Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Taking children out of school....

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
JoyZipper wrote:
zikomo wrote:
@JoyZipper,

That is a bit harsh. And incorrect - some people do indeed have a right to take children out of school for a family holiday. There are exemptions, for example parents in the armed services (in some circumstances) and actually quite a few others.

I do not believe you value education more than me, or the others here who regularly take their children out of school for a ski holiday. In my opinion, based on researching the issue and establishing the facts, it has no impact at all on their educational outcome.

On what is your opinion based? What facts and/or research can you point to? I would genuinely like to know.

And for the record I can well afford to take ski holidays at any time, and I am pretty much in charge of my own agenda. There are other reasons than cost and time that people do this, which you would do well to consider.


My opinion is based on the people who are in charge of my children's education - they are far more knowledgeable on this subject matter than I am.

You are more than welcome to your own opinion.

If you can afford it then just go away during the school holidays and then your child has all of the classroom learning AND the important extracurricular learning too. It seems like a win/win siuation to me. If you can't take the time off then don't go - this may come as a shock but the world doesn't revolve around you.


Not sure why the pejorative "the world doesn't revolve around you" statement, there is absolutely no need to be unpleasant to me or anyone else on this subject.

I simply asked what your opinion was based on, and I am still genuinely interested to hear any evidence at all that taking otherwise well brought up children out of school for a week damages their education. I really mean it, I would really like to see any such evidence.

It is not an opinion that I place a very high value on education - it is a fact. I am sure you do too and I would never suggest otherwise.

I simply choose to not accept everything that is said to me in all circumstances, but to research the facts and make my own judgement (as far as possible). Of course we should listen to professionals and take their opinions seriously, but that does not mean we should follow them blindly. Not least as, especially in education, there are a great many differing and opposing opinions and theories. One example in the Scandinavian model of delaying formal teaching until around 9/10 years old - something which seems odd to us but has been proven to have a positive effect.I certainly know teachers who are more than happy to have my kids miss a week of school to enjoy and ski holiday. Especially when they are not locked in to an exam cycle where I would probably make a different choice myself anyway.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
JoyZipper wrote:
zikomo wrote:
@swiftoid,

As opposed to sending them to the local school, just hoping for the best, taking as read anything that the government suggests must be the best for THEIR children,and criticising those who choose to take responsibility for finding out how best to get the best education for their children.


That's a very broad brush and I'm not quite sure who it's aimed at. It can't be me as I'm in the same boat as you with my schooling. rolling eyes

When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


It was not aimed at you.

And if being selfish is doing what I think is best for my children then I think most parents are selfish (and quite rightly!). The ONLY reason I think anyone should pass judgement on a parent taking kids on a ski holiday during term time is IF it causes disruption to other children's education. My school assures me that this is not the case, but I can see that it might be in some very limited circumstances. Why on earth would you even start to think of someone as selfish because they make a different choice from you that does not at all effect you in any way?
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The term "the world doesn't revolve around you" was used as that is the impression that you are giving out (to me anyway).

Taking it to the nth degree, if everyone had your attiture and decided to take their children out of school the same two weeks of term there would be chaos. Luckily most people are willing to stand by the rules and this never happens.

Do you "choose to accept" that by NOT taking your children out of school you are not harming their education ? I am and that is why I don't do it.
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@JoyZipper,

Oh, I offer no excuses. I don't think I have to, it is my judgement to take and I do not need to justify it. But neither should I be lambasted for it especially when there is no factual basis for the criticism. The extent of it seems to be either the government says so (and of course they are always 100% right, never change the approach, and all parties always agree on the same thing) or professional educators say so (and of course there are no differing opinions in that profession either!).

As in everything, you take on board the professional advise and the facts then make your own judgement. You do exactly that and choose to not take your children out of school as a result, and I respect your decision. I would like to see the same respect given to those who analyse the issue and come to a different conclusion.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 8-02-16 12:29; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
JoyZipper wrote:
zikomo wrote:
@JoyZipper,

That is a bit harsh. And incorrect - some people do indeed have a right to take children out of school for a family holiday. There are exemptions, for example parents in the armed services (in some circumstances) and actually quite a few others.

