 Poster: A snowHead
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Are you for real @davidof? In the comment three above yours David is chastising @Teacher for the rubbishing of a named person, is that what socks do?
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looks like Billynotaboy and I also posted at the same time. 321 - who is going to accuse he and I of being an item?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Malaise Meleze wrote: |
| looks like Billynotaboy and I also posted at the same time. 321 - who is going to accuse he and I of being an item? |
I'm loving the Ted Rogers take on things here!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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who is going to accuse he and I of being an item?
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no member of the grammar police, that's for sure
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Malaise Meleze wrote: |
| Quote: |
Are you for real @davidof? In the comment three above yours David is chastising @Teacher for the rubbishing of a named person, is that what socks do?
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looks like Billynotaboy and I also posted at the same time. 321 - who is going to accuse he and I of being an item? |
Didn't know people still spoke like that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Are you thinking that David Goldsmith, Teacher and Malaise Mélèze are one and the same then? It certainly seems to be a right little circle jerk between those guys. |
Are you for real @davidof? In the comment three above yours David is chastising @Teacher for the rubbishing of a named person, is that what socks do? |
Seems to play into David's agenda perfectly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@davidof, I am just one person, i have been a BASI member for 17 years now, if someone like Andy Lockerbie wants to be CEO then he has put himself in the line of fire for making the agreement to rubbish the lower levels of BASI, level 1's & 2's put money in the bank for BASI and when he signed all their rights away he now has to take the heat, he even invited the head of ESF Megeve to a BASI meeting, he owns a part share in BASS Megeve then tries to close down his main competition in Megeve, BASI is an association run by it's members for it's members not a machine for personal gain.
I hope Simon Butler wins his case against BASI and the CEO has to resign because of it, it's about time the members knew the truth.
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@davidof,
Is number 5 Tim Brown?
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| Teacher wrote: |
| ... he has put himself in the line of fire for making the agreement to rubbish the lower levels of BASI, level 1's & 2's put money in the bank for BASI and when he signed all their rights away ... |
@Teacher, could you explain how he has rubbish[ed] the lower levels of BASI and signed all their rights away
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@billy not a boy, Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Satolas Need i say anymore.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You might have to explain what you mean @Teacher, not everyone on here is a BASI member.
I happen to be a member, and I have read the Satolas agreement several times. I would like you to confirm what it is exactly that you are referring to though because I think you might not have it quite right.
I believe you are referencing the part that says (something along the lines of) BASI will not recognize at a European level any other Diploma; this is not selling out lower levels and does not refer to lower levels, it is only talking about the recognition of Diploma other than the ISTD. BASI L1, L2, and L3 are not Diplomas.
The agreement is a failing in that in it BASI agrees to not take or support any further court action, but there is no mention in that agreement of lower levels.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 21-05-15 22:21; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| musher wrote: |
@davidof,
Is number 5 Tim Brown? |
Maybe this is Tim's sock?
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You can just click on the link, it's very easy to read, you don't have to be a member to read the doc.
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You know it makes sense.
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Seems to play into David's agenda perfectly.
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Could you explain? I do not know this David's agenda of which you speak. I may talk funny and with poor grammar but I really haven't got the first clue what you are talking about. If I have (unknowingly) become part of creating an agenda, perhaps you could tell me? It's all a bit mysterious.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I no longer have the first clue what ANYONE'S talking about. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Let me clue you in, at a rough guess 6500 members in BASI, the new CEO is protecting the rights of only 350 of those members and signed away the rights to all the others, the old acting CEO took Simon Butlers MOU away without telling him, now Simon is suing BASI for £500,000, BASI is a members association, HOW dare they treat one of it's members so badly, the rest of the membership should be up in arms but they have believed BASI's lies for all these years.
I personally feel and i don't really care what people think because it makes me so angry that this could happen within our own .association that criminal charges should be bought against these individuals, they sold Simon out to the FRENCH.
Feel free to sue me for my thoughts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Teacher, Well said.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Prediction: davidof will shortly tell everyone he's another one of my socks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Teacher wrote: |
| and signed away the rights to all the others |
That is the bit I'm not getting ... how? Could you explain that for me please?
I agree whole heartedly that SB has been hung out and it looks to me as if there is something personal going on there, I agree that BASI appears to be only concerned with raking in the cash from the lower levels and only supporting the ISTDs (in France at least), but I don't understand your claims that the current CEO has signed away the rights to all the others.
Not supporting someone is not the same as signing away their rights.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Teacher wrote: |
| ... they have believed BASI's lies for all these years. |
The reason that this has happened is of course because it is their (the members') association, and it is only natural that we believed what we have been told.
One only looks deeper when circumstance dictates that one should; so it is not really much of a surprise that the membership has believed what they have been told by an association which is supposed to be working on their behalf.
