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Insurance 2005/06

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey there,

I havent seen any threads this year on insurance, but no doubt there is more than just me thinking about it!

Last year I was with direct travel following the great advice from snowheads. My renewal has just turned up, however it is more of a 'please reapply' as opposed to a renewal (naively I thought my custom last year might give me financial benefit!). So do I just go for the same thing again or are there any better value options out there this year?

In addition, I am a leech on my parents and although 24, am still in full time education. Is there any worth in trying to get a family policy to cover us or is this just going to be too awkward given my age?

I am a recreational skier (no racing of any kind), on piste only and there is a reasonable chance I will only have one trip (roughly 2 weeks in canada). Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Adam
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
buns, I take annual insurance with Egg - very reasonable for £95 worldwide and previous custom does count towards a reduction.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I took family year insurance inc 17 days skiing (inc offpiste) with the SCGB last year (no need to be a member). Cost £57, appears to be the same price this year!

regards,

Greg
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Can someone clear up for me what the problem was that was identified with the SCGB insurance this year?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
fatbob, There was AFAIR. My best suggestion is spend sometime using the Search facility and see what come's up. Sad
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Paul Mason, Egg for me too.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
On my searches Ive come to 1ststoptravelinsurance.co.uk.... anyone looking at them beware as it looks like thet do not insure for personal liability.... bot necessarily a big deal in Europe, but I wouldnt like to go to North America without it.

Adam
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Mate of mine did some research last year and Marks & Spencers and the Post Office came out pretty close for cover and price.
My M&S renewal just arrived and this year it's 107 pounds inc. excess waiver.

Jerry.
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Mine was with flexicoverdirect (i think) for £89 annual worldwide multitrip, with up to 17days wintersports. more available on request for a fee. price might be in Euros and converted, so could be +/- a few quid.
Better still, that was for the non-UK EU-resident version. Only down sides were that the wallet/passport/creditcard loss/theft part is not valid if I'm on a trip back to the UK, and possibly no off-piste (which is not a major concern to me).
Edit: i selected the dates badly last year, so have to renew for my 1st ski trip this season Sad cos it runs out on the day I travel - Doh!
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I am just getting properly back into this as my renewal is within 2 weeks.

One of the major troubles I see is that we want to take a private transfer to our hotel as we have an elderly relative. However, most insurance policies seem to be strict that any delay insurance is only covered if you are on some form of scheduled transport. So if our private transfer could not travel because of closed roads or the likes, we would not be insured.

I think direct travel covered this ok, but was wondering who else would insure me for this eventuality?

Thanks

Adam
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I am always concerned about the policies with no off piste cover, I am led to believe if you fall on piste but end up off piste and are rescued from an off piste position you may well not be covered, Itinerant routes are also not covered.

I currently insured by SCGB as it seems to have the best cover for the sport that I can find, however I stand to be corrected if anybody knows any better.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ive used Snowcard now for the last 4 years.

Their annual policy at £156 for two people covering most active sports whilst away is spot on.

Don't look at the price look at what it covers you for. Ie with or without guides. Off piste. climbing whitewater rafting or even what height you are ski-ing.

Did you know that most insurance policies do not cover you above 1500 mtrs especially in summer.

An example of this and how easy you can find yourself without cover is Las Canadas park in Tenerife. Height 2000 mtrs plus popular tourist destination . cycling or even tripping over whilst walking here and you will find that your not covered.

Even having an accident whilst cycling at sea level and having no safety helmet will render your policy void.

beware think about what you are going to do whilst on holiday and check what you are covered for. all the other stuff on delays and lost property tend to be pretty standard.

Makes yuo wonder when insurance companies will start to insist on us all wearing ski helmets before they will cover us.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ive been on the hunt most of today.... some points of note are that a great many policies insist that public transport is the only way to be insured for missed departure. This means that a taxi or a non-scheduled transfer of some other design would equally exclude you from missed departure cover.

Like bedfordblue mentions, off piste is a concern. There seems to be 3 types of insurance, 1) most basic with no off piste at all, 2) in-bounds off piste 3) anywhere. Having looked at alot in the first bracket, id be very wary of these, it isnt a big problem though because there are plenty fall under 2. It would however remain to be seen what would happen were an inbounds event to result in your being out of bounds.

Third point ive been watching is the helicopter rescue..... it is amazing how few policies make explicit comment about this. It often takes you to spot something on the website (not on the policy document) pertaining to this..... if the policy I get doesnt mention it, I'll be taking a screengrab from the website just in case.

Lastly (for now), the issue of theft or loss of ski gear. I remember this gem last year but dont recall so much trouble getting around it. Almost every policy (beyond those properly specialist in skiing) exclude you if your gear is left in a public area unattended. Maybe I am getting unlucky with the policies I have checked, but only one of the more budget options I have looked at is in any way ambiguous stating simply that 'reasonable care and attention' must be taken (which to me says if you lock it, then you are ok- of course how can you prove it was locked if the thief pinches the lock!).