I do not believe you value education more than me, or the others here who regularly take their children out of school for a ski holiday. In my opinion, based on researching the issue and establishing the facts, it has no impact at all on their educational outcome.

On what is your opinion based? What facts and/or research can you point to? I would genuinely like to know.

And for the record I can well afford to take ski holidays at any time, and I am pretty much in charge of my own agenda. There are other reasons than cost and time that people do this, which you would do well to consider.


My opinion is based on the people who are in charge of my children's education - they are far more knowledgeable on this subject matter than I am.

You are more than welcome to your own opinion.

If you can afford it then just go away during the school holidays and then your child has all of the classroom learning AND the important extracurricular learning too. It seems like a win/win siuation to me. If you can't take the time off then don't go - this may come as a shock but the world doesn't revolve around you.


As is my experience of firstly working on a school site for a number of years and working closely with the staff. Later from working with staff on school trips and many years working with the school on PTA. Talking to staff who do not agree with how this act works who would rather see it more in the background as a final sanction than full on in there face. Who would rather talk to parents and try and work with them, rather than just say no and then they still go away and potentially get fined causing animosity at least or not go away and the family feel resentment to the school and system.

We can keep going round and round on this but the crux is attitude and if this causes any breakdown between parent/child and school then it is not right we should be looking at solutions that encourage better co-operation and support between parents and school.
Give schools the right to authorise time off but if they turn down a request there are clear guidelines as to why and what will happen. Granting time can be positive for the school it is rewarding good attendance, behaviour and attitude. It is saying work with us and we will work with you. That those who do not can not have access to these benefits.
It comes down to attitude as I said do we want this to be a big negative or turn it round to be a positive that is used to further parent teacher co-operation to encourage the kids to work hard, to not be disruptive.

If you think this is the wrong way to view this look at the things they do with young offenders. Trips to theme parks mac d's etc they use these nice things as rewards for good behaviour etc and remove them if the offender is not working/trying hard to improve.
So why should this gov implemented philosophy only be for those who have caused trouble why can it not be for those who always strive to achieve to be good.
My kids school has an award each year for a child who sorry to say has been a scum bag and has improved, it is quite a bit of money for a kid and we know on one occasion the winner was and still was a scumbag who used the system just to get the money. This person now out of school is still very undesirable always in trouble with the police.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
JoyZipper wrote:
The term "the world doesn't revolve around you" was used as that is the impression that you are giving out (to me anyway).

Taking it to the nth degree, if everyone had your attiture and decided to take their children out of school the same two weeks of term there would be chaos. Luckily most people are willing to stand by the rules and this never happens.

Do you "choose to accept" that by NOT taking your children out of school you are not harming their education ? I am and that is why I don't do it.


Of course I do not think the world revolves around me, there is nothing I have said that gives that impression. It was just an unpleasant thing to say.

I stand by my question - why would you even start to think of criticising someone for making a different choice than you do, if that choice does not effect you in any way. I would of course consider any potential disruption to others as part of my decision, because I am not selfish and I do not think the world revolves around me. That was not your point, you chose to criticise anyone who takes their children on holiday during term time because it is bad for their education. An assertion that has not been evidenced, it is an opinion and you are well entitled to it and so are others entitled to their opinion.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
JoyZipper wrote:


When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


All black and white with you isn't it.

While it's not ideal taking kids out of school, it's not usually the end of the world. My parents took me out of school to go skiing (thanks dad!) and yet I still managed to scrape a 1st class honours degree and a masters. So I don't think missing the odd week of school here and there to do something interesting was of such paramount importance to my education. Our choice at the moment is to take our daughter out of school for a couple of weeks or not go skiing at all. You would say tough, don't go skiing then. But I value our family life more than that! Do you honestly think that it's going to make the difference between passing or failing her GCSEs in 10 years time? Maybe you do, but I certainly don't.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@zikomo,
Quote:

I simply asked what your opinion was based on, and I am still genuinely interested to hear any evidence at all that taking otherwise well brought up children out of school for a week damages their education. I really mean it, I would really like to see any such evidence.

Well, you could start with the Taylor Report.

