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BASI sued for £500 000

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Fake email?
I suggest speaking to the addressee Alex Garioch, get the original email, look at its headers and see where it came from.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@SkiPresto, who are BASIL's solicitors? Does Alex Garioch work for them?
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aside form all the legal terms, defamation bla bla, Don is a grassing Fitzwilliam, grassed one of his own members up, what a turd burgler!
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This I assume is the Alex Garioch in question: http://gilsongray.co.uk/team/alex-garioch-solicitor-advocate-partner-litigation-and-dispute-resolution/

So it was an email to a BASI lawyer at the same time Mr Butler announced he was suing BASI for £500k.
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@Pruman, it looks like he was with Morisons LLP at the time.

Quote:
“The Association is currently defending a court action brought against it by a member. This action
incorporates a claim for damages. The Association have received advice from Senior Counsel that their
defence to this action is well founded. Further the damages aspect of the claim, as presented as at the date
these accounts are signed, appears arithmetically incorrect and further, is unsubstantiated and un-vouched.
Given the existence of this court action it would be inappropriate to comment on matters in detail but we can
reference the following aspects of this damages claim.

The claim exceeds £500,000 and is in respect of loss of income from teaching. It is asserted the member’s
loss started to accrue from February 2014 onwards (ie circa 18 months ago), that his average annual income
for the 3 year period prior to February 2014 was £145,000, and that this dropped to £45,000 per year
following February 2014. The Association are surprised as to the level of income it is claimed was being
achieved prior to February 2014 and in any event the basis of calculation is not at all clear. “ Partner. Alex
Garioch. Morisons LLP
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The issue is two fold, one is a question around the intention of the author of the correspondence at the time it was written the other around the intention of its publication in the public domain. This is all so horribly vindictive, why dont BASI just leave it alone until the Court hearing. Interestingly enough Mr Bates does not actually say that SB was in fact teaching at the relevant time rather that he was leading a group of "clients". How does Mr Bates know, it could have been a group of pals, Simon takes a nice line and it could be a joy to follow his wiggles and turns across the mountain at a reasonable speed - lots of fun. I would also ask by Mr Bates was wearing a red ESF outfit as he says he was, is he an ESF instructor? Perhaps he is.
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@FFIRMIN, yes he is an ESF instructor (with grandfather rights, I believe).
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@FFIRMIN, IIRC he was previously employed by Simon Butler as an instructor.
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The other thing which occurs to me is that I am surprised that Mr Garioch as a practising solicitor published a commentary on the legal case which is ongoing. I would have thought the usual comment "no comment" would have been more appropriate.
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FFIRMIN wrote:
The other thing which occurs to me is that I am surprised that Mr Garioch as a practising solicitor published a commentary on the legal case which is ongoing. I would have thought the usual comment "no comment" would have been more appropriate.


Are things maybe a bit different in wee Scotland?
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Gaza wrote:
@FFIRMIN, IIRC he was previously employed by Simon Butler as an instructor.

I don't believe that is the case. A previous employee did made a similar complaint at about the same time, naming me. Apparently he thought that me being seen in Simon Butler's car, a couple of miles from any ski lift, was a BASI disciplinary matter. As it happened, I wasn't even in France at the time! The current BASI CEO and ex-BASS Megève kingpin, Andrew Lockerbie, also made a disciplinary complaint, also involving me, though not mentioning me by name. I was skiing socially with Simon at the time he saw us, on the long, thin, boring home run at Les Contamines. Simon and I stopped to attend and make safe an injured skier who lost control on ice. Lockerbie skied on by. I presume BASI were given some sensible legal advice which led to them dropping disciplinary action that had been based on these ridiculous complaints.
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laundryman wrote:
Gaza wrote:
@FFIRMIN, IIRC he was previously employed by Simon Butler as an instructor.

I don't believe that is the case. A previous employee did made a similar complaint at about the same time, naming me. Apparently he thought that me being seen in Simon Butler's car, a couple of miles from any ski lift, was a BASI disciplinary matter. As it happened, I wasn't even in France at the time! The current BASI CEO and ex-BASS Megève kingpin, Andrew Lockerbie, also made a disciplinary complaint, also involving me, though not mentioning me by name. I was skiing socially with Simon at the time he saw us, on the long, thin, boring home run at Les Contamines. Simon and I stopped to attend and make safe an injured skier who lost control on ice. Lockerbie skied on by. I presume BASI were given some sensible legal advice which led to them dropping disciplinary action that had been based on these ridiculous complaints.


It really does come across as being all about revenge and money. Do you think SB also being from England might have something to do with it?
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@laundryman It was these posts earlier in this thread that made me believe that Don Bates worked for SB. If they are not referring to DB, who are they referring to?

billy not a boy wrote:
Teacher wrote:
it's amazing how two faced some people are and who is just a treacherous disgusting creature who will get named unless he comes out and explains why he did this to Simon Butler after working for him for so long.


Are you saying that one of SB's own previous employees was responsible for reporting him to BASI for teaching in France last season?


unreal wrote:
Quote:

Are you saying that one of SB's own previous employees was responsible for reporting him to BASI for teaching in France last season?


