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BASI L1 - Dryslope or Snowdome? - Course Completed

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm planning on doing my L1 sometime in the coming months. I have the option of doing it at Hillend (dryslope) or Braehead (Snowdome) but unsure which to choose. I had my first lesson at Hillend almost 38 years ago and have skied there many times in the intervening years, but in those years I've grown to dislike it. I know I never ski as well there as I do on the mountain or in a snowdome. A bad workman always blames his tools but I do believe the hire skis at Hillend don't help. The edges are as blunt as a wooden sword and most have bases with deeper lines than Ronnie Wood has on his face. Being just over 6 foot and 15st 7lb I struggle to get any grip on "The Face" at the the top of the slope. I ski it like a beginner. Last Friday I was there with my 7 year old and he left me for dead down The Face! Shocked Shocked Shocked

For me the attraction of Braehead is clear; a surface I prefer skiing on, I'd use my own skis and I wouldn't have to tackle the The Face on edgeless hire skis! However, should I pass I'm likely to do all my shadowing and eventual teaching at Hillend so my conscience is pointing me towards Rule 5.

I could, of course, get round the issue of crap hire skis and use the new Head Magnums I've just bought or my 3 year old Fischer Motive 86. I don't relish the thought of wrecking either but gouging lumps out of them or worse still melting the bases. If I do go down this route I suspect I'd need to have a nighlty edge and wax session.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who had a similar dilemma.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 7-08-15 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Gaza, don't be daft. The purpose of the course is to teach you to teach other people (and for you to pass). So of course you should do it in the environment you feel most comfortable in (Braehead). That way, you relax, you concentrate on the Trainer, you learn more and you pass the course comfortably. Once you've got the badge, you go back to Hillend and adapt your demos etc. to that surface. No brainer.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I like your thought process @Raceplate. My real preference would be to do it on a mountain but none of the dates I've seen work for me.
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Can't remember who, but I read on here someone buying a cheapo pair of Head skis from Glisshop recently just to use on dryslopes. Might be an option for when you do your shadowing at Hillend - after all it wouldn't look great if you are teaching on there but struggling, so might be worth the investment.

Or if you can afford another new pair of top end skis, get some and demote the Fischers to dry slope duties! Laughing
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@hammerite, my use of 'struggling' was probably overstating the issue. 'Uncomfortable' is probably a better description.

Mrs Gaza would have a fit if I suggested buying any more pairs of skis. In addition to the Magnums Junior Gaza has just had a pair of Salomon X-RACE JR SL and there are a pair of K2 Juvys in the attic that Santa picked up in an end of season sale for this Christmas. Very Happy

I might have a trawl of ebay and Gumtree to see if there is anything on there.
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My daughter did her L1 at Hemel and all her shadowing and a bit of teaching at Tallington Lakes dry slope. She'd never skied on one before but it only took a couple of runs to get the feel. She just used the pair of not too wide twintips that she'd used prior to getting a new pair of piste skis for her L1.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Just a thought (unrelated to your actual question) - if you as a competant skier can't ski the hire skis on that bit of slope, how on earth are the students supposed to?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gaza wrote:
Hillend (dryslope) I've grown to dislike it. I know I never ski as well there as I do on the mountain or in a snowdome.


Go for the slope you are more comfortable on, the course is stressful enough without you thinking you don't "like" the surface...
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@Gaza, I did a Tel L1 at Hillend a while back...much prefer being outside.
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skiinghamster wrote:
Just a thought (unrelated to your actual question) - if you as a competant skier can't ski the hire skis on that bit of slope, how on earth are the students supposed to?


I can ski it slowly/normally without any issue. It is when pushing hard that it becomes tricky. It is relatively steep and narrow. Trainees are only taken up there when they have reached a suitable level. Even then it is normally carnage when the groups make their first foray to the top. There is a newer, less steep, section to the left of the chairlift that instructors favour. It gives the benefit of a longer run without the steepness of The Face.

For those not familiar with Hillend see the badly shot video on the link below. I was too busy looking up the hill and not through the viewfinder so wasn't keeping up!

Quite a few of the kids did the same as my son did on the first race; slip past the 5th gate. Some slipped even further past it than he did and wrecked their time completely. It cost him about 3 seconds as his second run was that amount faster. He only started skiing 27 months ago and has only been doing race training for a few months so his technique isn't quite there yet. However, he loves doing it and enjoys getting kitted up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9f8y7n7aiskc8h/Oscar%20LSRA%20Twin%20Peaks.mp4?dl=0 Very Happy Very Happy
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@ski, did you use your skis or Hillend's?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Gaza, the face is indeed pretty hard to get grip on, especially for adults, but is good training ground for steeps skills. I'd be surprised if much of the L1 is done up there.

