Ok, been interested in ski touring for a while, have never done it, but got invited to a week tour in the alps next winter. Am a advanced (careful to use expert, as there are so many good skiers on this forum) fixed heel regular skieer. Ski pretty much everything on piste and love the off piste, so fairly comfortable leaving the resort. Know all about regular (what term should I use?, alpine?) skis/boots/binding etc, and only what I learned about AT (again what term? Touring) from the Internet.
I will definitely learn before heading out for a week long tour (silverstra?, does that mean anything to anyone?), but certainly hope to catch the bug and continue touring. Last background info, I live in the east coast USA, touring is not a big thing here and there are minimal shop staffed with people that carry or know about AT equipment. So the questions,
Do I go and try and find an AT boot fitter, bite the bullet and make sure my feet feel good (like with regular skis, make sure boots are snug before everything else). Since I have never rented regular ski boots that were close to fitting properly, is that the same with AT boots?
Skis, bindings? Rent them? It's hard to rent here, so not sure how I would practice much skinning, etc locally before the silvestra trip unless I buy the whole setup. Europe seems to have much more rentals options than here. Do I therefore just bite the bullet and buy the whole setup, practice for a few months before next March, know I'll love it and will get good use out of them in the future.
As for whether you buy or rent it is up to you. Round your way you may find it easier to rent and tour on nordic skis - they are like touring skis with a metal edge but very light and with a cross country ski binding or even rent light telemark gear.
You say rental is problematic but what about buying round your way, are there many options? You could rent at the start of your tour in Europe but you may also get some good deals on gear now it is summer. The problem is, do you know what you need?
Don't get touring boots too snug. When I buy boots I go to a shop with a big range and try a lot on. I buy same size as my street shoe fitting: 42 shoes, 26.5 or 27 mondo boots. Perfect. All the tourers I know do the same, the only people I know who have fitting are those with problem feet. Maybe a couple of people amongst the 200 or 300 tourers I know. There are lots of threads on boot fitting if you search but we are not talking about tight fitting alpine boots but something you need to tour as well as ski.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Redwine, check out wildsnow.com and look for info there on dynafit and other bindings and specialist ski shops in the US eg (cut from a discussion on the site):
''Northeast backcountry ski shops are generally dominated by tele, with the AT subset dominated by Diamir. At the other end of the spectrum, many alpine downhill shops are starting to dabble in AT a bit via Marker bindings.
That said, for Northeast shops that are of interest to WildSnow readers (i.e., should know how to mount Dynafit bindings – or G3 Onyx/Ruby – and that carry more than just a couple or so “Tech”-compatible boots), I’m pretty sure these are the top choices, with locations corresponding to northern NY, VT, and NH (respectively)
http://Mountaineer.com http://GearX.com http://www.RaggedMountain.com
Also, in northern NH, the EMS store near Mount Washington:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Conway-NH/Eastern-Mountain-Sports-EMS-North-Conway/181999738415
… has been stepping it up somewhat in recent years. Maybe the EMS in Burlington VT too, but would need to verify that.
Northern ME has http://www.AlpenglowGear.com which is affiliated with (owned by?) an internationally certified mountain guide. In Northern NY, http://HighPeaksCyclery.com used to have some sort of special Dynafit designation, but it was revoked, so no idea what they’re like these days.
Further south, central VT has http://www.MtnTravelers.com which is mainly tele, but does stock some Tech-compatible boots, and the owner, although a die-hard telemarker, does try to stay informed about AT gear. The other two more southerly dealers in NY and NH respectively are http://www.HighAdventuresBP.com and http://www.FireOnTheMtn.com although I don’t know much about them.
The Dynafit dealer locator includes some other EMS and REI locations, but they tend to have pretty much nothing in stock and only very limited experience.''
My view is that you should buy a cross over ski boot (AT ie alpine/touring boot) which can be used in dynafit or regular bindings without a ole change ideally. then rent your skis etc in Europe. Using dynafit for the first time on a tour is not recommended so better to use an AT binding as opposed to a pin or tech binging (wildsnow site has a lot of binding reviews for context). Most rentals in Europe will be AT bindings in any event.
I have K2 Pinnacle boots which are fine, not the lightest but no problem for touring. Scott are also good. I say these brands as I think they are both common in the US.
For minimum outlay, all you need is a pair of Alpine Trekkers and a pair of skins. The latter need to fit your skis but you can do this yourself. Then just use all your existing stuff - but be prepared to 'dress down'. You'll get hot!
