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Taking children out of school....

 Poster: A snowHead
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@T Bar, not the point - children are required to go to school whether you like it or not or risk a fine. I have to go below 70mph or risk a fine.

I work in school holidays as well - majority of people have flexibility in holiday schedule to take holiday during school holidays so no need to take kids out of school and waste the place that has been paid for.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@T Bar, same with us. I'm not allowed time off between mid November and mid January. And my wife is in the police where there is restricted leave in holidays due to kids being out of school and able to cause trouble. Then you add the normal problems of other parents wanting time off during school holidays meaning we have to share. So our choices are a bit limited. If we were lucky we might get a February half term off together every 3 or 4 years. The same goes for the summer holidays. If we're lucky we might get a week off together. But if we do that there won't be enough time off for us to cover the school holidays between us and we'd have to find some sort of holiday club to dump her into. So what this legislation is saying, really, is that we can't have holidays with our child because school results are too important to the nation for that.
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@henzerani, so Police aren't allowed time off in school holidays. I will check with my Father in Law who was in the police for 30 years but I'm expecting to hear him having a good laugh at that suggestion. Police are really good at being flexible on who does what when to help each other.

Ski season runs through the xmas holiday, half term and Easter holiday - surely some time to find a week off.

You then go on to say that you should take kids out of school in term time as it helps with holiday cover - think about it, you are making the problem worse by using up holiday when the kids are in school rather than using holiday in school holiday time.

You don't mention cost - does this factor into your decision making?!
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alti - dude wrote:
@T Bar, not the point - children are required to go to school whether you like it or not or risk a fine. I have to go below 70mph or risk a fine.

.

The 70 mph rule is lightly enforced with a degree of discretion. It is designed to save lives
The school rule is largely designed to tick bureaucratic boxes in the guise of educational endeavour and is frequently enforced with no degree of discretion..
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T Bar wrote:
alti - dude wrote:
@T Bar, not the point - children are required to go to school whether you like it or not or risk a fine. I have to go below 70mph or risk a fine.

.

The 70 mph rule is lightly enforced with a degree of discretion. It is designed to save lives
The school rule is largely designed to tick bureaucratic boxes in the guise of educational endeavour and is frequently enforced with no degree of discretion..


I hesitate to go over old ground yet again, but:
1. Your views on why the school holiday guidelines have been changed/enforced are just supposition. Of the possible motives the government may have had, improve educational outcomes or tick bureaucratic boxes, then I'm inclined to think the first is more feasible.
2. The speed limit analogy is a pretty daft one, but if we must run with that then: The speed limit is lightly enforced....unless the police can see that they are being routinely flouted and/or that the flouting is having undesirable consequences and then they are enforced far more severely. I'd also add that when you are caught speeding by cameras etc. they are always enforced. There is no discretion.
3. Historically there was more discretion. Teachers were allowed to authorise absence for 10 days holiday in extraordinary/exceptional circumstances. The problem was that parents then regarded the ten days as a God given right and, by their own admission, teachers then felt unable to enforce the guidelines for fear of a breakdown in relationships between parents and the school.

There are circumstances in which children should be allowed out for special reasons, but I have heard very few genuine ones so far. I understand that it isn't always easy for children and both parents to take holidays at the same time, but even if we assume that a skiing holiday is essential family time (which it clearly isn't) then I am waiting to hear of cases where families are consistently, year after year, unable to find a single week in the three holiday periods that overlap with the skiing season. They are pretty rare.
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@foxtrotzulu,
As established earlier the government might have a little more credibility with regards to family values and education if their tribal default mechanism wasn't to cast off their kids from home for bullying and buggery.
And they did not get longer holidays and have larger amounts of money to enjoy them than the rest of the hoi polloi.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
foxtrotzulu wrote:
T Bar wrote:
alti - dude wrote:
@T Bar, not the point - children are required to go to school whether you like it or not or risk a fine. I have to go below 70mph or risk a fine.

.

The 70 mph rule is lightly enforced with a degree of discretion. It is designed to save lives
The school rule is largely designed to tick bureaucratic boxes in the guise of educational endeavour and is frequently enforced with no degree of discretion..