Hopefully the course will go well at whichever venue you choose. In summer I think I'd prefer to be on snow at Braehead, while in winter it's a closer call as it is nice being outdoors at Hillend. That may sound the wrong way round !
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Thanks @balernoStu, you've seen me slip down there on my backside so you know exactly what I'm like. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I'll catch-up with you on Sunday at Braehead about a possible pre-course session and also about Oscar.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Gaza, Yes... used my own skis..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My new Head Magnums arrived yesterday so I'm going to give them a run tonight at Braehead. I may give them a run at Hillend next Saturday before making my final decision. I will make sure they are waxed with either Polar X or GX before venturing on to the latter.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Gaza, all the very best with it, I agree with @kitenski'spost above, just go for the surface you are happier on and thus remove one source of stress Smile
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Gaza wrote:
My new Head Magnums arrived yesterday so I'm going to give them a run tonight at Braehead..


Oh what a bittersweet experience. Took the Magnums out for a run on Friday night. They were superb. I felt they flattered my ability. Today (Saturday ) I took them out again as Braehead gave me a very good deal to accompany my son on the slope for the races today.

I was really getting in to the swing of things when I came to the end of a run and as I turned to head to the tow there was a sickening crunch and I came to a near halt. There was nothing obvious but when I got to the top of the tow I took my ski off and saw a long, deep scratch ending in a deep gouge about an inch long. I had a range of emotions. Anger being one of them. I skied down and told the liftie what had occurred and we both looked for the cause. It was easy to spot. Just covered by snow was a piece of metal and wood that had been exposed by the plastic matting being missing.

They immediately roped the area off and called the manager. He told me to take the ski to Ellis Brigham and they would pay for the repair. Repairing a brand new ski hurts but there was little other option.

I immediately went along to EB and showed them the damage. They were very good. They took the ski in and said to come back later. They gave me their 170cm demo Titans to use while they did the repair. This was very helpful as it allowed me to test the other option I considered.

I liked the Titans and, if the trutb be told, couldn't really tell much difference. I think the Titans were slightly better in the crud at the edges of the slope.

After the racing had finished I went back to EB and collected the sky. They seemed to have made a good job of the repair but have recommended a full base grind. They didn't want to do one ski only and said I'd need to bring the other in. However, I wouldn't have got them back until next week and as I live about 70 miles away it wasn't going to work.
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@Gaza, A mate of mine has just launched a ski academy with Basi based at Zauchensee in Austria. I'm not sure whether they have marketed it yet but there may be some convenient on-snow dates for you??
www.skiacademyaustria.com
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@Gaza, skis are meant to be used. Damaging the front part of the top sheet I find more upsetting.

Anyway back on topic - ebay yourself a cheap pair of used cheater slalom skis and use the for your assessment on Hillend.

sorted.
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Quote:

but have recommended a full base grind.


It's a bummer gouging new skis indoors but it's only ptex and once patched will make 0 difference to how the skis perform or their life expectancy, I would ask why they advise a full grind, the repair should be flat & even and as they are new skis they will just have been ground flat, grinding them this soon in their life would annoy me and it terribly wasteful for just a patch (normally anyway)
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After a couple of slides today it was virtually impossible to see the repair. @balernoStu had a quick look and confirmed that a base grind would not be necessary.
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@Gaza, all good then, I'd have been very skeptical that a base grind was needed!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Rule 5 has been enforced. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Course booked for Hillend starting 3rd August. The next Braehead course with space was not until December so that influenced my decision. Another plus for Hillend is my son is booked in to Race Camp that week so it helps with summer childcare/logistics.

I've scoured ebay and there isn't much available at this time of the year so over the next coupe of weeks I'll try my Fischer's and Magnums and see what work best.
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@Gaza, Well done snowHead Hillend (whilst not being snow) is a great place to spend a week. At the top of the tow you can (almost) be in the mountains ! Just an FYI tho' ---- heat and base repairs do not go too well together.... but.... assuming it's just a gouge in the base -- then it can easily be redone....and application of a very very hard wax (Polar-X or CH4) will protect the bases anyway. It's worth remembering that a lot of your ski time on the L1 is going to be snowploughs, plough parrallels and basic (slow) stuff like that so you are very unlikely to do further damage. Keep an eye on EBAY --- anything reasonably recent, and piste orientated will be fine, if your son races then you already know how to sharpen edges and wax bases The Face is a nice challenge too --- although we tele'd it Toofy Grin
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@Gaza, good luck, let us know how you get on during the week if you can!
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@Gaza, good luck with it Very Happy
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Glad you stuck with Hillend they need the business ! BIL instructs there part time.

Do you have a diamond tool in which case you could do a quick and dirty edge sharpen on some rentals
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Took my Fischers up to Hillend today. Last night I gave the a liberal coating of Dry Slope Wax. It did the trick but it seemed a bit strange not scraping it once applied. I think I need to practise application a bit more as I could not get it bump and ripple free. I did give it a brush with a brass brush followed by horsehair but is wa still a bit mottled.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The wax you mention is good for dry slopes and you are right not to scrape it, it's too hard and brittle. To get a smoother finish try a slow final pass of the iron tip to tail, I use this wax and you can normally get a nice smooth coat which doesn't need brushing. If the finish is mottled it's possible you have applied it over zardoz?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ski wrote:
@Gaza, I did a Tel L1 at Hillend a while back...much prefer being outside.


^ This.
Much of a L1 is spent on the nursery slope - better being outside that under neon lights for 5 days ?
Hillend in a good long slope, so in some ways it is better than a snow dome ?

Just ordered some Polar GX wax.
Amazingly had never heard of it - cheers for the tip.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
sledger wrote:
If the finish is mottled it's possible you have applied it over zardoz?


Had to Google Zardox. Blush Never used it.

Did my Magnums yesterday with Polar X as I've ran out of the 4MATT stuff and I managed to get that smooth and mottle free. The same applied to my sons Salomon X-Race but when I did his Atomic's and my Fischer's I could not get the same smooth finish. Puzzled Puzzled My Fishers really need a proper service as they were well scraped in La Plagne this year.
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Gaza wrote:
Took my Fischers up to Hillend today. Last night I gave the a liberal coating of Dry Slope Wax. It did the trick but it seemed a bit strange not scraping it once applied. I think I need to practise application a bit more as I could not get it bump and ripple free. I did give it a brush with a brass brush followed by horsehair but is wa still a bit mottled.


How did you get on using these instead of rental skis? One advantage would be knowing what skis you will be using, instead of trying to get a pair from rental that you may have got on with previously.
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They were fine @balernoStu. I even managed to push a bit harder on The Face without sliding down on my backside. Very Happy Very Happy However, I did struggle a bit trying to tackle the Super Racers slalom course though! All Mountain skis with a 17m radius are not the best for that. Going too fast meant I kept missing the last couple of gates. Oscar found it very assuming Toofy Grin Toofy Grin I'll be there again this Saturday so will try my Magnums and make a decision on which ones to use after that.

I been WATCHING THESE on ebay as they may fit the description of 'cheater slalom skis' but I'm balking at spending another £150 on something I might not use much. The P&P costs are high.
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Gaza, If you are serious about skiing slalom on plastic then look at something a lot shorter than 175cm.
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rjs wrote:
Gaza, If you are serious about skiing slalom on plastic then look at something a lot shorter than 175cm.


I am most definitely NOT serious about skiing slalom on plastic. Smile Smile Hillend has a course set-up on a Saturday morning for the kids race club and I gave it a go.

I'm looking for a pair of good skis to do my L1 on rather than risk my Magnums and Motive 86s on the Dendix. The hire skis are very poor and I definitely don't want to/won't use them.
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Gaza, Ok but they are not really "cheater slalom skis" if they have a larger sidecut radius than proper race ones.

The difference for me between snow and dryslope is the lack of grip on dendix, I can spot a dryslope racer by them avoiding getting big edge angles.
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@rjs, as a plastic slope ski for @Gaza's requirements I'd have thought the ones he has suggested could work quite well?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I have the option of purchasing a pair of Head Icon TT 60.0 at a very good price. They are 177. Radius:15. Sidecut: 117/68/101. Any thoughts on these?
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The course is over and the result? I passed. Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin

I had a very enjoyable week at Hillend. Despite gloomy forecasts the weather on the whole was kind to us. In fact, most days it was getting a bit too warm. There had been such a high demand that a second group was added so there were two courses running simultaneously. Most of the other participants were in the 16-20 age group and at 49 years, 10 months and 30 days I was the oldest by far. My group had 6 racers with 2 of them being Scottish National squad members. They were a great bunch and displayed a level of maturity beyond their years. We gelled well as a group and had a lot of fun. This was undoubtedly aided by the course tutor who adopted a very relaxed attitude that allowed us all to relax and concentrate on our skiing.

I had had 2 x 2 hours sessions with @balernoStu on the preceding two Saturdays and they proved invaluable. He gave me some excellent pointers as to what to expect and I felt they really gave me a good grounding in what would be expected. When I started skiing at Hillend 38 years ago skiing style was very different. In the intervening years I haven't had much in the way of lessons so I had to "unlearn" some deeply ingrained bad habits. If anyone is considering doing a L1 I would strongly recommend a few prep sessions either 1-2-1 or as part of a group. If you are in Central Scotland I definitely recommend you PM @balernoStu.

I learned a lot about my skiing during the week. Lots of old bad habits were (almost) eradicated. I now know what I have to do to improve and I’m determined to build on what I have learned.

I now have to find a way of doing my 35 hours. Hillend do have a programme for shadowing but my limited availability could make it a drawn out process. I spend 3 days/2 nights a week in Essex so I’ll also try Brentwood but it will be a longshot to expect then to be running lessons that I can shadow on a Tuesday and Wednesday evening.

The Icon Head TT 60s I bought performed fine. Most of the rest of the course participants were on Hillend’s rentals but it didn’t seem to be too much of a hindrance. At 177cm mine were the longest on the course and if I had my time again I’d go around 10 cm shorter.

I had said at the outset that I was only interested in my L1 but I now have a niggling desire to do my L2. Someone please stop me. Razz Razz Razz Razz
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@Gaza, no idea where in Essex you are based when you are there, but Welwyn and Hemel aren't too far.
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