I think much of this argument boils down to problem of discretion and one-rule-for-all. I imagine that behind closed doors many teachers, educational experts and Government ministers would agree that in many cases an intelligent, industrious, well-behaved child from a supportive family, with an otherwise excellent attendance record is unlikely to come to much educational harm by the very occasional week off. However, it became increasingly clear in recent years that teachers were unable to say 'yes' to these children, but say 'no' to others. The 10 days 'allowance' became a right and was used and abused by many. To return to the daft speed limit analogy it would be like police publicly announcing that even though the speed limit was 70 all motorists were allowed to travel at 80. In a perfect world it would be great if the police could continuously assess the driver's ability, the vehicle, the road and traffic conditions and say "OK, you can go 90mph, but that other chap over there is only allowed to go at 50mph".
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:


When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


All black and white with you isn't it. My wife does say this about me an all aspects of life !

While it's not ideal taking kids out of school, it's not usually the end of the world. Neither is a child shoplifting/swearing/smoking, but I wouldn't condone those either.

My parents took me out of school to go skiing (thanks dad!) and yet I still managed to scrape a 1st class honours degree and a masters. So I don't think missing the odd week of school here and there to do something interesting was of such paramount importance to my education. Our choice at the moment is to take our daughter out of school for a couple of weeks or not go skiing at all. You would say tough, don't go skiing then. I would.

But I value our family life more than that! But you still have lots of time when they're on school holidays to spend valuable family time together - off the top of my head around 13/14 weeks per year. That's why I say that there is always an excuse.

Do you honestly think that it's going to make the difference between passing or failing her GCSEs in 10 years time? Maybe you do, but I certainly don't. Possibly - it's one of many intangible factors which make up the bigger picture.

snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
zikomo wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:
The term "the world doesn't revolve around you" was used as that is the impression that you are giving out (to me anyway).

Taking it to the nth degree, if everyone had your attiture and decided to take their children out of school the same two weeks of term there would be chaos. Luckily most people are willing to stand by the rules and this never happens.

Do you "choose to accept" that by NOT taking your children out of school you are not harming their education ? I am and that is why I don't do it.


Of course I do not think the world revolves around me, there is nothing I have said that gives that impression (in your opinion). It was just an unpleasant thing to say. I apologise in your are offended by my vaguely indignant remark.

I stand by my question - why would you even start to think of criticising someone for making a different choice than you do, if that choice does not effect you in any way. I would of course consider any potential disruption to others as part of my decision, because I am not selfish and I do not think the world revolves around me. That was not your point, you chose to criticise anyone who takes their children on holiday during term time because it is bad for their education. In my opinion, yes it is. An assertion that has not been evidenced, it is an opinion and you are well entitled to it and so are others entitled to their opinion. As mentioned before, I am more than happy to go with the opinion of the School Governers. They are more of an expert in education than I will ever be.
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:


When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


All black and white with you isn't it.

While it's not ideal taking kids out of school, it's not usually the end of the world. My parents took me out of school to go skiing (thanks dad!) and yet I still managed to scrape a 1st class honours degree and a masters. And my Grandmother smoked 100 a day and lived until she was 110 - that is a poor argument. I assume that the use of the word scrape was used in jest, but if it wasn't then you may have sailed through your degree if you had been at school all of the time. So I don't think missing the odd week of school here and there to do something interesting was of such paramount importance to my education. Our choice at the moment is to take our daughter out of school for a couple of weeks or not go skiing at all. You would say tough, don't go skiing then. But I value our family life more than that! Do you honestly think that it's going to make the difference between passing or failing her GCSEs in 10 years time? Maybe you do, but I certainly don't.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Well, you could start with the Taylor Report.


Ah yes the one which says:

Quote:
That changes are made to the pupil registration regulations to strengthen the rules
on term time holidays. While head teachers should continue to have discretion,
holidays in term time should be the exception rather than the rule.

That the Government changes the focus, when talking about attendance, away
from unauthorised and authorised absence, towards making overall absence and
persistent absence the headline figures to discuss publicly.


