I'm very sad about this. I like the SCGB and especially the leading/ reaping. I'm quite happy to ski off piste, climb, trek etc with amateurs and be shown around by a seasonaire for that matter. I think the French Courts are wrong. The service has been provided on a volunteer basis.
But i'm not that happy with the solution either. I'm not happy my subs are being used to place Ambassadors in so many places/ anywhere at all. THere is no reason to have them- the club could dust set arranged meeting times / places for people who want to organise themselves to meet. Probably better to choose your own skiing companions than be grouped by someone else. I think the seasonaire solution is asking for trouble and exposes the seasonaire to far too much risk.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The SCGB is a runaway gravy train. It has no driver, but it's full of passengers demanding free rides. Whether they are are ambassadors, reps, leaders ... or have no responsibility at all ... does not matter to them. They want their rides paid for ... and a hotel and liftpass at the other end of the line ... and that's what they'll get.
It's only appropriate that the gravy trainers and trainees should now jump countries and do their course at the greatest ski resort in the world. Because the whole thing is out of control.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If Snowheads are so keen to stay on the right side of the law, are they sure of the legality of lifting other people's posts from the Ski Club website and re-posting them here, without the permission of the original poster and for the purpose of stirring up trouble?
Showing someone how to use a piece of ski safety kit is not ski instruction any more than showing someone how to put on a life jacket is teaching them how to sail or showing them how to put armbands on is teaching them to swim.
Complaining about groups of friends or like-minded people skiing together smacks of someone who has no friends to ski with (and is not a good way to make or keep friends).
@marcianash, nice troll. It would have been really good if you'd managed to make the stirring just marginally less obvious. No-one is ever going to rise to that post.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Just a thought if the SCGB don't like their forum being read by the great unwashed why not make it "Members Only"?
All this does mean that the pistes and particularly the lifts will be a bit quieter during those weeks, after seeing candidates crashing into other skiiers in an open area some distance from the piste, and being stuck on a lift with others braying about the relative wealth and skiing ability (or otherwise) of their friends and family, I can't say we'll miss them next season, even if Tignes will.
What's 'braying'?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Goldsmith wrote:
The SCGB is a runaway gravy train. It has no driver, but it's full of passengers demanding free rides. Whether they are are ambassadors, reps, leaders ... or have no responsibility at all ... does not matter to them. They want their rides paid for ... and a hotel and liftpass at the other end of the line ... and that's what they'll get.
It's only appropriate that the gravy trainers and trainees should now jump countries and do their course at the greatest ski resort in the world. Because the whole thing is out of control.
You're something of an expert on gravy trains, having tried to climb aboard many yourself. You're still the only snowhead to ever request payment for posting for example.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Gerry wrote:
What's 'braying'?
Something associated with the Ski Club of Great Brayin', apparently.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
David Goldsmith wrote:
Gerry wrote:
What's 'braying'?
Something associated with the Ski Club of Great Brayin', apparently.
You'd know a bit about braying too, I'd wager, what with being spoilt little rich boy and all that.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Gerry wrote:
spoilt little rich boy
Unconvincing. I was the one who went and taught budget-driven schoolkids to ski on Cairngorm. You're the one who schmoozes and fawns for members of the Ski Club of Great Brayin', 'only in the top resorts', me dear.
Up the ruling classes!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
David Goldsmith wrote:
Gerry wrote:
spoilt little rich boy
Unconvincing. I was the one who went and taught budget-driven schoolkids to ski on Cairngorm. You're the one who schmoozes and fawns for members of the Ski Club of Great Brayin', 'only in the top resorts', me dear.
Up the ruling classes!
I don't fawn. Mostly very hardworking and nice people on scgb trips. I must inform the electrician who was on my last trip that he's in the ruling classes. Your portrayal of all the members as being in a class above and looking down on average skiers is
Not far removed from racism. Are there no depths to which you won't plunge?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Gerry wrote:
I don't fawn.
OK. Do you schmooze?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Gerry wrote:
Your portrayal of all the members as being in a class above and looking down on average skiers is Not far removed from racism.
Speciesism perhaps, but not racism. David Icke said so
You're something of an expert on gravy trains, having tried to climb aboard many yourself. You're still the only snowhead to ever request payment for posting for example.
You can't climb aboard a gravy train that doesn't exist. The SCGB train very definitely exists, though clearly it won't be stopping in Tignes this year
PS - Goldsmith isn't the only one to request it, though he might have been the only one who genuinely throught they might get it
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Mistress Panda wrote:
@marcianash, nice troll. It would have been really good if you'd managed to make the stirring just marginally less obvious. No-one is ever going to rise to that post.