I hesitate to go over old ground yet again, but:
1. Your views on why the school holiday guidelines have been changed/enforced are just supposition. Of the possible motives the government may have had, improve educational outcomes or tick bureaucratic boxes, then I'm inclined to think the first is more feasible.
2. The speed limit analogy is a pretty daft one, but if we must run with that then: The speed limit is lightly enforced....unless the police can see that they are being routinely flouted and/or that the flouting is having undesirable consequences and then they are enforced far more severely. I'd also add that when you are caught speeding by cameras etc. they are always enforced. There is no discretion.
3. Historically there was more discretion. Teachers were allowed to authorise absence for 10 days holiday in extraordinary/exceptional circumstances. The problem was that parents then regarded the ten days as a God given right and, by their own admission, teachers then felt unable to enforce the guidelines for fear of a breakdown in relationships between parents and the school.

There are circumstances in which children should be allowed out for special reasons, but I have heard very few genuine ones so far. I understand that it isn't always easy for children and both parents to take holidays at the same time, but even if we assume that a skiing holiday is essential family time (which it clearly isn't) then I am waiting to hear of cases where families are consistently, year after year, unable to find a single week in the three holiday periods that overlap with the skiing season. They are pretty rare.


I wonder - do you have children yourself? Some of your opinions seem very strident and also do not at all match my experience of bringing up 4 quite clever children. Why on earth do you think it unreasonable of parents to take their kids out of school for a week, and why on earth do you think anyone would need to justify that to yo or anyone else? And before you refer to "the law", be aware that I am perfectly entitled to take my children out of school permanently - all that is required by the law is for children to attend an adequate amount of educational time.

There is NO evidence that missing a week of school here and there will make any measurable difference to educational outcome. What will are: frequent absences, lack of parental engagement in eduction, lack of ambition (in that order). It also still remains a fact that the biggest indicator of educational outcome is the number of books in a household - a simple measure which predicts a whole host of positive influences.

I have never had a problem taking my children out of school for a ski holiday, I have never felt bad about it and never will. And I pay directly for my children's education so in that sense it is a much more expensive option in a way, and it is also true the fact I choose to pay for eduction is a very good indication that I value it very highly.
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@zikomo, Yes I have children. I never suggested that anyone has to justify school absences to me. You claim there is no evidence that children who have a week off school here and there will suffer educationally, and yet there is plenty of evidence to link the two. Until the day when a government is daft enough to stipulate the number of books in a house then we have to rely on other means.

The law requires that children are in full time education and the courts seem to have interpreted that to mean you can't bunk off for a week here or there without permission. So, in that sense the law is relevant here.

As someone said above, if it doesn't matter in the slightest if children miss a week of school then let's reduce term lengths by a week. Fine by me. i do think that children skipping weeks is disruptive to their classes and the children themselves and I don't agree with most of the nonsense about how educational a week's skiing or lying on a beach is. My point is simply that there are more than enough weeks of holiday for the vast majority of families to get away together at least once a year and that, barring exceptional circumstances, holidays should therefore not be taken in term-time.
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Isn't it good that we have a happy variety of opinions.

I shall be taking my 5 year old granddaughter out of school shortly. I have absolutely no doubt at all that a week in the Suedtirol will be beneficial since:

she will get lots of exercise
she will be learning new skills
she will be in ski school with a non-english group
she will learn that there are areas where English is NOT spoken
she will learn new tastes and new experiences

It will all contribute to her becoming a more "rounded" individual
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@foxtrotzulu, I generally agree with the points, and its incidental as the OH is a teacher. One thing you have not mentioned is costs, with school holiday costs generally 30-70% more expensive ( and i am not just talking skiing). Sure there are options to reduce the cost and also the option of just not going. I do think a blanket statement of "there are plenty of school holiday weeks to choose from" isnt taking the whole picture into account and there is nothing to balance the school choosing to lose days at their choice, which they do with some regularity.
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@JohnHSmith, glad you sleep comfortably wasting tax payers money. Sounds like you are a better teacher than the professionals so perhaps you should consider home education full time and we can save the cost of education for one person? Sounds like Suedtirol is only open in term time so you can only go then . . . or could it be that you want to save money?