With these points principle in my mind, essentialtravel seems to offer a reasonable deal. The payouts are not the very best but they arent bad. They do cover for in-bounds off piste (and out of bounds with a guide), they cover missed departure due to delay of a taxi, the website claims helicopter rescue is accepted if deemed necessary and 'reasonable safety and supervision' is all that is required to cover your ski gear. Has anyone used essential travel or heard of the underwriters, Groupama insurance company ltd?

Adam
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Groupama is a very big French insurer...this from the UK website

"Groupama Insurances is one of the UK’s leading general insurance groups.
From high volume, lower premium products such as motor and home insurance right through to healthcare and comprehensive commercial covers for the smaller business sector, Groupama Insurances has the experience and expertise to offer high quality insurance protection with service to match.

Our parent company - Groupama - is the world's third largest property and casualty mutual, and is one of the strongest financial groups in Europe. With annual revenues of around €13 billion and assets under management of close to €50 billion, the Group conducts business in many countries around the world. An acknowledged expert in health and agricultural insurance, Groupama has a workforce of over 32,000 people.

The UK Group's Head Office is based in the heart of the City of London. Our personal and commercial insurance business is centralised in Manchester - with claims handled in specialist centres around the UK. Our growing Healthcare division is headquartered in Tonbridge."
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks Colin..... they sound like they should be an organisation of significant enough size that there shouldnt be problems.....
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've just renewed with direct-travel - £84 worldwide - mainly because they offer unlimited winter sports coverage whereas most limit you to 14 or 21 days - providing no individual trip is longer than 42 days - I wish...
discussed the issue of ski theft with them and they said they would cover if stolen from outside a restaurant on the mountain - but might look at the claim more closely if they were nicked from outside a bar at midnight....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Im still in debate whether to renew with direct at £72 or to save £15 and try essential travel.... I was going to stick with direct due to being underwritten by Axa, however, if Groupama is as big as Colin says, then there should be no real benefit being with axa instead.... so im in dilema once more!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
buns, After a battle getting my claim paid with Direct Travel last winter, I am considering going with Snowcard, who are considerably more expensive. I'm not sure I have confidence in Direct Travel now, because of the claims handling process.
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hmmmm thanks for that snowbunny.... that would encourage me to try someone different. Im a bit reluctant to spend a fortune because I probably wont get more than the one trip and I am almost certainly never going to shift from anything but the most standard terrain, so snowcard is a little bit more than I want!
Very Happy

Adam
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
buns, Direct Travel are no longer using the same claims handling agent, however there are no guarantees that they will not be operating the same regime, having taken the claims processing in-house. You believe that snowcard is little more than you want... consider that, I was knocked down on a nursery/novice pisted area. No cliff jumping antics from me Evil or Very Mad Suggest that you also check out Fogg Travel at this address http://www.fogginsure.co.uk/ may be worth your while, even for comparison.
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Had a look at Fogg... the economy is pretty terrible! I just wouldnt go to N.America on this policy.... the deluxe isnt too bad though.

I'll have another look on snowcard.... I guess it probably takes you to be involved in something for you to appreciate the importance of good insurance! Do you mind my asking what the difficulty in claiming was for you?

All the best

Adam
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
buns,
Quote:

Do you mind my asking what the difficulty in claiming was for you?

My problems, with Direct Travel, began with being asked to undertake activities in resort which were not for my benefit: for example I was ordered to fax them the Drs report, which involved me trudging through knee deep snow to the Tourist Office, holding my broken collarbone. I was told by the co. afterwards "well, we just wanted to see the report" Twisted Evil
On arrival home, I made 3 separate request for the forms to be sent, before I received anything. I was so poorly I was unable to complete the forms, so the co. sent an extra 9 questions, including some which amazed me, and other SH: for example, when I queried the (Q, what colour of run were you on when the accident occured?), I was told "So we can tell what level of skier you are" Not the reply you would expect from a skiers' insurer.
Finally, I felt obliged to make a formal written complaint to AXA, in order to get the correct payout, which I achieved. The claims handlers simply stonewalled me at every call. Here is the original thread which I started after returning injured.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=5043&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=strategic+claims+management&start=0
My view is that they are ALL umbrella salesman Evil or Very Mad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Jeeees Snowbunny.... that is seriously scary! The worst thing is that it probably wouldnt have mattered who you were insured with, you would still have been subjected to the horrendous situation of having to go and find cash! It worries me somewhat because my cash cards have never functioned outside of the UK.... in theory someone could be injured and insured, but not get any treatment because they had no access to cash! It sounds to me that the very first call anyone should ever make should be to the insurance company, being rescued is something of a minor point!

A serious point.... how does one decide whether one insurance policy is better than another. The essential travel policy i noted earlier compared to the likes of the snowcard. Both are underwritten by who appear to be major insurance companies, both appear to have acceptable medical and liability cover, cancellation and curtailment are not dissimilar.... so why is one twice as expensive as the other? Is there any real way of telling how troublesome claiming is going to be?

