage to achieve this only time will tell
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@D G Orf, obviously it's commercial sense, no other possible reasoning. But it's still pandering and , let's face it, LDA has done just fine without a numpty home run.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
More unnecessary development that panders to the idea that everyone HAS to have the option to be able to ski into the resort.
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@D G Orf, obviously it's commercial sense, no other possible reasoning. But it's still pandering and , let's face it, LDA has done just fine without a numpty home run.
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Elitist bollox, and clearly L2A don't think they've 'done just fine' or they wouldn't be developing it would they? 
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@kbmack, I'm out in L2A atm. It's on track and will open in December. It won't be an easy blue, not that wide and still fairly steep in places. Easier though than any of the current return runs except the green Demoiselles. A friend who's an ESF instructor here calls it the blouge 
I'm hoping it will deter some who really shouldn't be on the blacks using them to get back, particularly the Valentine.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks Claude, et-al. In 36 years of skiing, this will be a brand new resort for me so I am looking forward to it. The creation of a new piste has swayed it for me and I'm certain the kids will enjoy it. Of course, getting the lift down is an option I completely acknowledge and, from one or two of the comments above, recommendable!
Now, where's that 'numpty home run'..........?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| mozwold wrote: |
Elitist bollox, and clearly L2A don't think they've 'done just fine' or they wouldn't be developing it would they? |
Hilarious.
Elitist bollox as pertains to skiing. Which is quintessential elitist bollox.
Roflmfao.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Visitors increasingly demand all sorts of things which were never thought vital before - resorts just have to keep up with the competition, I suppose, and it's just too bad if it takes more than a quick "coup de bull" to re-model the mountain to suit. The upper levels of LdA look pretty ghastly in summer - as do a number of other high altitude resorts - like a giant has been at them with a jack hammer.
Some Italian and Austrian resorts seem to manage absolutely fine with no means of skiing down (or not for ordinary skiers, for most of the time). And I've skied at Brevent/Flegere in Chamonix and not even thought of skiing down. Enjoyed watching people I'd been skiing with in Val d'Isere in mid December skiing (or rather hiking) down across meadows with the odd patch of snow, whilst some of us rode down in the gondola. There's no easy way down to Val d'Isere even later in the season, come to that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I just hope that L2A never take over La Grave which has been rumoured in the past.
I am sure they would do a bit of "re-modelling" there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| mozwold wrote: |
Elitist bollox, and clearly L2A don't think they've 'done just fine' or they wouldn't be developing it would they? |
Hilarious.
Elitist bollox as pertains to skiing. Which is quintessential elitist bollox.
Roflmfao. |
Yeah, pay for lessons and stop being a crybaby.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Gerry, WTF?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@pam w, agreed regarding the mess all the terraforming leaves behind. Some of these numpties forget that the mountains are still there in the summer.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Gerry, WTF? |
I'm agreeing with you.
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| richjp wrote: |
I just hope that L2A never take over La Grave which has been rumoured in the past.
I am sure they would do a bit of "re-modelling" there. |
Yep, probably dumb it all down.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting debate. ...am sure somewhere in snowheads L2A was voted "the resort I'd least like to go back to" or more specifically...just plain old "most disliked" (to which I added my vote).
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@under a new name,
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Elitist bollox as pertains to skiing. Which is quintessential elitist bollox.
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Breathing the rarefied air up there in Chamonix it may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone who skis is a pretentious snob, and not everyone who skis can do so like Svindal.
So when a pompous Brit berates a French resort for trying to widen its appeal by ‘pandering’ to the plebeians, you’re right, it is hilarious. Hilarious like a feckin eejit
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| LDA has done just fine without a numpty home run. |
Nice attitude...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So when a pompous Brit berates a French resort for trying to widen its appeal by ‘pandering’ to the plebeians, you’re right, it is hilarious.
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I don't think it's anything to do with pandering to the plebeians. More like pandering to the people who have some kind of problem with being seen riding down a mountain in a lift. People who are kind of unsure of themselves. I do actually think it's a shame to tear apart an area of mountain pasture which previously looked pretty nice in the summer just to save them this embarassment.
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Back to the original poster for the thread...if you've been skiing for 36years, you may find L2A doesn't stretch your abilities. Although the Fee area is often quiet and overlooked; within it there are some Very fast reds and good blacks with easy offpiste around.
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You know it makes sense.
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| mozwold wrote: |
@under a new name,
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Elitist bollox as pertains to skiing. Which is quintessential elitist bollox.
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Breathing the rarefied air up there in Chamonix it may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone who skis is a pretentious snob, and not everyone who skis can do so like Svindal.