I've taken the view that as a parent I should educate my children about following rules rather than showing them how to sneak round the system with white lies or to flagrantly disobey them. Just where my moral compass is and others can choose where to point their children.

I have 2 kids who have had great holidays and not at extortionate prices - never missed a day's school for a holiday.
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Quote:


I have 2 kids who have had great holidays and not at extortionate prices - never missed a day's school for a holiday.



If i ignore the extortionate prices part, same here what's your point?

Do you complain when the school take them on 'non-educational' trips or if the school is closed for half an inch of heavy frost?
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@ansta1, my point is that children are expected to be in school, for 190 days in a year leaving plenty of time for holidays/non school academic education etc.

In the vast majority, but not all, of cases with a bit of planning, creativity and organisation there is absolutely no need to take children out of school to go skiing.
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@alti - dude,
Personally I pay into the tax system so money spent on education is as much mine as anyone's.
When I took my children out of school it was with the full knowledge and approval of the teachers and inno way undermined them, which is something I would not wish to do.
However if an idiotic bureaucracy insists that I cannot have some family time at minimal or no cost to my child's education I would not hesitate to inform my children that deception in this case was morally justified.
Personally I value my families well being above an inane bureaucratic nonsense. Laws are there to protect society from each others malevolence or carelessness not to get people to jump through hoops at a bureaucrats whim.
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alti - dude, yes thank you. I sleep quite comfortably. As a taxpayer who is paying for the education of my grandchildren, I am grateful for the schooling that is on offer. I am not one of those people who thinks that the state should take over everything though and I do regard it as my responsibility to fill in the gaps which are not covered by the state. Happily the head teacher seems to agree with this viewpoint. IF it were the case that my grandchildren were felt to be in need of extra tuition in reading / maths / whatever then I might take a different view of them missing some school time. But at age 5 / 6 / 7 I think it is at least as important to experience a new culture and language as it is to do a bit more of the three Rs. In case you are interested, in Summer we will be in the Dordogne, camping by the Vezere river and visiting Lascaux and Le Thot and as well as talking about cave paintings and the like, we will also be talking about King Henry, Elinor of Aquitaine, bastide towns and so on. I expect that we will also visit Rocamadour and Oradour. Each of these will be an education. Especially Oradour-sur-Glane. The experience of visiting this place will stand her in good stead for future school lessons. What has this got to do with skiing? Everything. Skiing in the Suedtirol will provide a basis for geography / geology / history / language / and general all round culture
I don't think that I can compete with the specialists when it comes to teaching about mathematics and the like and I pay my taxes to pay for this. But I do not feel that as a responsible (grand)parent that I can neglect the areas that the school cannot cover as well.
I suppose it depends on whether you take the view that the state knows best and you should simply go with the view of the state, or whether you go with the view that (grand)parents know best.
My view is that neither is correct. The state does some things best. Other things are best done by family. Whether in the time that the state has designated as "school time" or outside those times.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@T Bar, I see - the old 'it's OK to flout a law I disagree with' argument . . . .

I don't like the amount of tax I have to pay as a result of "inane bureaucratic nonsense" and wasted resources but haven't really got an option but to pay up unless I apply your logic of only abiding by laws/requirements I agree with.

I really don't think issuing fines for non attendance is a bureaucratic hoop just a deterrent against ignoring the requirements of the system.

No real rights and wrongs here just people with different moral standards by which they measure their action by.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@JohnHSmith, all good stuff something I will aspire to if/when I become a grandparent.