This'll allow you to get a feel for what it's like and will give you some ideas about what you want to focus on.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
When you say you've been invited to "a week tour" what exactly is that going to entail. Might effect the answers others give. I've only done a weeks introductory a few years ago but still interested. I've read threads on here where people say if you are only doing a bit of uphill but using lifts a lot getting AT boots isn't necessary or a good idea. Same sort of logic regarding the skis+bindings aswell. But if you are doing a full on tour week then I'd guess you would need a proper set up.
Wow, thanks all for quick responses. So yes it's silvretta. It's a 6 day tour that is being organized by a friend that did the haute route last year. It's describes to me as moderately hard uphill, but not too hard. Having said that I don't want this to be my intro to back country, I want to experience all the ascents and descents I can. I'm in pretty good physical shape now and other than altitude will train everything else hard, lungs, muscles and practice before trip that I can.
So I love alpine downhill, off and on piste. Would love to translate downhill feeling to backcountry as much as possible. Tele not too much interest, don't yhink knees can take it. If I go AT gear is dyna fit a clear choice (seems all the guys on this trip are dynafit ppl) and in that case just find a boot fitter within 300 miles of me and schlep to try them? I assume I can get other gear online, but boots have to be fitted? I'm sure there are ppl that use this equipment around tuckermans etc, but I just haven't struck that vein yet, so thanks for the guidance.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Redwine wrote:
I assume I can get other gear online, but boots have to be fitted?
boots have to fit, whether you need help with that is another matter. If you have boots that don't fit well on a 1 day tour it's maybe not a disaster (ok you may suffer severe blisters and your toe nails drop off) but on a 6 day hut to hut tour it could be a bit of a nightmare bordering on dangerous.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
All the tourers I know do the same, the only people I know who have fitting are those with problem feet
seems a bit of a conflict with
Quote:
If you have boots that don't fit well on a 1 day tour it's maybe not a disaster (ok you may suffer severe blisters and your toe nails drop off) but on a 6 day hut to hut tour it could be a bit of a nightmare bordering on dangerous.
You have much more touring experience than me but I've seen enough problems with badly rubbed side of heels from skinning in boots that aren't snug enough to be wary of advice just to buy them roomy. No?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jedster wrote:
Quote:
All the tourers I know do the same, the only people I know who have fitting are those with problem feet
seems a bit of a conflict with
Quote:
If you have boots that don't fit well on a 1 day tour it's maybe not a disaster (ok you may suffer severe blisters and your toe nails drop off) but on a 6 day hut to hut tour it could be a bit of a nightmare bordering on dangerous.
You have much more touring experience than me but I've seen enough problems with badly rubbed side of heels from skinning in boots that aren't snug enough to be wary of advice just to buy them roomy. No?
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
I'm suggesting the OP goes to a shop and tries on a range of boots to find those which fit. He made need help doing this depending on his experience level. Even then things like general skiing level and fitness may affect how comfortable he is touring. Certainly lots of people do multi-day tours on hire gear.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thanks for all the views. do people here think that buying your own boots is essential? I believe that having your own boots are essential for alpine gear, never had rentals that came close to what I liked in fixed heel equipment. Is it differnt in the alpine touring world, can one actually rent stuff that is OK?
Then, if renting equipment in europe, do I have to know how to use tech bindings and therefore need to practice on these binding before my trip? or maybe phrased a differnt way, should I be renting tech binding (dynafit, excuse me if I am using terms incorrectly) because it is just alot more enjoyable for a 6 day hut tour.
Think I will be calling some shops in the new england area this weekend, so any insight provided here will help me ask the right questions and not just being sold stuff they want to get rid of.
Golf anyone??
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Redwine, most resorts in Europe hire AT bindings (by this I mean a binding that looks like a regular ski binding but can switch into a liftable heel which can be used with skins) as opposed to dynafit (there are some exceptions in Chamonix and well known touring areas where shops do stock dynafit rental skis). you would probably want to prebook these ski in any event in case there is limited supply. if you pre booked them you could use your regular ski boots with them if you were happy with their weight and flexibility. buying AT boots is a compromise as they are not as light as a scarpa type boot etc etc but those boots are primarily for use with pin bindings.