That is the rumour and supposedly he was teaching adults not his kids on the day in question. Quite sad really that two current board members and a previous employee would shop him..


Teacher wrote:
So, the EX employee from Simon Butler Skiing you have until Friday morning to explain why you wrote to the disciplinary board at Basi after everything that Simon Butler did for you over the years.
Every Basi member will be disgusted to know who it is and your motives behind it.
DISGUSTED.


Teacher wrote:
Jimd wrote:
He will be lucky to get his 30 pieces of silver from BASI, but I did hear a rumour that he allegedly passed a course he hasn't been able to pass previously. I doubt he will get his legal bills paid by SB in future though.


So this is how it works now is it, you do Basi a favour and they pass you through an exam that because you are so unbelievably over weight you would never stand a hope in hells chance of passing on your own merit.

I'm still in absolute shock that this piece of poo-poo could do this to someone (i.e) Simon Butler after everything that he has done for him.

Karma will get you in the end.
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@Gaza, Philip May (I imagine - he's the one who named me).
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You really couldn't make this up. Shocking.
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@laundryman, so more one person grassed him up? Shocked Shocked Shocked
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@Gaza, yes, three people. But the two complaints involving me were laughable, and Bates's also (if displayed correctly on FaceBook).
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@Gerry, I think the pursuit of SB is not to do with Englishness or Britishness per se. It has to do with the French instructor syndicate's horror at the idea of foreign tour operators employing their own instructors (or guides or hosts, etc). So they pretend there is a safety issue which is fixed by having instructors ski GS courses at times that are infeasible for most people not brought up in the mountains. Then they give grandfather rights to selected foreigners in return for foreign syndicates like BASI going along with their scheme. Thus BASI bigwigs have a protected market in native English tuition and interminable training courses for would-be instructors. SB is not really the issue; they could all tolerate a small operation in one resort. But they have to intimidate others by court action into not replicating the business model and issue streams of obfuscation to confuse the masses. All in my opinion of course, but the facts are consistent with that theory.
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I don't follow how that email (apparently to the Association lawyer from Don Bates) entered the public domain.
In whose interest was that?

I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +
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SkiPresto wrote:


I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +


Do you speak for all members?
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SkiPresto wrote:
I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +


Puzzled Puzzled Puzzled

Do you really think SB cares is a subset of the membership are unhappy with him? If he believes he has a case then it will be the furthest thing from his mind. If he wins I suspect the majority of "other members" will be very pissed off with the board rather than with SB.
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Gaza wrote:
SkiPresto wrote:
I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +


Puzzled Puzzled Puzzled

Do you really think SB cares is a subset of the membership are unhappy with him? If he believes he has a case then it will be the furthest thing from his mind. If he wins I suspect the majority of "other members" will be very pissed off with the board rather than with SB.


Yeah, and the sleepy membership should have a look at itself as well.
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Gerry wrote:
SkiPresto wrote:


I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +


Do you speak for all members?

No. +I don't understand why you would ask that question.
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SkiPresto wrote:
I don't understand why you would ask that question.
I think the use of the word "us" might be why the question was asked. Sort of implies a divided association into us (everyone except SB) and them (SB).
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rob@rar wrote:
SkiPresto wrote:
I don't understand why you would ask that question.
I think the use of the word "us" might be why the question was asked. Sort of implies a divided association into us (everyone except SB) and them (SB).


Exactly.

SkiPresto, if SB wins, how will you regard him?
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SkiPresto wrote:
I don't follow how that email (apparently to the Association lawyer from Don Bates) entered the public domain.
In whose interest was that?

I also don't understand how someone who intends to remain a member of the Association, expects to get on with the other members after suing us for £500K +


I don't understand someone coming out with the above comment. Are you in support of board members who have shown they are complete and total imbeciles, are against supporting the members who by their subscription to BASI and taking BASI courses have a right ! to demand fair representation?

I just wish the members would hold an EGM and oust these delinquents from the society.That is the first and most pressing needs for the society to move on and recover from the stupidity of these petty minded vindictive imbeciles who took the action to remove SB from BASI.


And yes the imbeciles who are responsible for ousting SB at the AGM I am calling you on your professional ability as board members, Your stupidity and vindictiveness at doing this so please send a copy of this to your solicitors. You had plenty of warning by me on here you would loose the case re SB, and how you refused him the right to represent himself at a disciplinary and how any result needs to be in writing dated and signed.

You had a duty of care to conduct matters in a professional manner you did not and you deserve to be thrown out of BASI and loose your BASI qualifications. I just hope no other instructor body will permit you to join because when your careers lie in tatters look back at how pathetic you are.



There are fantastic instructors within BASI in their professional attitude, their knowledge and personality they deserve a lot better than what those involved above have provided. They deserve worldwide recognition for their hard work, as do all instructors.
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Gerry wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
SkiPresto wrote:
I don't understand why you would ask that question.
I think the use of the word "us" might be why the question was asked. Sort of implies a divided association into us (everyone except SB) and them (SB).