but why don't you do it in the school holidays which is the point of the thread?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
alti - dude oh I will do it in the school holidays. Dordogne / Vezere / Perigord will be in the school holidays. If I can mix that in with a bit of Ypres / Menin Gate so much the better. This half term is Munich - staying with a family there rather than a hotel - experience the real Bayern as much as we can. Not sure what we will be doing at Easter yet. If the weather is good (or at least not too bad) then a bit of camping I should think. Angle Tarn above Patterdale rather than a campsite. A bit of map reading mixed in with respect for the countryside (including digging your own toilets) and cooking. Which means that if we are to get to the Dolomites (including Hidden Valley, horse drawn ski tow, Marmolada and First World War museum) then we will either do that when there is snow (term time) or at Easter (sadly not enough snow for Dolomites).
What it ultimately boils down to is this: Does "nanny state" know best? Can parents / family be trusted to behave responsibly in making judgements as to what is right?
I have my view on this. Basically I regard myself as "buying into" education etc by paying my taxes. I do not subscribe to the view that if I do this then I must also buy into the restrictions that go with it. I am a consumer here. I am choosing to buy in on my terms. I fully accept that it is not a view with which everyone will agree. But I do feel that it is a valid viewpoint. And it is my viewpoint. Please feel free to disagree. But I rejoice in the diversity of views and attitudes and I fully intend to give my family the opportunity to see things from differing angles and I hope to encourage them to question everyday matters
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@JohnHSmith, Why didn't you arrange to go to the Dolomites this half term, Munich during the Easter holidays and go camping locally any weekends you fancy.

That way your grandchild would get even more education by getting all you offer AND all the school offers.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@JohnHSmith, so you are arguing that there isn't enough school holidays to be able to do your frankly impressive range of activities?

Whilst I might agree or disagree with you, the fact of the matter is that there is a requirement around school attendance and a process for obtaining approval to miss school and a fine system for those that don't bother with or get the appropriate approval. If anybody doesn't like it then there is a democratic system to get the laws changed.

Sadly the tax system doesn't operate on a buyer of services/provider of services normal commercial basis - it is different from you paying to be a member of a golf club and then deciding if you use the golf club. This is a matter of fact not opinion.

Of course you are entitled to take the view that the fine is in effect a payment to opt out of the system that presumably Parliament has determined in the same way that I could drive at 95mph and pay the fine/take the points if I get caught.
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swiftoid because the family that we are staying with can accommodate us at half term

alti - dude I am not actually arguing that there isn't enough school holidays to do activities with my family. I am saying that in order to achieve what I consider to be a balance, it is necessary to make a value judgement. I am a buyer of services through my tax payments. I cannot decide whether to support nuclear arms as such (although I can try to make my views known - through the electoral system despite the fact that at election time I am offered a basket of goods by various candidates and in reality I do not get a choice as to which individual aspects of public expenditure I vote for) but I can decide whether to go for school education or home education or to try to top up the school education with some extras. I was fortunate enough to have a lot of freedom in my early life and I hope that I gave the same to my children. If I can continue to do that with my grandchildren (with their parent's approval) then I will consider myself to be fortunate in what I can pass on. Education doesn't stop at the school gates
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alti - dude wrote:


Of course you are entitled to take the view that the fine is in effect a payment to opt out of the system that presumably Parliament has determined in the same way that I could drive at 95mph and pay the fine/take the points if I get caught.


If I speed at 95 mph and it goes wrong I might kill someone.
If my children miss a couple of days of school I may upset someone with a tickbox.
If I get caught in either case I may risk a fine . I accept the risk in either case but would rather not get one.
In the former case I am rather less happy to accept the moral opprobium that society offers than in the latter.
I will stick with endeavouring not to speed but taking holidays in the best interest of my family rather than the bureaucrats thanks.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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alti - dude wrote:
@JohnHSmith, so you are arguing that there isn't enough school holidays to be able to do your frankly impressive range of activities?


Just re-reading this. I don't think our activities are in any way impressive. It takes little effort to go and sleep in a tent. Summer holidays spent doing things are just simply enjoyable for all.

Getting back to the subject, not all children are academic. Not all children are sporty. Everyone is different. Sometimes rules are needed. Sometimes a bit of flexibility goes a long way. We are fortunate in our school in that a sensible course of action is approved. We were even given help / pointers in what to put in the letter requesting absence.
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@JohnHSmith, fair enough. So you could go to Munich this half term, pick something else equally educational for Easter, still go camping any weekend you like and go to the Domites next year instead.

I get the desire to take them skiing but I call bull on any claim that taking them out of school to go to the Dolomites is more educational than taking them on any number of different trips during the holidays instead.