The report very much talks about strengthening the existing rules. Yes it recognises that persistent absence is damaging and suggests ways to tackle persistent absence, it is not aimed (to my reading of the report) at the odd few days here and there for kids who have a good level.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@JoyZipper,

You don't get it do you? No-one is passing judgement on you, but you are passing judgement on others. You think taking kids out of school in term time is bad for their education, fair point and an opinion that I can understand even if I do't agree with it. BUT you also think parents who do it are selfish, parents who do it make nothing but excuses, and in general value education less than you do, and that anyone who disagrees with you is completely wrong is all ways and certainly cannot have any facts that challenge your own opinion. This judgemental and actually suggests you think you are somewhat more important, and certainly your opinion is, than the rest of the posters here. You aren't, and neither are your opinions.

I like that you take the opinion of your School Governers seriously, but they will almost certainly NOT be experts in education as in general schools have a balanced board with lots of different backgrounds within it. I am sure your school is no different and most governors will not have an educational background. Thinking about it, this suggests you have not actually engaged with them very much.....it is just a nice term (get it? lol) to throw around.

I think it would be nice if we could all have a debate without personal insult, disrespect, opinions dressed up as fact, selective hearing and most importantly NOT passing judgement on those who have a different opinion. But as you yourself say....we can't have everything we want.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The rules about unauthorised absence from school are government rules (aka laws) though they are being intepreted slightly differently by different LEAs. Some allow more unauthorised absence than others before issuing Penalty Notices. Most do not issue a PN for 10 sessions (ie a week's) absence.

These rules have been foisted on schools just like many others, remarkably few of them evidence-based. Teachers are reeling under the constant bombardment of new curricula, new exam systems, etc etc. They have to stick to the rules about unauthorised absence but many teachers don't agree with them.

It is ironic that much of this has been done by a government which supposedly believes in less state interference......

There are serious truancy problems in many schools. Some kids hardly ever turn up. A child with an otherwise good attendance record who misses a week's school for a ski holiday or (like my 11 year old granddaughter last week) tonsilitis, is not going to come to any harm.

I regularly took my kids out of school for ski holidays in early January. Partly to save money, partly because of a disinclination to spend large chunks of time in lift queues, or on dangerously crowded pistes. If I could only ski at half term I'd take up another hobby.

I still would, with the current rules, and take my chances with Penalty Notices.

But what I can't condone, ever, is teaching children that because it's "morally right" to take a ski holiday in January it's "morally right" to lie about it and pretend to have been ill. That sucks. Evil or Very Mad
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Boris wrote:
Quote:

Well, you could start with the Taylor Report.


Ah yes the one which says:

Quote:
That changes are made to the pupil registration regulations to strengthen the rules
on term time holidays. While head teachers should continue to have discretion,
holidays in term time should be the exception rather than the rule.

That the Government changes the focus, when talking about attendance, away
from unauthorised and authorised absence, towards making overall absence and
persistent absence the headline figures to discuss publicly.


The report very much talks about strengthening the existing rules. Yes it recognises that persistent absence is damaging and suggests ways to tackle persistent absence, it is not aimed (to my reading of the report) at the odd few days here and there for kids who have a good level.


Be careful....it seems actually knowing the facts is a reason to be lambasted.....lol

And actually having read the report rather than just googling to find the name of something you can write to give the impression that you have researched your position......that will NOT go down well!

Seriously, thank you for adding some much needed sanity checking to this debate. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
zikomo wrote:
@swiftoid,

Not sure what you are saying or why, you have absolutely no basis on which to make this judgement. Interesting that all those who claim taking kids out of school for a week damages their education have not put forward one piece of research or fact to back it up. But they all state categorically that it is bad for children's education.

Oh - and of course I did. My children are in a private school, for which I pay a great deal of money. The reason I point that out is to indicate how much I value education, it would be very odd indeed to make that choice but then not take a great deal of care to ensure they had the best educational outcome possible. So of course I researched the facts to establish what influences that educational outcome, and also researched extensively to find the right school . I am simply suggesting that others should also research the issue, establish the facts, analyse them, then make their best judgement. As opposed to sending them to the local school, just hoping for the best, taking as read anything that the government suggests must be the best for THEIR children,and criticising those who choose to take responsibility for finding out how best to get the best education for their children.