if you have not skinned at all before you would do well to practice basic skinning techniques including putting skins on and off and kick turning. you could use the internet to give you an idea but there is no substitute for hands on practice. a shop with the kit on sale should be able to talk you through this. or you could go out a dya or more before the tour begins to get used to the kit
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Well I wouldn't say I have problem feet but I do have rather narrow heels (relative to the rest of my foot). A boot that grips my heel tends to be pretty narrow across my forefoot. I would be very reluctant to buy a boot that was comfortable out of the box because I think I would end up with my heels moving and rubbing (this has happened in the past). And from what I've seen this is not an uncommon problem - seen plenty of photos of badly cratered inside heels from multi day touring trips. Of course you can get by with loads of strapping but best avoided if you can. For me, a snugger boot with a forefoot stretch is likely to give a better result.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
jedster wrote:
Quote:
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Well I wouldn't say I have problem feet but I do have rather narrow heels (relative to the rest of my foot). A boot that grips my heel tends to be pretty narrow across my forefoot. I would be very reluctant to buy a boot that was comfortable out of the box because I think I would end up with my heels moving and rubbing (this has happened in the past). And from what I've seen this is not an uncommon problem - seen plenty of photos of badly cratered inside heels from multi day touring trips. Of course you can get by with loads of strapping but best avoided if you can. For me, a snugger boot with a forefoot stretch is likely to give a better result.
Okay, that makes sense for you and you have a good idea of your particular needs. If the OP hasn't toured before he could certainly do to talk to a shop that has a good range of boots and knows about them and the type of feet they fit.
The bottom line is a boot that fits, esp. for a multiday tour even if some people do it with hire gear. That certainly isn't going to be a mail order boot.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Redwine, just bite the bullet and buy the stuff so you have a couple of months use. Most boots now have thermofit liners that you do yourself and I just swap my insoles from my Alpine boots anyway.
This past season I've seen two people, one a guide have horrendous problems with their feet using boots that previously they have had no problems with.
As for me, I went through first two thirds of the season without any issues and then come the Spring skiing season ended up with a couple of blisters as my feet were sweating more!
I can also find pressure points might vary from one season to another, so basically what I'm saying is, you might be all snug in a shop etc but it's not till you get out there and start skinning that you will find the problems, then get the blister earlier on and then by the time you go it will be hard scarred skin and hopefully will not blister again, or use a compeed on that point.
It's also worth considering a more downhill orientated boot that you can tour in as well as use it on the piste. Most of the major manufacturers are now going down this route with boots.
Salomon for instance in their MTN Lab boot range have two boots one more focused on going up the other on going down, these are touring boots though. That said I was charging around the piste on my MTB Explorers lovin them.
I normally ski with Atomic Waymaker 90 boots if that makes a difference. It is supposed to have a ski/walk lever on the back that I have never used. Not sure if I would be happy climbing for 6 days in them though.
If I had extra dough, I would just put out for the equipment, and still might, but I still cant get my head around if it makes sense to buy AT specific boots.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've done several hut-to-hut tours in downhill boots (Flexons) and they were fine. One time the hut was about an hour's walk below the snow line and I'll admit that was about my limit.
I now have some proper touring boots and never put them into walk mode unless I'm actually walking.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Redwine, I've done the Silvretta, it's really good. Comfortable huts, no super hard days, and great scenery, plus a few side options if you fancy it like the Piz Buin. We did it in April started high in the Ischgl (where you will be able to hire kit at a price) system and skied out with no walking below the snow line. We stayed before and after the tour, cheaply in a village down the valley a little.
If you have off the shelf feet then hiring shouldn't be a issue and is cheaper, BUT having your own gear and being used to it is much better. The only downside is that if you really get the bug you will soon be wanting to up grade to tech bindings, so if you do get boots make sure they are tech compatible.
To sum up, my advice would be to buy some boots, unless you have flat feet I would recommend scarpa meastrals RS, then either hire or buy some skis and skins and get some miles on them. I ski all season in the meastrals and use them for everything, only thing is I need AT compatible bindings for my downhill skis.
You're going to love it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
if you really get the bug you will soon be wanting to up grade to tech bindings, so if you do get boots make sure they are tech compatible
I would recommend to get fitted as with AT boots good fit is even more important than with regular alpine boots. Technical gear (boots and bindings) have the advantage of being light and if you are to do anything longer than 2-hour climbs you will be appreciate the lighter weight. When buying bindings also get compatible ski crampons and learn how to fit them. Basically learn how your gear works before you get to snow. And practice skinning before you start touring.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
One hint which may be useful... I have narrow heels and even with Dynafit boots I still got blisters. The solution... wide white medical zinc oxide tape overthe rear of my ankles and ski compression socks... not a hint of a blister since then.
wide white medical zinc oxide tape overthe rear of my ankles
Sounds like good advice. Even if you don't tape up before you start, I strongly recommend stopping and taping AT THE FIRST HINT of a hot spot. Compeed are good but IME you need to tape over them to keep them in place on a long skin.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@jedster, That's what I found with compeed. If you are still exercising hard they often slide loose. I did a hike the other day of 25km on moorland (first hike for a year) and with taping I had no hotspots at all. Yup - compression socks are getting quite popular for ski touring. They are a bit of a pain to get on but have an extremely snug fit with no movement.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