So when a pompous Brit berates a French resort for trying to widen its appeal by ‘pandering’ to the plebeians, you’re right, it is hilarious. Hilarious like a feckin eejit |
I'll have to try really hard to remember I'm 'pompous' while I'm driving to that building site in my van tomorrow morning.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
So when a pompous Brit berates a French resort for trying to widen its appeal by ‘pandering’ to the plebeians, you’re right, it is hilarious.
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I don't think it's anything to do with pandering to the plebeians. More like pandering to the people who have some kind of problem with being seen riding down a mountain in a lift. |
I've never understood that mentality. Let's face it, it often the worst run of the day too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Took a couple of shots of the work in progress this afternoon from my balcony, will post them soon. Sure I saw Gerry driving up there in his van 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Claude B wrote: |
| Took a couple of shots of the work in progress this afternoon from my balcony, will post them soon. Sure I saw Gerry driving up there in his van |
Was I driving pompously?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Absolutely, Maserati vans should be banned
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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C44rver-thanks for the observations pertaining to size of ski area and scope of challenge. I'll be spending most of the time skiing with my kids who are semi-novices so the extent of the area shouldn't be a huge issue. Particularly, I'm looking forward to getting them to the gentler upper slopes-this should give them a good sense of adventure. If possible, I will investigate the possibilities of getting away for the day to say, either Alpe D'Huez or maybe La Grave but we'll see.
When I am able to ski for adventure I like to go to places that perhaps aren't always first off the tip of the tongue, for example Andermatt which, whilst the piste map doesn't look that extensive, the potential for adventure is.
This is quite an interesting forum, some surprisingly heated 'debate' abounds!
Thank you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@kbmack, in benign weather you could take kids right up to the glacier. Where the slopes are mostly pretty gentle. The view is terrific and IIRC you can go for a ride on a snowcat to ice caves..
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In some ways it is a shame. Gunning it down the home face on a powder day was one of the great joys of skiing in L2A and with the new red and now the blue that's increasingly going to be a thing of the past.
But I can understand why they have done it. In maybe 120 days skiing in the area I have done Demoiselles once. I'm quite good and can turn both left and right. It was  terrifying.
Much the same can be said for Valentin. Valentin is dead on 33 degrees on the initial pitch. I know that as the resort avalanche course uses it as its example of a steeper pitch. That is way, way too steep for many holiday skiers and potentially very dangerous in the wrong conditions. With the older lifts prone to shutting in even a stiff breeze I can totally see why they have done this.
L2A is not short of really serious terrain. The couloirs between the top of the glacier and the vallon de la selle are pretty full on. As is the mines route between the bottom of Signal and the RN91. The routes between Toura and St Christophe are, in my view, better than the descent into the Selle valley from the top of la Grave. Point is, as with almost all big French resorts there is good skiing for the committes skier. Such that a litte off piste down into town should not be missed too much.
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| kbmack wrote: |
| If possible, I will investigate the possibilities of getting away for the day to say, either Alpe D'Huez or maybe La Grave but we'll see. |
The LDA lift pass includes 1 day skiing at Alpe D'Huez. There is a bus service from LDA to ADH that runs on Weds and Thurs, you buy the ticket in advance from the Agence Transisère VFD office which is situated on the left hand side of the main street as you walk from the centre of LDA towards the Venosc side of town.
| kbmack wrote: |
This is quite an interesting forum, some surprisingly heated 'debate' abounds!
Thank you. |
Welcome to snowHeads! Yes, there can be some heated debate, but also a lot of useful information here.
On the topic of the new blue run at LDA, I was there last month for a few days (for the summer glacier skiing) and it has certainly divided opinion, with many of the locals opposed to it. Here's a picture of the hillside:
It's certainly quite a scar on the landscape, and a friend of mine who's a ski instructor based there is opposed to it, she says that 2 existing runs consisting of one on the Sapins slope (an off piste route by the line of the Oeufs Blancs gondola) and the black Diable 2 (aka the 'Y') have been lost in the construction of this new run.
Also in early June following a bout of heavy rain they had unprecedented flooding and mudslides in the centre of town, which has been ascribed to the changes in hillside drainage caused by the excavation work:
http://api.dmcloud.net/player/pubpage/4f3d114d94a6f66945000325/557468a594a6f62f5e0e3828/172398b486474e00924f8974511d587a
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alastair: that is some work on the hillside there, for sure, and it's not surprising it has evoked a lot of opinion. Gorilla: I think you've brought a fairly balanced viewpoint to all of this and what shines through is your knowledge of the place and how you're able to see it in a broader perspective. Digging around this a little more, I now understand this issue has been under some consideration for nearly two decades.
Someone out there will know, but for all of this to get off the ground, what sorts of permissions are needed? I would imagine the criteria to obtain approval would be very high indeed?
Pam: thank you for the suggestions-I'll certainly check those out.
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FAQ