I haven't stated that at all.

Show me the research that states it would be better for your children's education to go skiing during term time than not miss school and go skiing during the holidays instead. Or, god forbid, not go skiing at all and do something else instead during the holidays?
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
"To return to the daft speed limit analogy it would be like police publicly announcing that even though the speed limit was 70 all motorists were allowed to travel at 80."

You aren't far off, 10% + 1.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
It is ironic that much of this has been done by a government which supposedly believes in less state interference......
This, with knobs on. Gove was the most centralising Education Secretary in the last couple of decades, dictating day to day life in school in so many different ways. What's Her Name is not quite so interventionist, but is not rolling back any of the Gove reforms (or as a couple of friends who are headteachers would say, reign of terror).
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
JoyZipper wrote:
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:


When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


All black and white with you isn't it. My wife does say this about me an all aspects of life !

While it's not ideal taking kids out of school, it's not usually the end of the world. Neither is a child shoplifting/swearing/smoking, but I wouldn't condone those either.

My parents took me out of school to go skiing (thanks dad!) and yet I still managed to scrape a 1st class honours degree and a masters. So I don't think missing the odd week of school here and there to do something interesting was of such paramount importance to my education. Our choice at the moment is to take our daughter out of school for a couple of weeks or not go skiing at all. You would say tough, don't go skiing then. I would.

But I value our family life more than that! But you still have lots of time when they're on school holidays to spend valuable family time together - off the top of my head around 13/14 weeks per year. That's why I say that there is always an excuse.

Do you honestly think that it's going to make the difference between passing or failing her GCSEs in 10 years time? Maybe you do, but I certainly don't. Possibly - it's one of many intangible factors which make up the bigger picture.




Crawl back under your rock troll.
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This is getting worse than a helmet thread discussion.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Walk a mile in my shoes........
see what I see,
feel what I feel,
hear what I hear.
Then maybe you'll understand why I do what I do.
Until then don't judge me!

I think a few people here need to read this and understand that we all make our own decisions based on what we know, not on what someone else claims they know. Then pull their heads out of their back bottoms and shut up.

Controversial but fair!
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would much prefer for the next generation to be able to come up with a well-balanced argument about when it is important or essential to follow the rules and when it isn't, than to just say "these are the rules, gotta follow them". Even if that runs the risk that some people may end up following too few.

But then again, I grew up under a system of stupid rules, I'm biased against blind obedience.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
swiftoid wrote:
Quote:

based on researching the issue and establishing the facts



Lol, no you didn't.


Sorry I must have misinterpreted this, but it looks to me that you stated I have not researched and established the facts. Which is an odd thing to say as you have no basis for knowing, and it is also just a little provocative (just a little, I am certainly not crying about it!). And it is also untrue and unsubstantiated - just saying something does not make it come true!

And I do not have any evidence that taking kids out of school to go skiing is BENEFICIAL to their education, and neither have I ever claimed that i think it is. There is plenty of evidence, however, that all things being equal it is not DETRIMENTAL to their education, soothing which you and others have claimed. So as I have seen plenty of evidence to support my position, that is it not detrimental, I just asked to see the evidence on which others (such as your good self) are basing their opinion that it is detrimental. I am genuinely interested as I want to see if I have missed anything when looking into this issue and deciding whether to take my kids skiing during term time.

In short - it is very strange to ask for me to evidence a position I have never articulated and do not believe in, whilst at the same time refusing to evidence a position you have very clearly stated.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:


When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


All black and white with you isn't it. My wife does say this about me an all aspects of life !

While it's not ideal taking kids out of school, it's not usually the end of the world. Neither is a child shoplifting/swearing/smoking, but I wouldn't condone those either.

My parents took me out of school to go skiing (thanks dad!) and yet I still managed to scrape a 1st class honours degree and a masters. So I don't think missing the odd week of school here and there to do something interesting was of such paramount importance to my education. Our choice at the moment is to take our daughter out of school for a couple of weeks or not go skiing at all. You would say tough, don't go skiing then. I would.

