 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's good to see some acknowledgement that they could do a little better. I think things have gradually improved over the years anyway but they can still be typically "French" sometimes. Not that Brits don't have their own issues 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The mayor in our village during his AGM stressed the importance of "looking after" visitors to the village and said that the local business should provide services throughout the tourist seasons, not close early and by coordinating opening hours to avoid all restaurants being closed on the same day. It is a small resort and clearly aligned towards the French vacation periods but at least there is now a recognition of the need to raise the level.
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Not sure it will work. We seem to have been annoying each other for over 1000 years.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Don Keebles, I think it's more the Chinese and Japanese tourists they are concerned about being rude to
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Never had a problem while in FR, on the contrary, people are very nice, be it Paris or a small village in Bretanny/Normandy, Bourgonne, Champaign area or the Alpine regions ...
FR do have an ethiquete that is not always known/obvious to foreign visitors, but living in Belgium I'm quite exposed to FR everyday culture (also many FR friends). It was funny when a waiter in a small town tried to convince my group of not to order a local speciality (a sausage made of intenstine, with some meat pieces in between - aka andouillette) he said, it was only for locals and 'very special', but we convinced him we meant it  If you make a small effort of just saying 'bonjour', it will take you a long way even if that is all you know. FR way of speaking or dealing in the service industry is characterised by 'asking' rather than 'telling', 'instructing' or 'giving orders' - as neither EN nor FR are my native languages, I see a difference in that EN language being more direct (e.g. 'you' in FR could either be 'vous' or 'tu' in addressing a single person).
Same with FR restaurant etiquete - it is not easy. Askig rather than instructing is the right way. Most of waiters in FR are not only taking food to your table, but they are there to advice you. With my broken FR I always ask for an advice or simply inquiring of what he/she could recomend today - simply the approach is different. It is only a nuance, but you do get a smile back if you 'appreciate' the person serving you and not only barking (as that would be understood in FR language) 'I will have a steak'.
No huge differencies, just nuances. Once you start noticing these nuances, it becomes so much more enjoyable.
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Having witnessed in Chamonix a small avalanche onto a piste, I skied down with some urgency to report it. I came upon a piste security guy. I skied up to him, he greeted me with a friendly Bonjour, I quickly blurted out the details of the incident i had seen, he looked at me disapprovingly and repeated his Bonjour.
I don't think the French are rude or unfriendly they are in the main polite it's just a case of knowing the routine.
I did see a very funny encounter between a mature french waiter and some f rich Russian teenagers, needless to say the waiter got the better of them.
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@mooney058, Very good advice. I also believe that these days it's not really the done thing to address the waiter as "garçon!" 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @mooney058, Very good advice. I also believe that these days it's not really the done thing to address the waiter as "garçon!" |
I'm always embarrassed when my dad in law clicks his fingers at them. Still they seem to come running pretty quickly when he does.
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| Quote: |
Having witnessed in Chamonix a small avalanche onto a piste, I skied down with some urgency to report it. I came upon a piste security guy. I skied up to him, he greeted me with a friendly Bonjour, I quickly blurted out the details of the incident i had seen, he looked at me disapprovingly and repeated his Bonjour.
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As a counterpoint, whilst in Sainte Foy this winter I had a chat with the pisteur about our intended route and the conditions and he was really helpful, pointed out a couple of local hazards not immediately obvious from the map and mentioned a couple of spots that should still be holding good snow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jbob wrote: |
Having witnessed in Chamonix a small avalanche onto a piste, I skied down with some urgency to report it. I came upon a piste security guy. I skied up to him, he greeted me with a friendly Bonjour, I quickly blurted out the details of the incident i had seen, he looked at me disapprovingly and repeated his Bonjour.
I don't think the French are rude or unfriendly they are in the main polite it's just a case of knowing the routine.
I did see a very funny encounter between a mature french waiter and some f rich Russian teenagers, needless to say the waiter got the better of them. |
So rather than appreciate your efforts to 'do the right thing' by reporting the incident the Piste Patroller choose to attempt to belittle you for a minor courtesy infringement which was I would have thought self evidently caused by your wish to promptly deliver news to him that affected his area of responsibility & possibly the safety of those he was responsible for.
&
The waiter got the better of the teenagers, no doubt believing he had belittled them too, as a result they probably took there money elsewhere in the future meaning the waiters employer suffered **.
I think you make the Minister's point very well.
** mind you the employer was probably CdMB, so who would care.
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Worst service of my life was probably some up himself waiter at the main Brevent resto. Most irritating recent incident was the give people the runaround, we only care about new clientele not you English scum attitude from the front desk at the Oxalys on departure Saturday.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, perhaps that is because you are supposed to check out on Friday evening, just leaving your key at the desk on Saturday. Polite and courteous as always when I checked out and paid for our parking and dog. We were advised in advance, tags were left on all the apartment doors.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of Francophiles on SHs. Sure some great service in France and oftentimes rude customers. But I'd fall off my stool if any reasonably travelled person could honestly say French service was above the median of all countries they've been to
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| Lots of Francophiles on SHs. Sure some great service in France and oftentimes rude customers. But I'd fall off my stool if any reasonably travelled person could honestly say French service was above the median of all countries they've been to |
Yes in comparison to: the Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Spain, Italy, Czech Rep, the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Bulgaria, Turkey, Luxembourgh, etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, perhaps that is because you are supposed to check out on Friday evening, just leaving your key at the desk on Saturday. Polite and courteous as always when I checked out and paid for our parking and dog. We were advised in advance, tags were left on all the apartment doors. |
No nothing to do with that I was given an extended runaround middle of my skiing day because they were insisting that Spyderjon's car was moved from the car park because they had guests arriving ( he'd already offered to pay for another day and been told it was fine to leave it so this was total bs from them.) As I had his keys I volunteered to do them a favour - boots off slippers on get car in only space in front of doors. Boots on.
"Oh no Monsieur you can't leave it there"
" So why not make these people go down and park in garage ? "
Non we cannot make them"
OK then let me have the space they don't want to 4 pm"
" Non we can't" Eventually boots off slippers on move car again up against wall.
I was fuming by this stage as remember this was a favour to them for their own demand which was due to their own miscommunication. Not a touch of thanks just haughty arrogance. Utter utter counts. I basically threw filthy slippers on the couch after boots on again. If I could have shat on it I would. The whole vibe they conveyed was "feck of we only care about these newly arrived cloggie guests"
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 22-06-15 23:03; edited 1 time in total
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Going back to the original post it seems like the French have discovered Irony maybe it's time for the Germans to discover Humour and for the Brits to discover respect for different cultures and attitudes
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, blimey. Top rant. 
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I haven't been as angry as I was then in a very long time. Absolutely no effort to problem solve on their part, no concession just " it's your problem" .
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If the French are going to start pretending to be nice to us then what's the point of going there any more? You might as well go to Austria and get the real thing
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Waterloo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting to read it's just the English who often get poor service.
We much prefer Italy for both summer and winter holidays as it doesn't feel like you're ruining their day by trying to buy a drink or order a meal, much as we try to speak the language and be respectful.
I think Europe had to pulls her socks up in terms of service when the North Americans started taking a bigger share of the ski market about twenty years ago. At the time, a ski holiday over there was a far more enjoyable experience -few queues and everybody bending over backwards to help you. It felt like a different world.
I think trying to blame the English as Francophiles is a bit of a cop out really. Spain has long since had to deal with the bottom of the British gene pool with their disrespectful behaviour and lack of language skills. I'm not saying they should have to deal with this, but their service is generally first class throughout. The French service has long had a reputation for being poor and rude compared to other nations. That is, of course, a generalisation and some can be fantastic.
We own a catering company and the first rule that all staff learn is that customers leave with a smile on their face and we try to enhance their day with what we do. That way, people come back. I can see where the French Foreign Minister is coming from.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, even stranger, as I've always had the impression they didn't really like the Dutch being there. But as you say, unacceptable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The French can be very kind. I remember going from Grenoble to Geneva by train. Straightforward, until there was a sudden change (I think caused by someone being killed injured somewhere on the route). Lots of announcements on the tannoy, which I struggled to comprehend with my rudimentary French. The French around me saw that I was concerned, and went out of their way to advise me, and those going on the first train with me made sure I got off where I needed to change. Very decent folk, I thought.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| I think trying to blame the English as Francophiles is a bit of a cop out really. |
Err, did you mean Francophobes? 
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You know it makes sense.
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I can only speak for myself or 'examples' I witnesed directly - some tourists are not respectful without realising it and then blaming it on the hosts.
I'm not so sure being a tourist gives you 'a pass' from being polite and considerate. People are compationate and will try to help you almost anywhere and FR in my own experience are one of the most accomodating hosts. You just need a basic knowledge of how 'things are done'. Will there be rude people, someone having a bad day etc -yes, everywhere in a world. But in my own experience and observations - if you are polite and considerate, you will be treated the same way. Sometimes 'conflicts' arrise because of a cultural context, but I'm sure both the 'guest' and 'host' have to make an effort.
I choose FR both for summer and winter holidays, and I would hate if it would become like NL, BE, UK or somewhere else. It is a beatiful country with nice people. Just do not try to push them to become more like the UK or US. If you like it - choose your destination accordingly. I trully hope FR stays as it is.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 23-06-15 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mooney058, well said
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Poster: A snowHead
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I find the people I meet in France to be kind and helpful too. We visit a Chambre d'hote in Epernay, he speaks no English but we still manage a conversation and enjoy a glass of his Champagne. My own French is passabl, but my hubby struggles. Going to our apartment really does feel like home. The villagers and local residents are all very friendly. Where I have experienced some animosity it has been from a few other residents in our apartments, and only a very few. One scathingly replying to another email from an English-speaker that the communication should be in French as our apartments were in France. He was roundly jumped on by the other owners one of whom invited all of the English/non-French people for drinks on our next visit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And now p*ssing off the peeps of Kent as operation stack phase 2 is implemented.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Strikes happen everythere, but indeed FR have 'mastered' this craft. Although when it comes to say rail service, I will take FR rail experience (although it goes on strikes from time to time) over UK rail experience - even when not on strike, UK rail experience feels like when FR are striking ....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Layne wrote: |
I'm torn. I am not sure I want the French to change, in the sense that the gallic shrug and their occasional impoliteness is a part of my life, providing me with many experiences of incredulity and amusement. On the other hand as others say it would be nice if buying lunch in a restaurant didn't seem such a hassle to certain waiting staff.
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For the most part I agree with this. Most French people I encounter when travelling there are perfectly nice and many of course will go out of their way to help others e.g. even Parisians helping my parents with their luggage on the RER. Just occasionally a bit of "you're not following our unwritten rules" or " you clearly aren't worthy of my attention as you're not a native/dressed right etc" creeps through.
Thinking about it Custardo and I were roundly ignored last year by wait staff at the terrace at the top of Courchevel for at least 10 minutes despite them having at max 2 other tables to serve. No problem we drank our water in nice surroundings, put sun cream on and left. Their loss not ours.
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| Layne wrote: |
The reality of course, given it is the most visited country in the world, that for the most part France, and it's people, are wonderful. If you want to see real impoliteness, go to north Wales  |
Well it may not be statistically significant, but many years ago for the first time I was motoring through North Wales and was getting a bit low on fuel so pulled into a petrol station. It wasn't self-service, so the guy comes out from the building and starts talking to me in Welsh. I politely said "I'm sorry, I don't speak Welsh, can you fill her up please" but rather than switch to English (which I'd be astounded if he didn't actually know at least a smattering of) he continued speaking to me in Welsh. I got the intended message, drove off and spent my money elsewhere...
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| I think trying to blame the English as Francophiles is a bit of a cop out really. |
Err, did you mean Francophobes? |
Yes - only a slight difference!
I once saw a sign in a hotel in Greece which, with the risk of being politically incorrect, read like this.
Heaven is where:
The French are the chefs
The Germans are the mechanics
The Italians are the lovers
The English are the policemen
and the whole thing is organised by the Swiss
Hell is where:
The English are the chefs
The French are the mechanics
The Swiss are the lovers
The Germans are the policemen
and the whole thing is organised by the Italians
The hotel owner took pains to point out to us just how true this all was. All of us, from many nationalities seemed to agree - except the Swiss guy......
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@cameronphillips2000, I'd rather:-
The Italians are the chefs
The Germans are the mechanics
The Italians are the lovers
The English are the policemen
The whole thing is organised by the Germans and English, and the French can join us if they can be bothered and aren't on strike
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In my fav resort (St Foy) in one of the mountain restos there is a meniu that reads something like this:
1. café - EUR 10
2. café s'il vous plaît - EUR 3
3. bonjour, café s'il vous plaît EUR 1.5
enough said
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@mooney058, oh, that is perfect. Love it. I shall be encouraging elsewhere.
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