You did
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 16-05-15 12:56; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@moffatross, More Shy Tories
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mistress Panda wrote:
Gerry wrote:
You're something of an expert on gravy trains, having tried to climb aboard many yourself. You're still the only snowhead to ever request payment for posting for example.
You can't climb aboard a gravy train that doesn't exist. The SCGB train very definitely exists, though clearly it won't be stopping in Tignes this year
The snowHeads gravy train existed in David's mind. The expert witness gravy plane, however, was real and whisked David off on an all expenses paid, plus an appearance fee, trip to the high court in Sidney. David claims, amongst other things, to be an expert in the field of 'personal injury and fatal accident causes'.
See first paragraph under Joanna Knott's credentials. The case was, in fact, settled in the Sydney Supreme Court on the first day - I was therefore not called to the witness box. Since I was in transit - at Singapore Airport - my journey to Australia continued.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 16-05-15 9:27; edited 1 time in total
@laundryman, I'd like to think you're correct, but these two seem to use otherwise interesting threads as a platform to continue their ongoing vendetta........
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
KenX wrote:
are people interested in what I originally posted or are they drawn in by the DG/GA slanging match
Haha ! Now I'm wondering whether the election pollsters might be better wearing those specialist sunglasses when they do their interviews.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@David Goldsmith, sadly not, The Hotel Post used to be one of the great Alpine institutions, still pretty damn good, in fact my daughter has worked there over the past 5 or so years.....
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Too much open discussion on a public forum in my view. There are lots of "arrangements" in life which work very well but might not stand up to close scrutiny vis a vis law and regulations, a "loose" arrangement which is not enshrined in the written word is much less risky. Good luck to the seasonnaires who are willing to ski with "orphan" English in the French resorts but they would be wise not to "advertise" their service nor any connection with the SCGB even if the Club has not sanctioned the arrangement on social media.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FFIRMIN wrote:
Too much open discussion on a public forum in my view.
I quite agree. Mum's the word. Best if hairy SCGB-organised activities go on in secret.
FFIRMIN wrote:
There are lots of "arrangements" in life which work very well but might not stand up to close scrutiny vis a vis law and regulations, a "loose" arrangement which is not enshrined in the written word is much less risky.
If the "loose arrangement" has been arranged by a SCGB ambassador then it is not loose.
FFIRMIN wrote:
"orphan" English.
Is Great Britain now defined as "England"? Is a SCGB member denied skiing with an SCGB rep now classed as an "orphan" (child abandoned by parents, or surviving deceased parents?)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
David Goldsmith wrote:
Is Great Britain now defined as "England"?
Surely no-one is suggesting that the SCGB is really the Ski Club of England?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alastair Pink wrote:
David Goldsmith wrote:
Is Great Britain now defined as "England"?
Surely no-one is suggesting that the SCGB is really the Ski Club of England?
My dad was a Scot, so I'm half Scottish and very proud of it. Oddly, the only country in which I've received racial abuse is Scotland.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Yes, very "oddly" if the person who you say abused you was also 'white British' in terms of ethnicity. Are you sure this was "racial abuse"?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Goldsmith wrote:
Yes, very "oddly" if the person who you say abused you was also 'white British' in terms of ethnicity. Are you sure this was "racial abuse"?
Are you saying it's legal for a Scottish person to verbally abuse an English person simply because they are English?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Just a thought if the SCGB don't like their forum being read by the great unwashed why not make it "Members Only"?
I don't think anyone has objected to the SCGB forum being read by non members (& I haven't noticed anyone but you referring to non members as unwashed). My objection is to comments being lifted from the Club website and re-posted here without the permission of the original poster and for the purpose of stirring up trouble for the SCGB. Apparently many others have also complained so perhaps it will be made members only or, at least, offenders' access to the Club website will be blocked. Their consistently negative contributions won't be missed.
Membership of the Ski Club of Great Britain is entirely voluntary. I am at a loss to understand why those who don't like it don't stay away and mind their own.
PS I just noticed your winky icon so perhaps yours was a genuine (& helpful) suggestion rather than a criticism of the Club.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 17-05-15 9:49; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Braying has a few meanings, one of which is: The actions when defecating.
Rather apt.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
dode wrote:
Braying has a few meanings, one of which is: The actions when defecating.
Rather apt.
So someone who is heard to 'bray' would be considered to be annoyingly English? Just trying to understand why 'braying' is something to be looked down on and ridiculed?
The Ski Club GB position in France is of interest to many because if gyrating around the law as French authorities currently apply them cause all largish social groups of Brits ( even those where you don't have to pay a hefty sub after 1 day) to be under suspicion then we've all got problems.
Secondly do you really think being a seasonaire and not a SCGB jacket will prevent manslaughter charges when a group you are "facilitating" or "empowering" or whatever the non leading verb you choose to adopt has a tragic incident?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This is nothing to do with "stirring up trouble for the Ski Club", marcianash. It's about the SCGB stirring up trouble for itself, as it has done so many times in relation to its leadership policies and practices. Responsible discussion about this subject, involving professionals and experts, led to the SCGB shutting its forum to non-members (for the ensuing 9 years) in February 2004. If you feel the Club should isolate itself (again) from public commonsense and professional expertise, so be it.
... gave an account of SCGB members (and maybe non-members) being grouped by the Club, in ways which should surely cause even more concern about the liabilities involved. You say in that posting "It seems to need a good supply of seasonaires and regulars who are SC members (or at least SC supporters), who know the area well and are willing to take on a leadership role."
Has SCGB HQ approved "seasonaires" taking on a "leadership role"?
What happens if there's a serious incident (maybe an avalanche) involving a SCGB group led by a seasonaire? Who carries responsibility?
Membership of the Ski Club of Great Britain is entirely voluntary. I am at a loss to understand why those who don't like it don't stay away and mind their own.
Quite so. However I'm equally baffled why a Director of the SCGB is choosing to pursue a vendetta across multiple SH threads. How can that possibly present the SCGB in a positive light? Or have I misunderstood?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Goldsmith wrote:
This is nothing to do with "stirring up trouble for the Ski Club", marcianash. It's about the SCGB stirring up trouble for itself, as it has done so many times in relation to its leadership policies and practices. Responsible discussion about this subject, involving professionals and experts, led to the SCGB shutting its forum to non-members (for the ensuing 9 years) in February 2004. If you feel the Club should isolate itself (again) from public commonsense and professional expertise, so be it.
... gave an account of SCGB members (and maybe non-members) being grouped by the Club, in ways which should surely cause even more concern about the liabilities involved. You say in that posting "It seems to need a good supply of seasonaires and regulars who are SC members (or at least SC supporters), who know the area well and are willing to take on a leadership role."
Has SCGB HQ approved "seasonaires" taking on a "leadership role"?
What happens if there's a serious incident (maybe an avalanche) involving a SCGB group led by a seasonaire? Who carries responsibility?
Ski Club HQ has no involvement in this. it's just members doing what snowHeads do on their bashes and linking up people into compatible groups. If you are going to be unbiased and consistent (some hope!) you will need to offer similar advice to snowHeads management and Bash attendees.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@David Goldsmith,
You are being misleadingly selective, David, and deliberately misrepresenting the Club. The online discussion from which you have quoted was about SCGB members in Val d'Isere this season. I wasn't there but was commenting favourably on what I thought I had understood from the posts of people who were there. One of them corrected my comment, pointing out that seasonaires were NOT leading groups (and that it was potentially dangerous to suggest that they were). You can't have missed that correction; you just chose to ignore it. Unfortunately I was unable to edit my own post to remove what I had been told was wrong.
Some seasonaires might be taking a risk. But that is up to them, not you.
Your behaviour reminds me of a spiteful child whose mean or unpleasant behaviour towards other children has resulted in him having no one to play with. So he tries to spoil their games. If you do not like the SCGB just stay away from it, please.
Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 17-05-15 10:16; edited 1 time in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
dogwatch wrote:
marcianash wrote:
Membership of the Ski Club of Great Britain is entirely voluntary. I am at a loss to understand why those who don't like it don't stay away and mind their own.
Quite so. However I'm equally baffled why a Director of the SCGB is choosing to pursue a vendetta across multiple SH threads. How can that possibly present the SCGB in a positive light? Or have I misunderstood?
Just telling the truth about David Goldsmith. Use the ignore feature if it causes you a problem.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 17-05-15 10:32; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
marcianash wrote:
@David Goldsmith,
You are being misleadingly selective, David, and deliberately misrepresenting the Ski Club. The online discussion from which you have quoted was about Ski Club members in Val d'Isere this season. I wasn't there but was commenting favourably on what I thought I had understood from the posts of people who were there. One of them corrected my comment, pointing out that seasonaires were NOT leading groups (and that it was potentially dangerous to suggest that they were). You can't have missed that correction; you just chose to ignore it. Unfortunately I was unable to edit my own post to remove what I had been told was wrong.
Exactly:
Lying by omission, otherwise known as exclusionary detailing, is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