Exactly.

SkiPresto, if SB wins, how will you regard him?


Let me get this correct: SB is suing the entire Association. Including himself. He's suing every one of us. It isn't "Us and Them", it's SB against BASI. That is the entire membership. Not just the people who disagree with him.
It doesn't matter who you agree with. Sometimes, I find myself agreeing with his point of view for a minute or two. If he wins, it's going to be a big loss for all, and some more than others.

If there is a division amongst us, let me suggest that there might be the aforementioned "sleepy membership" and the approximately 1000 members (I'll check) actively trying to pass L3 and L4.
If BASI does have to fold in the face of bankruptcy, I'd estimate the loss of partial qualifications i.e. modules gained towards L3 and L4 to be about £25,000 per person, if you include accommodation.
That by my reckoning would be £25 Million lost forever. Unless the Irish association sweeps up the remnants.
Isn't that the reality?
The current BASI board is hardly responsible for the historical legal over-confidence against SB. The Membership wouldn't blame the current and future board members.
Maybe they wouldn't blame SB either.
We'll have a good "craic" in the hostelries of Dublin at the Irish Association of Snowsport Instructors AGM.
Come on, SB, they'll cry: Down it in one! Old Boy.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@SkiPresto, Why are BASIL going to go Bust? They keep telling us that the insurance will cover any payout?
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stewart woodward wrote:
@SkiPresto, Why are BASIL going to go Bust? They keep telling us that the insurance will cover any payout?

Hi Stewart: So have you got your IASI membership application form handy? Happy I bet you know a few who have applied.
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SkiPresto wrote:
So have you got your IASI membership application form handy? Happy I bet you know a few who have applied.


I have a few friends who are already members. I think you skied with one of them a few weeks ago?
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@SkiPresto, it's a bad situation all round, and while no doubt there's long history I think the current leadership of the Association have responsibility for taking the final steps in the last couple of years which led to legal action. In one sense I think the SB case is unique to him and I don't have much interest in it, although I hope that an outcome is reached which the majority of members of the association think is fair and reasonable. But I think the whole sad situation reflects a broader issue which affects all members, and that is the extent to which priorities of members below L4 are being actively addressed. In this regard I think there are serious problems, but sadly I don't see much effort being made to change this.

As for going bankrupt, as Stewart points out, the Board has said that it has legal insurance. Do you think they are wrong to say this?


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 12-01-16 21:24; edited 1 time in total
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SkiPresto wrote:
stewart woodward wrote:
@SkiPresto, Why are BASIL going to go Bust? They keep telling us that the insurance will cover any payout?

Hi Stewart: So have you got your IASI membership application form handy? Happy I bet you know a few who have applied.
Plenty of BASI qualified instructors (and Trainers) have dual or multiple associations they are members of. Isn't that a good thing, promoting better exchange of ideas about skiing and teaching? Why should we have walls between our associations, and petty tribalism holding back the profession?
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@SkiPresto,

If you truly believe BASI could go bust then call for an EGM oust those responsible from the society.

This would I hope show a judge the members should not face financial penalty. You would stand a greater chance of lessening the award so as to ensure BASI continues, because a judge would have to consider the actions taken by the members as at the very least a start in ensuring this does not happen again.

If it has been put in writing by the board they have insurance cover then subsequently it is found they do not there would be grounds for a class action lawsuit against the board also criminal action may be in order.
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@speed098, members' liability is either zero or it is limited to £1.
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rob@rar wrote:
@speed098, members' liability is either zero or it is limited to £1.

That's true. But it would only come to the invoice for the £1.00 each if the Association was to be closed down.
We'd still have to find a new home that would accept our modules.
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SkiPresto wrote:

We'd still have to find a new home that would accept our modules.


I wouldn't bet on Snowsport Scotland accepting any BASIL qualifications wink
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speed098 wrote:
@SkiPresto,

If you truly believe BASI could go bust then call for an EGM oust those responsible from the society.

This would I hope show a judge the members should not face financial penalty. You would stand a greater chance of lessening the award so as to ensure BASI continues, because a judge would have to consider the actions taken by the members as at the very least a start in ensuring this does not happen again.

If it has been put in writing by the board they have insurance cover then subsequently it is found they do not there would be grounds for a class action lawsuit against the board also criminal action may be in order.


Of course the Assoc has an insurance policy.
But the underwriters may well find that there are grounds not to pay up.
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SkiPresto wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
@speed098, members' liability is either zero or it is limited to £1.

That's true. But it would only come to the invoice for the £1.00 each if the Association was to be closed down.
We'd still have to find a new home that would accept our modules.


IF. And it is a massive IF, that were to occur, a "NewCo" would rise from the ashes. Just ask Rangers and Hearts supporters if they can tell the difference between pre and post liquidation (excluding the huns having to start again at the bottom of the league.)
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SkiPresto wrote:
But the underwriters may well find that there are grounds not to pay up.
In which case, why are the Board fighting this legal action?
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