 Poster: A snowHead
|
@TTT, maybe I should have said <especially> if you don't live in the Alps.
If you have spent any time at all watching them, even amongst Alpine ski clubs there are huge variances.
And good club skier is not ET standard. It's a ridiculously high bar to set for someone who simply wants to teach non-specialised recreational skiing.
Anyway, I'm out of here.  life's too precious as is my time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@TTT, maybe I should have said <especially> if you don't live in the Alps.
If you have spent any time at all watching them, even amongst Alpine ski clubs there are huge variances.
And good club skier is not ET standard. It's a ridiculously high bar to set for someone who simply wants to teach non-specialised recreational skiing.
Anyway, I'm out of here. life's too precious as is my time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
under a new name, Is the club in Chamonix really that bad ? How much time do you spend skiing with them ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| speed098 wrote: |
[
So as an objective test this can be done visually no need to put a clock to it after all if it is about std of skiing better to pass someone who is technically correct than someone who is out of balance almost falls during the course and at the end loses control and crashes potentially into someone else ( or is that your view of a good club skier)?). |
You won't pass the TT or ET without being a technically a good skier. Your scenario of some chancer pitching up and winging it, like in some Holywood movie, is just not credible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@speed098, the directive is about professional qualifications - doctors, nurses, midwives, pharmacists and architects are the qualifications that it specifically mentions so it is people with this level of training that we are referring to that are covered by the directive not lower levels. It becomes clear at this point that people arguing the SB case have not actually read the directive hence they don't actually understand the argument!
I know plenty of tidy basi trained skiers who would just not be credible to the holiday skiers I ski with as they could not keep up with them. A speed test is credible and you can't blag gates with a dodgy out of balance technique. It is the level that you need to be at to be credible in an alpine country. It is the entry level in Italy. Whether you need it to teach someone to snow plough is a stretch but it was an ex racer who took me back to the nursery slopes who taught me how to ski properly after previously having tried lower level instructors. I have seen national teams start with some snow ploughs and they looked very good to me!
The position I express on here are the official views of basi and the french. It is SB and his supporters who are in the minority. I get plenty of private messages of support. They just don't want to engage in the debate. The recent vote of basi was clear. They voted for an ET opener to represent them. You need to be credible yourself if the other side are going to take you seriously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@rjs, 
@davidof, indeed
There is some reality out there!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @speed098, The recent vote of basi was clear. They voted for an ET opener to represent them. |
You're joking right? You are so completely out of touch with reality that it hurts.
In one post you claim to not like skiing in France and in the next you tell us how much time you spend "skiing with the locals", in another you state that you hdrink beer with SB instructors -this is pretty impossible if you don't ski in France!
You lie, twist your story, make bold claims without anything to back them up ... Troll, not worthy of the discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| davidof wrote: |
| speed098 wrote: |
[
So as an objective test this can be done visually no need to put a clock to it after all if it is about std of skiing better to pass someone who is technically correct than someone who is out of balance almost falls during the course and at the end loses control and crashes potentially into someone else ( or is that your view of a good club skier)?). |
You won't pass the TT or ET without being a technically a good skier. Your scenario of some chancer pitching up and winging it, like in some Holywood movie, is just not credible. |
Never said they were not a good skier but just that someone who could be technically a much better skier and not as aggressive/fearless would keep failing the test yet someone who pushes beyond their ability because they are fearless and yes could crash out at the end could pass. The point is the test is not reflective of an instructors ability to teach beginners and even intermediates. I do as I have said numerous times concede that it is 100% relevant for race coaching and has a lot of value for teaching advanced skiers.
If an instructor/trainer can not spot the difference between two skiers at this level and be able to see if one is skiing with almost perfect technique and one is not then there is a bigger issue than how fast someone is.
If a BASI L3 can not keep up with an intermediate I suggest BASI should re-evaluate their training (but then a L3 will easily out ski any intermediate so no need).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I know some on here may struggle with the concept but there are other alpine countries to ski in other than France and associates of SB are known to ski in them you troll! I have to be very careful what I reveal here but you know so little about what I know it is just hilarious. Thanks. Ski instructing is a small world that stretches across borders. I suspect Dunk does know as he appears to have heard some of the same stories as me. You are just trolling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@speed098, I see beginners and intermediates benefit as well. Again, hilarious if only you knew. Thanks.
Level 3 is where it gets debatable about where you draw the line as I've repeatedly said. But big but not covered by the EU directive where the MOU is the best interpretation of the directive we currently have which only covers the top level. Lower levels are covered by local regulation and the EU has stated that the French have the right to local regulations Again it is very clear that people have not read the directive, the EU statements or the basi statements on this matter so they are arguing from gut feel without actually knowing what the argument actually is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
I know some on here may struggle with the concept but there are other alpine countries to ski in other than France and associates of SB are known to ski in them you troll!
|
No one struggles with that concept, some , me certainly struggle with the concept that you live in France, don't ski in France, do socialise with other SB instructors, know seemingly so much about this case yet don't care or have no skin in the game as you so often like to say, did I say you live in France and ski in Austria all the time again... Liar Liar arsË is on fire.
I just want to add I care not a jot about SB or the BASI case to be honest, I just think you are a total lying F***er TTT
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
[quote="speed098"]
| davidof wrote: |
| The point is the test is not reflective of an instructors ability to teach beginners and even intermediates. I do as I have said numerous times concede that it is 100% relevant for race coaching and has a lot of value for teaching advanced skiers.. |
One could conceive other tests. Watching paint dry without losing concentration. Watching a 90C white wash without dosing off. Skiing a blue piste, backwards at 2km/h.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@geeo, I've have never said where I live. It is others who have said that. I have never said I socialise with SB instructors. So the accusation that I'm a liar is based on er lies
OK honestly which ones of you that disagree with me have actually read the entirety of the EU directive, the derogation, the MOU, the EU statements on the matter and the basi statements on the matter? Some of you have read selected parts of some documents I'm sure but not all of it very clearly. It was a very slow day and was professionally relevant otherwise there was no way I would have done it so I doubt that anyone who disagrees with me has actually read the relevant documentation. If you haven't read all the documentation then you are disagreeing with me without actually knowing what you are talking about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| .....If you haven't read all the documentation then you are disagreeing with me without actually knowing what you are talking about. |
That is fully within the finest tradition of snowheads, and so wholly acceptable. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| TTT wrote: |
@under a new name, but it is a good club skier in the alps though! Skiing with locals and colleagues is a very very humbling experience. To claim to be a ski instructor in their company would be very embarrassing and just not credible!
|
No it wouldn't. Very few alpine locals think very much about ski instructors, and even less consider being one impressive - it's not something you need to be a good skier to do, because 90% of them (or more) teach tourists to do parallel turns on red runs. When you're working with high level skiers you're coaching rather than instructing.
Besides, there are plenty of alpine locals in this part of the Alps who are terrible skiers (because they're snowboarders at heart, in some examples).
You can be a ski instructor in this part of the Alps without doing the Eurotest (Landeslehrer is still quite an achievement). I can't think of any reason why teaching French people in France is harder, so I can't see any reason why a Landeslehrer or BASI 3 shouldn't be able to do it.
Someone teaching people to drive standard road cars at road legal speeds doesn't need to be able to race high performance cars around specially built tracks. There's driving, and there's racing. Just like there's skiing, and there's racing.
Setting a freestyle test where you have to demonstrate cork 7s or a freeride test where you have to get within 10% of the points an FWT competitor would achieve to able to teach skiing would be ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as the ET.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
@geeo, I've have never said where I live. It is others who have said that. I have never said I socialise with SB instructors. So the accusation that I'm a liar is based on er lies
|
Please explain this reply to PamW last week then, who exactly do you mean you ski and go for beers with if not some SB mob? is it the French people in general, SB himself? or the Brit SH mob or BASI
| Quote: |
TTT
hors Piste
Posts: 1079
@speed098, I am not insulting level one and twos at all! I ski with them. Just pointing out the reality as they all know and every trainer I've ever spoken to knows. They share the same view but are all realistic about their abilities and would like to be better. All the ones I know are very humble about their skiing and instructing ability: That is why they pay for top quality instruction. That is in your imagination. I understand that you have had difficulties with organisations and distrust them: BASI have been absolutely fine in all my dealings with them.
@pam w, you are right it is a Brit SH mob! They do seem to froth at the mouth at the mention of BASI or the French! All my dealings with BASI and the French have been absolutely fine. They are humans. They just don't seen to be open to actually reading the law or understanding the BASI or French position. It makes you wonder when they see no SB evil, hear no SB evil, speak no SB evil. It is a lot more complicated than that. If it is just one old level 1 that has a problem then surely you have to ask why does this one person have a problem when no one else did? When he gets involed in repeated court cases with the French and BASI you have to suspect that some of it might just be down to him or are Brits above French law?
snow report Sun 03 May, 15
20:31 Reply with quote
pam w
super-snowHead
Posts: 44757
Location: le Beaufortain, France or Chichester Harbour
Quote:
I really don't get the obession with SB
Puzzled You're the one who accused everyone who disagrees with you of being part of an "SB mob". I've never met the man and never seen his Facebook page.
And I have no downer on the French, either. Indeed I am frequently accused of the opposite, on this forum. I have an apartment in France and speak a fair bit of French - would describe myself as a Francophile. But that doesn't mean I think they are always right about everything. I have no "downer" on civil servants (I was one) but that doesn't mean I didn't frequently take issue with some quite senior ones or would suggest they are always right.
I am sure BASI does some great work and has some great members. This is all rather sad.
TTT
hors Piste
Posts: 1079
@pam w, I ski and drink with some of them! There are some "interesting " characters on FB though and there are a few on here that would fit in with them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
geeo don't waste your time on TTT it's clearly a troll account, almost every post is full of contradiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Ski and beers with a former SB customer and I know others associated with or who know SB Never socialised with his instructors. As said before ski instructing world is very small so I know people who know SB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@clarky999, fully familiar with the system in Austria, thanks. We are talking about the SB legal cases. As I keep saying ad nauseum there is a difference between the laws and regulations and what people think should be in practice. 2 different things which people are so emotional about that they struggle to seperate in their mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@billy not a boy, er - what are you doing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| Ski and beers with a former SB customer and I know others associated with or who know SB Never socialised with his instructors. As said before ski instructing world is very small so I know people who know SB. |
Hearsay / scuttlebutt. Cognitive bias anyone?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 10-05-15 21:07; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
....but you're sick of the whole "scene" so why are you prolonging your pain?
(and there's me thinking that one of the great things about skiing is that you're not beholden to a "scene" so you can go and do your own thing)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@laundryman, he is in the SB camp so no reason to doubt the stories he told me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
there's not a monopoly on knowing things, knowing laws, and knowing people that know someone.
yes I have been involved with (a) creating of new laws, and (b) amending those new laws since those that vote them in to law always have the last say in boogering up what the experts had agreed.
popcorn stock price is thru the roof.
I know things. But I'm not going to let on what (edit: and whom) I know either 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 10-05-15 21:14; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, there is no pain - there is a serious side to this but there is also an amusing side to this
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@andy, absolutely not - just not the people arguing with me. There are serious matters which are not appropriate to reveal on social media. 2 sides.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @laundryman, he is in the SB camp so no reason to doubt the stories he told me. |
Some of us have going there for years and know hundreds of customers. You know one. Might I suggest you read up on cognitive bias?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@laundryman, I know a lot more than one person who knows SB and the stories I have been told are consistent with their comments and behaviour. I suspect Dunk could also confirm as he has already confirmed some of the stuff I have alluded to on here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| @billy not a boy, er - what are you doing? |
I'm eating an Indian takeaway and watching a movie. What's the relevance?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@laundryman, I hear the food is really good or are you saying that this SB customer was lying to me?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@TTT, I'm saying you have extrapolated from limited, second-hand information, to give you the answer you wanted. It's call cognitive bias. You should read up on it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@TTT,
| Quote: |
Again it is very clear that people have not read the directive, the EU statements or the basi statements on this matter so they are arguing from gut feel without actually knowing what the argument actually is.
|
Could you explain this paragraph from the directive and how we are, according to you, not understanding it correctly.
I think its stating that if you hold a qualification immediately below that of the host nation (France) then you must be accepted.
(a) they shall attest a level of professional qualification at leastequivalent to the level immediately prior to that which is required in the host Member State, as described in
Article 11.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@laundryman, so you are saying the food is not good? I know it is not evidence. He is an SB customer. He was saying good things and some other things. He has no axe to grind. He was very factual and was very clear on what he had seen and what was just speculation on his part. It was all very matter of fact. I have seen the stuff that they have posted on FB. I have seen the videos. That is first hand. And then Dunk confirmed some other things. It fits but I do not know if the stories I have heard are true or not but I have no reason to doubt them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Poleplant, that is one isolated quote. You have to read the whole document and the derogation which still applies so I would agree as the rules previously stood if someone had level 3 and ET they could have probably worked independently. . Also that is an old version of the directive that does not apply going forward. The new version does not include reference to level below. . Also SB was also using level 2s. Sorry but that is just another example which proves my point about limited selected reading.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@TTT,
This directive is still in force till Jan 16th and was in force when these instructors were arrested, and totally ignored by the French.
As for level 2's this paragraph from article 13 -
Access to and pursuit of the profession, as described in paragraph 1, shall also be granted to applicants who have pursued the profession referred to in that paragraph on a fulltime basis for two years during the previous 10 years in another Member State which does not regulate that profession, providing they possess one or more attestations of competence or documents providing evidence of formal qualifications.
I've more (isolated) quotes, but that should be enough!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| TTT wrote: |
| I have to be very careful what I reveal here but you know so little about what I know it is just hilarious. |
It certainly is hilarious. You forgot the "Nah, nah, na, nah, nah".
Are you 12? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@maggi, I was about to quote that bit; absolutely classic. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That was my favourite bit too! Actually, it's so ridiculous, I thought he might be having a laugh at everyone's expense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Hurtle,
Are you in the "he" camp then?
He/she/it is so contrary I thought it must be female (or possibly a laundryman sock) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@musher, heaven knows and s/he will probably not admit to gender any more than to nationality, profession (goodness, I'm bored with that bit of coyness) or place of residence.
I'm certain that laundryman has better things to do with his time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