But I value our family life more than that! But you still have lots of time when they're on school holidays to spend valuable family time together - off the top of my head around 13/14 weeks per year. That's why I say that there is always an excuse.

Do you honestly think that it's going to make the difference between passing or failing her GCSEs in 10 years time? Maybe you do, but I certainly don't. Possibly - it's one of many intangible factors which make up the bigger picture.




Crawl back under your rock troll.


I must congratulate you Sir on an excellent retort. At which Debating Society did you learn this witty one liner ? rolling eyes
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@horizon,

I'm 31 and my 1 yo son will be going skiing with me when he's older and at school and will no doubt be taken out of school. I'm not paying the premium (and lets remember there is only 1 week a year you can truly take your children skiing in School Holidays anywhere, Xmas and Easter your limited as to what resort will have skiable terrain being Early / Late in the season), as I'm at work 5 days a week between 07:30 and 19:00 my quality time with him will be limited so I think a boys week away once a year will do him no harm and will happily pay the "fine".

Summer holidays will be in School holidays as a family holiday.

The laws an ass it's seems.

So I'm not going to be blindly follow the silly rules just because.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@uktrailmonster,

+1
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
zikomo wrote:
@JoyZipper,

I like that you take the opinion of your School Governers seriously, but they will almost certainly NOT be experts in education.


I never said that they were.

I quote (verbatim) "They are more of an expert in education than I will ever be." and I stick to that as I am not an expert in education myself.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
impingu1984 wrote:
@horizon,

I'm 31 and my 1 yo son will be going skiing with me when he's older and at school and will no doubt be taken out of school. I'm not paying the premium (and lets remember there is only 1 week a year you can truly take your children skiing in School Holidays anywhere, Xmas and Easter you're limited as to what resort will have skiable terrain being Early / Late in the season), as I'm at work 5 days a week between 07:30 and 19:00 my quality time with him will be limited so I think a boys week away once a year will do him no harm and will happily pay the "fine".

Summer holidays will be in School holidays as a family holiday.

The laws an ass it's seems.

So I'm not going to be blindly follow the silly rules just because.


More excuses.

I had my children away at New Year this year and am going away with them at Easter again. You may be limited, but there's still plenty skiing available for a child.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
JoyZipper wrote:
zikomo wrote:
@JoyZipper,

I like that you take the opinion of your School Governers seriously, but they will almost certainly NOT be experts in education.


I never said that they were.

I quote (verbatim) "They are more of an expert in education than I will ever be." and I stick to that as I am not an expert in education myself.


You really don't know what School Governers do, do you? And bless you, you value education so highly that pretty much anyone is more of an expert in education than you will ever be. Or try the alternative, some light reading and research would make you just as expert as most school governors as far as educational science is concerned, It won't make you their equal in leadership, management, community insight, intelligence, achievement, level of education, or any other positive attribute for which they have been chosen as a governor though. Most parents I know put a lot of thought into their children's education, including finding out as much as they can before making any decision that might affect it. In fact most parents become "expert" to some extent because they value eduction so highly. Certainly most of the parents here have put forward well considered and balanced arguments - to be met with vitriol form a small number who simply cannot understand reasoned debate or anyone who has a different opinion.
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
impingu1984 wrote:
@horizon,

I'm 31 and my 1 yo son will be going skiing with me when he's older and at school and will no doubt be taken out of school. I'm not paying the premium (and lets remember there is only 1 week a year you can truly take your children skiing in School Holidays anywhere, Xmas and Easter your limited as to what resort will have skiable terrain being Early / Late in the season), as I'm at work 5 days a week between 07:30 and 19:00 my quality time with him will be limited so I think a boys week away once a year will do him no harm and will happily pay the "fine".

Summer holidays will be in School holidays as a family holiday.

The laws an ass it's seems.

So I'm not going to be blindly follow the silly rules just because.