Adam
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
buns, Consider asking a potential insurer who exactly deals with their claims on their behalf.
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Let us not forget that you are required by most insurers to have one of the E111 replacement cards as has been discussed elsewhere.

Insurance is qite hot potato but it does seem to me that you get what you pay for. Buns dont forget that your annual cover also covers you for any other holiday travel not just Skiing.

I am still not convinced of the need for me to to change from SCGB.
What difference would purchasing a carte neige in the resort make when considering paying for the initial rescus and treatment?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowbunny wrote:
buns, Consider asking a potential insurer who exactly deals with their claims on their behalf.


So do you consider now that in-house dealing is a better regime? Is this what I am looking for?

Has the E111 not been replaced by something else now?

It has surprised me, but quite a few quotes are cheaper for annual with snow as opposed to an individual snow trip!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
In terms of cover/cost i think the SCGB cover is hard to beat. Standard Europe annual incl 17 days wintersports for me and my wife £52
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
SCGB is great if you're skiing less than 17 days - we've 18 booked already and would like to get another week in if we can manage it
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
buns,
Quote:

Has the E111 not been replaced by something else now?

Yes, it's a card called the EHIC. No E111's from 1 Jan 06
Quote:

So do you consider now that in-house dealing is a better regime? Is this what I am looking for?

I would advise you to avoid Strategic Claims Management Ltd, as they used to be Direct Travels' claims handler, and they have had lots of bad press.
I may still reinsure with Direct Travel, I have yet to make up my mind, but my SO is keen, despite my experiences.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Anyone used insureandgo.com? Prices seem pretty competitive and whatnot.


one thing to note, I;'ve seen a few policies which will only pay for piste closure
a) due to not enough snow
or
b) due to not enough or too much snow

and c) if you;re staying in a resort at least 1000m above sea level

well, the only time I've made a claim for piste closure recently was in Flaine, that claim was due to rain not snow! well, high winds etc meant that lifts were closed, but it wouldn;t have counted on that wording.

Also, quite a number of resorts are less than 1000m above sea level - e,g, we're off to Whistler which is only 675m!

Good point that. might cross them off the list...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I dont know about the members options, but the standard SCGB doesnt offer the greatest of payouts....

nbt: I went through insure&go but it was scored off without so much as a quotation price noted.... cant remember exactly why though!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The cover offered by a policy ie no exclusions is more important than the level of payout. As long as you have at least £2m of medical cover for Europe and £10m for the States the payout from most standard cover would be sufficent for all the non medical claims.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very good thread. Anything that helps others save money has to be a good idea.

Never go for what looks like the best offer straight away - most searches were throwing up £90-120 for the same cover. But after few minutes Googling, I found moneysupermarket.com and booked annual worldwide cover for my wife and myself (which allows upto 31 days of ski cover) for £59.
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riverman wrote:
The cover offered by a policy ie no exclusions is more important than the level of payout. As long as you have at least £2m of medical cover for Europe and £10m for the States the payout from most standard cover would be sufficent for all the non medical claims.


The 10M medical in N.America is where i am referring to..... SCGB (for example) I think were only offering 2M for the worldwide.... there are many others similar or 5M. I am reluctant unless there is 10M in place
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
riverman, £10m is totally OTT. You would in fact be a gonner if you needed that much treatment. Largest travel insurance medical claim ever (I'm informed) was £1.2 million.

Durham Red, I've said it before and I'll say it again... a good deal on insurance isn't the same as a good deal on a pair of skis. Insurance companies are in it for profit and premiums always eventually have to outweigh claims paid out. You'll be alright on medical claims and repatriation where suppliers are paid directly but expect a tougher time on minor claims. I hit Soll on 12th for 4 days by the way. Where you staying?
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I have just taken out insurance with Ski-insurance.co.uk I think its AXA who provide the cover for £24 for a seven day trip to val d'isere. seems very reasonable. found it in a flyer provided by snow-safe.co.uk
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
JohnHill,

Yeah, I know what you're getting at with the insurance, but my view is that the money you save year in/year out covers the small excesses on lost baggage etc on the occasion when it does happen - as I'm a p*ss-poor skiier, I don't have any skis to lose either.

I'm in the Modlinger for a week. You?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Durham Red, Alpenschlossl... out of town, further up the hill than you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
As it happens I'm busy trawling the web for best deal on an annual right now. I'll let you know what I dig up when I'm done... might take a few days as I always need to call to ask difficult questions. Some useful suggestions here to start with though.

Have to say I've always gone for size - insurance has no value unless you make a claim and I always believe (perhaps mistakenly) that the big boys will make less of a fuss about coughing up.
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Durham Red wrote:
Very good thread. Anything that helps others save money has to be a good idea.

Never go for what looks like the best offer straight away - most searches were throwing up £90-120 for the same cover. But after few minutes Googling, I found moneysupermarket.com and booked annual worldwide cover for my wife and myself (which allows upto 31 days of ski cover) for £59.


Sorry but i had a look at the policy details and as I read it you are insured for 31 days for any one trip but there is a caveat that says only 17 days of wintersports cover. I may be wrong but i dont think so.
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