I don't really care about your plans but pretending that skipping school to go somewhere with skiing is of more educational benefit than not missing school and visiting somewhere else of historical interest instead during the holidays is really not very convincing.
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I'm not pretending anything. I'm not seeking to justify anything. I am doing what I am doing. I would find it difficult to argue the respective educational merits of a trip to the D Day beaches / extra mathematics / a ski trip / an extra physics lesson.
All I am saying is that I am doing my best to help someone grow into a well rounded adult in years to come.
If that involves missing a couple of days of school then so be it.
I like to make my own mind up about things. I won't be "right" all the time. But I don't like being dictated to by a bigoted governmental system that thinks it does know best all the time.
Should children be allowed to miss out on lessons?
In my view, yes.
But you have to be sensible about it and choose the dates, length of absence, etc carefully and if you can do this with the approval of the school who can help in choosing dates etc then that is all to the good.
Being excessively prescriptive about these things helps nobody
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alti - dude wrote:
@JohnHSmith, glad you sleep comfortably wasting tax payers money. Sounds like you are a better teacher than the professionals so perhaps you should consider home education full time and we can save the cost of education for one person? Sounds like Suedtirol is only open in term time so you can only go then . . . or could it be that you want to save money?

I've taken the view that as a parent I should educate my children about following rules rather than showing them how to sneak round the system with white lies or to flagrantly disobey them. Just where my moral compass is and others can choose where to point their children.

I have 2 kids who have had great holidays and not at extortionate prices - never missed a day's school for a holiday.


What a crass statement to make. It just shows you have little to no understand or willingness to understand other peoples position and circumstances. Have you ever thought that maybe the example you are setting for your children is to blindly follow rules and never dare question if they are right or wrong. That there may be a better solution.

I used to take our kids out of school in May for two weeks around the May holiday, we drove through Europe visited world heritage sites, often spending more than a day exploring them. They witnessed first hand modern engineering wonders being built. They mingled with locals and also kids and parents from many European cultures. The school loved what we did admitted that they could never learn what they learnt with us on holiday if given double that time in a class. That the knowledge they gained enhanced the classroom experience when it came round to studying the things we did, it made learning more fun for the whole class.

But then the rules changed and it was no longer was beneficial it only detracted from learning, so what changed ?

THE LAW AND TEACHERS BEING FORCED TO SAY IT WAS WRONG TO TAKE CHILDREN OUT OF SCHOOL.

The learning did not change the attendance did not change nor did the classroom benefits of a student talking about first hand experience of the subject.

Now I accept not all parents do this some maybe even many do just sit on a beach and for some with the stressful jobs they have that is essential to ensure they do not breakdown. Ski holidays are not quite the same though as the gov always go on about exercise for children about child obesity the drain this will and does have on establishments like the NHS. So a week of physical activity while experiencing a different culture does have benefits and it is mute point here as to if this is better than a week in school or not as that can only be judged individually and I accept that for some the week in school will be more beneficial just as for others the weeks exercise etc will be.

This rule was an ill thought out knee jerk reaction from people and by people who actually do not live in the real world, have no real knowledge of the matter but hey at least it ticked boxes as it showed they where trying to tackle persistent absenteeism.
Even the bad example of spped limits helps demonstrate this ridiculous law that is interpreted differently by different councils ie some will fine others do not. With the speed limit of 70mph if you do 80 and get clocked you are fined, do 30mph or more over and pretty much a ban though if lucky you may talk it down to a much higher fine, but do 75 mph and your fine there is that room built in as the rules re taking kids out of school should have but is not working because the rule is ill thought and ill conceived teaching staff feel bound to refuse even though 10 sessions/5 days is permitted.

The biggest insult though is this rule is not really tackling the real problem the kids who are always off. But it is always the parents fault ! My kids school we know of a family who the kid bunks off they where threatened with fines and though they do not drive sorted out a taxi to school each morning and walked home ( they could not afford taxi back home as well ) they thought all was well till they got another threatening letter from the LEA their child was not attending classes and was should we say escaping from school during school time. They thankfully went to some free legal advice clinic who got in touch and pretty much threatened a counter lawsuit that the school was unfit for allowing this child to escape while in school.
My point with this is to try and show there are serious flaws with this rule not just in it's wording but more seriously with it's interpretation. We as parents/guardians have a moral duty to question it.

Re the police bit posted earlier was it not mentioned many pages back or if not in the media that some chief constables had asked that their staff be exempt because of how the duty of an officer limits time. If a legal body can argue an exemption because it does not fit in with work schedules that same argument is valid for anyone else who's work schedule has a similar impact.
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@JohnHSmith, struggling with the point you are making - you seem to be debating whether we need to educate our children out of school when I don't think it's really an argument. My point is that you don't need to do it during term time!

@speed098, not a crass statement at all. You make a point in lots of words that basically says the rules are misguided. That may or may not be the case, but they are the rules and until they are changed, they are the rules and the implication of breaking them are well known so don't moan if a fine gets levied.

Suggest you write to you LEA and MP and see if they can get changed - if you are right, taking all factors into account, then they will be changed. If on balance, they are right, then they stay. A well known democratic process.
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alti - dude that's ok. You don't have to understand.
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You know it makes sense.
@foxtrotzulu,

Please can you point me in the direction of the research and evidence that taking otherwise well brought up children from backgrounds that support/value education out of school for a week effects their educational outcome? What I believe has been shown is that FREQUENT, UNPLANNED and UNEXPLAINED absences - i.e. a poor absence record - has a negative effect. The vast majority of people here could take their children out for a weeks ski holiday and still have a better than average attendance record.

It is not true that the "law requires children to be in full time education", this demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the actual legal position (i.e. ignorance) and oversimplification (i.e. lack of intelligent insight). There are all sorts of different education models that are allowed under the law as well as many exemptions - I actually know this, unlike your position which is nothing better than your best guess of what you would like the law to be. Again though, please point me in the direction of the actual law you refer to as I am keen to have my knowledge expanded (maybe in my years of training and building professional knowledge I have missed something entirely).

You are indeed suggesting that parents should justify themselves, including to you, for taking children out of school. You state again and again that you think it is wrong, disruptive, and that there is no excuse. You actually use pejorative and judgmental language quite consistently, if you do not want to be seen as judgemental I suggest you consider your words more carefully. I question why you feel the need to tell one and all they are wrong to take their children out of school for a week, and that we are all bad parents and citizens for doing so.

And for the record I would have been tempted to leave this alone, but for the "what a crock of ****" statement you chose to direct at me and my opinion. Very unpleasant and unnecessary, you just demonstrated you cannot disagree with anyone in an adult manner and as you don't actually know the facts (although you certainly make a lot of statements that suggest you do) you have to rely on abuse to get your point across. Very sad.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We're taking our 6 year old out of school for 2 weeks again at Easter. It's not ideal, but it's the only time my wife can get away from running her business for various reasons. We did the same last year and I'm pretty sure it had zero effect on her education. We wrote a letter to the school explaining what we were doing and they were quite supportive actually. Even got her to do a little project about her big trip.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@alti - dude,

It is not just me and yes I have complained to MP as the phrase "put up or shut up" for me rings true So I complained to MP I have spoken to Director and Ass Director plus secretary of the Education Dept. I tried to speak to head but waste of time and have spoken to many of the teaching staff especially those we count as friends ( they are the ones who feel safe telling us openly they do not agree with how things are the others say the same but in a slightly more roundabout way ).

We used to help on school trips me especially when it came to history trips or museums. Many of these trips spent more time on coaches than actually at the venue ( Manchester museums being the exception due to proximity ).

I understand what you are saying re they are the rules right or wrong and should be observed but also if they detrimentally affect the family life by doing so then it is a strong argument to say no. This to the best of my knowledge was not in the manifesto it was not something they where elected to bring in.
The rule is not consistent it does not address the real problem it was brought in to solve. It is affecting family life because yes many can not ! afford to go away during school holidays and others can not get the time off work for both parents during this time.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
speed098 wrote:
@alti - dude, It is affecting family life because yes many can not ! afford to go away during school holidays and others can not get the time off work for both parents during this time.


Nobody has a divine right to go on a ski holiday during school holidays (or at anytiome for that matter).

If you can't afford it or can't get the time off then don't go. Tough on you.

Sometimes life isn't as we want it to be. Get over it.

I would like to fly my private jet into Courchevel 1850 to my 10 bed ski in-ski out chalet but as I can't afford it, it is affecting my family life. Tough on me.

I would not take my children out of school outwith holidays, but then again, maybe I value their education more than some.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I can't stand people complaining about how expensive ski holidays are. Yes, they aren't cheap but the market dictates the price. It's called free market economy/supply and demand. If nobody is willing to pay the price, it will drop, if the product sells out very quickly it will rise. That's why we often get late deals. Maybe you should wait until the last minute to see if you can do this too. YOU have the choice not to buy the holiday - nobody is forcing you otherwise.

Tour operators are like most other businesses in our economy, where they will try to get as much as they can for their product as they can, and I can't blame them for doing so.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 8-02-16 12:53; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

I would like to fly my private jet into Courchevel 1850


You can't do that even with lots of money, its chartered flights only I'm afraid. Very Happy
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
@JoyZipper,

That is a bit harsh. And incorrect - some people do indeed have a right to take children out of school for a family holiday. There are exemptions, for example parents in the armed services (in some circumstances) and actually quite a few others.

I do not believe you value education more than me, or the others here who regularly take their children out of school for a ski holiday. In my opinion, based on researching the issue and establishing the facts, it has no impact at all on their educational outcome.

On what is your opinion based? What facts and/or research can you point to? I would genuinely like to know.

And for the record I can well afford to take ski holidays at any time, and I am pretty much in charge of my own agenda. There are other reasons than cost and time that people do this, which you would do well to consider.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
JoyZipper wrote:


Nobody has a devine right to go on a ski holiday during school holidays



?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Quote:

based on researching the issue and establishing the facts



Lol, no you didn't.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
uktrailmonster wrote:
JoyZipper wrote:


Nobody has a devine right to go on a ski holiday during school holidays



?


Divine right. A simple typo.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
zikomo wrote:
@JoyZipper,

That is a bit harsh. And incorrect - some people do indeed have a right to take children out of school for a family holiday. There are exemptions, for example parents in the armed services (in some circumstances) and actually quite a few others.

I do not believe you value education more than me, or the others here who regularly take their children out of school for a ski holiday. In my opinion, based on researching the issue and establishing the facts, it has no impact at all on their educational outcome.

On what is your opinion based? What facts and/or research can you point to? I would genuinely like to know.

And for the record I can well afford to take ski holidays at any time, and I am pretty much in charge of my own agenda. There are other reasons than cost and time that people do this, which you would do well to consider.


My opinion is based on the people who are in charge of my children's education - they are far more knowledgeable on this subject matter than I am.

You are more than welcome to your own opinion.

If you can afford it then just go away during the school holidays and then your child has all of the classroom learning AND the important extracurricular learning too. It seems like a win/win siuation to me. If you can't take the time off then don't go - this may come as a shock but the world doesn't revolve around you.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@swiftoid,

Not sure what you are saying or why, you have absolutely no basis on which to make this judgement. Interesting that all those who claim taking kids out of school for a week damages their education have not put forward one piece of research or fact to back it up. But they all state categorically that it is bad for children's education.

Oh - and of course I did. My children are in a private school, for which I pay a great deal of money. The reason I point that out is to indicate how much I value education, it would be very odd indeed to make that choice but then not take a great deal of care to ensure they had the best educational outcome possible. So of course I researched the facts to establish what influences that educational outcome, and also researched extensively to find the right school . I am simply suggesting that others should also research the issue, establish the facts, analyse them, then make their best judgement. As opposed to sending them to the local school, just hoping for the best, taking as read anything that the government suggests must be the best for THEIR children,and criticising those who choose to take responsibility for finding out how best to get the best education for their children.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
zikomo wrote:
@swiftoid,

As opposed to sending them to the local school, just hoping for the best, taking as read anything that the government suggests must be the best for THEIR children,and criticising those who choose to take responsibility for finding out how best to get the best education for their children.


That's a very broad brush and I'm not quite sure who it's aimed at. It can't be me as I'm in the same boat as you with my schooling. rolling eyes

When I hear of children being taken out of school for a ski holiday my initial reaction is that the parents are being selfish. They don't see it that way as they always have excuses.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 8-02-16 13:17; edited 1 time in total
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