My advice - just ignore those who are simply incapable of understanding a different opinion but feel entitled to criticise those who decide to do something that does not at all effect them. It is your choice to make, and no-one here has come up with a single piece of evidence or research which shows taking the occasional week will do any harm.
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Boris
Quote:

The report very much talks about strengthening the existing rules. Yes it recognises that persistent absence is damaging and suggests ways to tackle persistent absence, it is not aimed (to my reading of the report) at the odd few days here and there for kids who have a good level.
, The Taylor report mentions strenthening the existing rules - Which is precisely what has happened. The report also talks very explicitly about term-time holidays. Paragraphs 14, 15, Recommendation #6, and in the section on Effective School Practice he notes: "Parents are taught to understand the difference between minor ailments and the sort of illness that warrants a day off and head teachers refuse every request for holidays unless there are really exceptional circumstances". If you read the Taylor report carefully you will see that he clearly believes that term-time holidays ARE an issue.

You also refer to 'kids who have a good level [of attendance?]'. The point is that a child with an average number of unavoidable days off for sickness etc. and takes a term-time holiday is not going to have a 'good' attendance level. Look at it another way, an employee who takes his full holiday entitlement, the average number of sick days AND another week's leave without permission is hardly likely to be regarded as having a 'good' attendance rate.
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
zikomo wrote:
swiftoid wrote:
Quote:

based on researching the issue and establishing the facts



Lol, no you didn't.



And I do not have any evidence that taking kids out of school to go skiing is BENEFICIAL to their education, and neither have I ever claimed that i think it is. There is plenty of evidence, however, that all things being equal it is not DETRIMENTAL to their education


Do you believe that children spending time IN school is BENEFICIAL ?


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 8-02-16 15:09; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
JoyZipper wrote:
impingu1984 wrote:
@horizon,

I'm 31 and my 1 yo son will be going skiing with me when he's older and at school and will no doubt be taken out of school. I'm not paying the premium (and lets remember there is only 1 week a year you can truly take your children skiing in School Holidays anywhere, Xmas and Easter you're limited as to what resort will have skiable terrain being Early / Late in the season), as I'm at work 5 days a week between 07:30 and 19:00 my quality time with him will be limited so I think a boys week away once a year will do him no harm and will happily pay the "fine".

Summer holidays will be in School holidays as a family holiday.

The laws an ass it's seems.

So I'm not going to be blindly follow the silly rules just because.


More excuses.

I had my children away at New Year this year and am going away with them at Easter again. You may be limited, but there's still plenty skiing available for a child.


You're insufferable aren't you and a spelling / grammer Nazi to boot.

I'll be doing exactly as I've stated if my son wishes to go skiing, I didn't seek your permission.

Also in my experience from my Mum who actually worked at a school most (not all) governors were much like politicians, people more interested in their own self-importance and self-promotion yet at the same time unqualified to actually be in the position they operate in. I'd take a School Governor opinion with a slight pinch of salt without knowing their background and true intentions.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
JoyZipper wrote:
zikomo wrote:
swiftoid wrote:
Quote:

based on researching the issue and establishing the facts



Lol, no you didn't.



And I do not have any evidence that taking kids out of school to go skiing is BENEFICIAL to their education, and neither have I ever claimed that i think it is. There is plenty of evidence, however, that all things being equal it is not DETRIMENTAL to their education


Do you believe that children spending time IN school is BENEFICIAL ?


False dichotomy alert (+ strawman alert, for good measure)!
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@Boris
Quote:

The report very much talks about strengthening the existing rules. Yes it recognises that persistent absence is damaging and suggests ways to tackle persistent absence, it is not aimed (to my reading of the report) at the odd few days here and there for kids who have a good level.
, The Taylor report mentions strenthening the existing rules - Which is precisely what has happened. The report also talks very explicitly about term-time holidays. Paragraphs 14, 15, Recommendation #6, and in the section on Effective School Practice he notes: "Parents are taught to understand the difference between minor ailments and the sort of illness that warrants a day off and head teachers refuse every request for holidays unless there are really exceptional circumstances". If you read the Taylor report carefully you will see that he clearly believes that term-time holidays ARE an issue.

You also refer to 'kids who have a good level [of attendance?]'. The point is that a child with an average number of unavoidable days off for sickness etc. and takes a term-time holiday is not going to have a 'good' attendance level. Look at it another way, an employee who takes his full holiday entitlement, the average number of sick days AND another week's leave without permission is hardly likely to be regarded as having a 'good' attendance rate.