What I find quite incredible is that in the face of the current situation, many members are STILL not looking deeper, and are STILL accepting on face value that the Board and the Executive are acting in their (the members') best interests.
I understand that many (if not all) of the ISTDs working in France do not want to rock the boat because they are quite comfortable with the way things are, they might see it as "well I had to do it, so why shouldn't you?" and they most certainly don't want to learn that all of the money which they have invested in furthering their qualifications to enable them to work in France was needless.
I also find it quite amazing that those same ISTDs keep on saying "you only have to do the TT" or "you only have to do the ET", without recognising (even after it being pointed out to them an copious occasions) that such action is actually embarking upon the French qualification pathway, and is not recognising their own qualifications gained through the BASI.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 22-05-15 9:12; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| Are you for real @davidof? In the comment three above yours David is chastising @Teacher for the rubbishing of a named person, is that what socks do? |
Oh yes. Frequently.
Not that I'm saying they are socks in this instance.
Anybody who is bothered about this should stop reading forums. It's what happens. Get used to it or stop reading.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| What I find quite incredulous |
<pedant>You are incredulous about something that is incredible.</pedant>
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Anybody who is bothered about this should stop reading forums. It's what happens. Get used to it or stop reading.
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yes perhaps your are right - maybe everyone should all just man up?
Or maybe it is just plain old bullying?
There was someone on here called TTT. Personally - I did not like what she said, or how she/he said things, at all. But I still agreed with those who noticed how he/she was bullied away. I spoke out in her/his defence at the time despite fundamental disagreements with TTTs statements.
For bullies to exist, you need a bully, a victim and a bystander who says or does nothing.
All this sock calling may just be what is normal forum banter around here, or it may be that bullying occurs. Something to consider maybe?
The topic of this thread is complicated. The supply of strong opinions - some from newcomers - is probably not going to dry up. TTT or another will come back in some form, soon, to argue back. Also something to consider.
Maybe some enjoy watching/doing the sock calling for a bit of baiting in the meantime?
But maybe you are scaring away posters (who perhaps do not have any other forum like this to post on).
Or maybe you actively want them all to go away? A sort of passive censorship?
You don't have to care about these things of course either. But that's my feedback.
It is all really to do with the subject of the thread, and whether you want to let it breathe at all.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 27-05-15 12:48; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Malaise Meleze wrote: |
Or maybe you actively want them all to go away? A sort of passive censorship? |
Passive censorship, just like BASI staff members being appointed 'admins' on BASI Face Book page.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| billy not a boy wrote: |
| What I find quite incredulous |
<pedant>You are incredulous about something that is incredible.</pedant> |
Point taken 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Passive censorship, just like BASI staff members being appointed 'admins' on BASI Face Book page. |
There's nothing passive about that Stewart
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Malaise Meleze wrote: |
| Quote: |
Anybody who is bothered about this should stop reading forums. It's what happens. Get used to it or stop reading.
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yes perhaps your are right - maybe everyone should all just man up?
Or maybe it is just plain old bullying?
There was someone on here called TTT. Personally - I did not like what she said, or how she/he said things, at all. But I still agreed with those who noticed how he/she was bullied away. I spoke out in her/his defence at the time despite fundamental disagreements with TTTs statements.
For bullies to exist, you need a bully, a victim and a bystander who says or does nothing.
All this sock calling may just be what is normal forum banter around here, or it may be that bullying occurs. Something to consider maybe?
The topic of this thread is complicated and very upsetting to many. The supply of strong opinions - some from newcomers - is probably not going to dry up. TTT or another will come back in some form, soon, to argue back. Also something to consider.
Maybe some enjoy watching/doing the sock calling for a bit of baiting in the meantime?
But maybe you are scaring away posters (who perhaps do not have any other forum like this to post on).
Or maybe you actively want them all to go away? A sort of passive censorship?
You don't have to care about these things of course either. But that's my feedback.
It is all really to do with the subject of the thread, and whether you want to let it breathe at all. |
TTT was both bully and bullied IMO.
I consider myself bullied by her. She'd twist what I said into something ridiculous, then ridicule me for saying something I never said. Not once but repeatedly. My only possible responses were either to get drawn into a never-ending repetitive dialogue or walk away and the latter is what I did.
I don't much approve of the way she was semi-outed either but I understand the frustration that led to it. It would have been better to suspend her account for a cooling off IMO.
The use of socks here is a pale imitation of what I've seen elsewhere, including the strange spectacle of people having slanging matches with themselves. In saying socks are a fact of life I'm pointing out the reality, not that I either approve or enjoy it. That said, some are evidently drawn to it like flies to smelly stuff. DG, who keeps complaining about anonymous posting, is a serial sock-puppet user and the forum software won't allow me to express what I think of that.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| DG, who keeps complaining about anonymous posting, is a serial sock-puppet user and the forum software won't allow me to express what I think of that. |
I complain about anonymous posting when it's used to abuse or lie, or to misrepresent or otherwise express attitude in bad faith. It's a misuse of anonymity, which is a perfectly legitimate action when concealment of identity is needed to protect the correspondent (e.g. in whistleblowing).
What's the problem with being a "serial sock-puppet user", when the puppeteer makes no secret of who's typing the sock's comments?
If you reveal your identity, dogwatch, you can start arguing with conviction and credibility.
DG
P.S. admin's got lots of socks - ask him about it!
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You know it makes sense.
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What's the point of being a "serial sock-puppet user", when the puppeteer makes no secret of who's typing the sock's comments?
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FIFY
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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"When the puppeteer makes no secret of who's typing the sock's comments? "
Spherical objects. I've been drawn into trolling by yourself when I had no idea who was posting until others pointed it out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Put it to admin ...
The first two registered users of this forum were "admin" (snowHeads member No. 1, registered 5 February 2004) ...
... and "u brain" (snowHeads member No. 2, registered 5 February 2004). Two names, same brain!
'Serial sock puppetry' has always been all the rage on this forum ... from day one.
admin - who's got more socks - you or me? !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Teacher wrote: |
... I am just one person, i have been a BASI member for 17 years now, if someone like Andy Lockerbie wants to be CEO then he has put himself in the line of fire for making the agreement to rubbish the lower levels of BASI, level 1's & 2's put money in the bank for BASI and when he signed all their rights away he now has to take the heat, he even invited the head of ESF Megeve to a BASI meeting, he owns a part share in BASS Megeve then tries to close down his main competition in Megeve, BASI is an association run by it's members for it's members not a machine for personal gain.
I hope Simon Butler wins his case against BASI and the CEO has to resign because of it, it's about time the members knew the truth. |
Spot on.
Thanks also for the reference to the "Satolas Protocol" (via that Facebook link). That is interesting - the actual dirty deal spelt out.
BASI appears here to be agreeing to:
(1) not oppose the ESF closed shop; and
(2) selectively enable some of their people to work in France whilst preventing others (eg SB).
I'd expect an instructors' organization to be fundamentally opposed to national closed shops; apparently BASI is not.
I'd be surprised if the second thing is legal under UK law, although proving that may be very expensive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@philwig You've got it in a nutshell.
The deal behind that agreement was that BASI were allowed to issue their snowboard top level instructors the ISTD in order for them to obtain the Carte Professional thus enabling them to work in France; however the SNMSF have now pulled out of the ISIA (partly) on the grounds that the BASI had illegally given out ISTD qualifications to snowboarders, who had no skiing experience at all (ISTD = International Ski Teacher's Diploma) ...
So effectively, the ESF (since they are the operating arm of SNMSF) have reneged on that Satolas agreement; which now leaves the BASI free to support those individuals who are fighting for their rights to instruct in France, and also for the BASI to recognise any other Diploma than the ISTD.
We can only consider the Satolas agreement in terms of history; what was done was done -I like to believe that at the time it seemed like the best option for the BASI- but now we can move forward since we have been released from said agreement.
Sadly (and this is where I find myself in agreement with @Teacher), I cannot foresee the board and the executive in its current form doing the right thing. The current CEO has too much concern about the business and has forgotten what the BASI actually is, so in this respect I agree 100% that he is quite possibly the worst CEO we could have employed.
There are claims of fairness during the appointment process, however, I do suspect a shoe-in.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| There are claims of fairness during the appointment process, however, I do suspect a shoe-in. |
I was a part of the appointment process, the section panel, and for that part of the process at least there was no shoe-in. There was not a pre-determined outcome, and with a wider set of candidates a different appointment might have been made. But the section panel could only draw from the candidates who had applied, and took every care to recommend to the Board the candidate with the best skills for the job. You might not like the outcome, which is obviously your prerogative, but to suggest there was some kind of fix to bring in a favoured candidate is wide of the mark.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In my mind ... yes. But it's all just my word against your word in such a debate in the absence of evidence.
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So now we have some shoes to go with our socks. What's next?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| billy not a boy wrote: |
| In my mind ... yes. But it's all just my word against your word in such a debate in the absence of evidence. |
Of course, but unless you were on the selection panel with me and the other members I think it is difficult for you to make a valid conclusion about the truth of my statement, or the process which led to the appointment. Obviously there needs to be a degree of confidentiality about any recruitment process, in the interests of all the candidates as well as the appointee.
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@billy not a boy,
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just my word against your word
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But were you part of the selection process, as@rob@rar was? I'd argue that his word is pretty strong, unless you're accusing him of being part of the 'fix'. Unlikely imv, but then perhaps I'm biased, because I know and respect him.
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FAQ