You need to read the whole of the report not just some if it, it is quite balanced on this issue actually but there is a recommendation on tightening the rules. The fact is the evidence is just not there, and we have still not seen anyone here coming forward with any, that an occasional week is detrimental to a child's education.

And also - the fact is that my children (and I suspect quite a lot of the other parents here are the same) do not take the "average' number of sick days. Very far from it. And that is empirical as I have 4 kids, and I see their attendance % compared to the average for each of them. They have been better than average every year despite taking a week out for skiing. Lots of kids are off lots of days for reasons I would not condone, including not liking sports in winter masquerading as a mild headache!
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@CAPTA1N P, +1! Some polarised opinions on taking them out; what we should all be agreeing on, as skiers, is that the underlying problem is the whole uk having the same half-term week! This situation, and the heavy handed way of dealing with good parents trying to manage it, is strangling the uk ski industry, and denying many kids a fantastic experience.

Christmas and NY are marginal for reliable ski holidays in the lower(&cheaper) resorts, as is Easter. Everyone, given no restrictions, would like to go in Feb/early March. The French, Germans, Dutch, Swedish, Polish and Czechs deal with this issue by phasing their winter holidays (see the School Holidays table). Denmark has two weeks. Only The Belgians and Brits stick to one week for all.

This causes the high prices, and crowded slopes, and lack of choice for parents. It harms the domestic ski industry (and the uk leisure industry in general) and affects many brit dependant resorts in the alps. So rather than arguing with each other and railing against the unfairness of the fines etc., we should all be campaigning to get the government to consider phased holidays. Of course it needs to be introduced carefully to avoid siblings straddling the regional divisions, but it's not rocket science.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
impingu1984 wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:
impingu1984 wrote:
@horizon,

I'm 31 and my 1 yo son will be going skiing with me when he's older and at school and will no doubt be taken out of school. I'm not paying the premium (and lets remember there is only 1 week a year you can truly take your children skiing in School Holidays anywhere, Xmas and Easter you're limited as to what resort will have skiable terrain being Early / Late in the season), as I'm at work 5 days a week between 07:30 and 19:00 my quality time with him will be limited so I think a boys week away once a year will do him no harm and will happily pay the "fine".

Summer holidays will be in School holidays as a family holiday.

The laws an ass it's seems.

So I'm not going to be blindly follow the silly rules just because.


More excuses.

I had my children away at New Year this year and am going away with them at Easter again. You may be limited, but there's still plenty skiing available for a child.


You're insufferable aren't you (in your opinion) and a spelling / grammer Nazi to boot.

I'll be doing exactly as I've stated if my son wishes to go skiing, I didn't seek your permission.

Also in my experience from my Mum who actually worked at a school most (not all) governors were much like politicians, people more interested in their own self-importance and self-promotion yet at the same time unqualified to actually be in the position they operate in. I'd take a School Governor opinion with a slight pinch of salt without knowing their background and true intentions.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@JoyZipper,

Quote:

You're insufferable aren't you (in your opinion) and a spelling / grammer Nazi to boot.


Based on your continued attacks in this thread on others who have a differing opinion to yours my opinion of you is somewhat stronger than simply insufferable.

Live and let live......
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
impingu1984 wrote:
@JoyZipper,

Quote:

You're insufferable aren't you (in your opinion) and a spelling / grammer Nazi to boot.


Based on your continued attacks in this thread on others who have a differing opinion to yours my opinion of you is somewhat stronger than simply insufferable.

Live and let live......


Fair point.

I'm going to take a back seat on this one now as it's fairly obvious what my stance is. It is a subject matter that is very close to many hearts and therefore strong opinions are going to come to the fore.

I don't think that I was attacking anyone, simply stating what they perhaps don't want to hear. If I did it wasn't intentional and I apologise.

I bid you all farewell.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I am sure it has been pointed out before - but lots of UK areas do no have a half term break at all in the winter, including ours. I do not say this as an excuse, as I already said I don't believe I need one, but it is something we should all be keen to see changed.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy