 Poster: A snowHead
|
| mozwold wrote: |
Oh, so he was only the MD of company that killed one kid and maimed others, he wasn't personally responsible, that's ok then  |
The original claim was that required CRB checks hadn't been performed. Since (it appears) there were no personal criminal charges, that claim was spurious.
As for what happened at Wycombe where an inexperienced child hurtled down the main slope to fatal injury, I've seen an out of control teenager crash at speed into others at an indoor slope. That didn't cause injury but certainly could have done. I'm unconvinced that a similar incident couldn't happen elsewhere and I think "killed one kid" is rather hyperbolic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| dogwatch wrote: |
So it appears the convictions were against the company under the Health and Safety Act. No manslaughter and no personal charges.
Teacher, whoever you are, it seems to me your credibility has just evaporated. |
The victim should take legal action against teacher. Snowheads can assist in identifying teacher, if unwilling a court order can be issued. This kind of anonymous hit and run rubbish should stop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Teacher wrote: |
| I'm sure the parents paying their hard earned money would like to know that their instructor has a clean record just as you would expect a school teacher. |
Expect what you like, doesn't make it true.
A criminal conviction is not necessarily a bar to being a school teacher. Depends on the nature and circumstances of the offence, how long ago it was, and the behaviour of the individual since then. What sort of 'Teacher' are you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
This is a very dangerous thread. There are all sorts of allegations being made here which are not appropriately substantiated and could be libellous. There are also some curious statements. Surely a CRB check is not required from "Disclosure Scotland". CRB checks are carried out through a main data base previously called the Criminal Records Bureau and now I believe known as the Disclosure and Barring Service. Most criminal records become "spent" after a certain period of time dependent on the seriousness of the crime. Some professioins require members to declare even "spent" convictions but they will waive disbarment if the type of "crime" does not tend to affect the role the individual is to carry out. For example in the financial services professions a previous conviction for, say, a drugs offence (using) when an individual was young will not generally prevent them being employed in the industry whereas any conviction which tends to suggest fraud or financial misdemeanour almost certainly would. Regarding the allegations against a certain individual above it would seem to me, on what has been sourced, was not an actual charge against the individual but against a corporate body and that corporate body was fined on at least two counts associated with what was a very sad event. A corporate manslaughter charge is not mentioned nor is there any suggestion that any director was held personally liable.
My other concern is around the potential or actual (since some of you clearly know who is involved) "outing" of individuals involved in SBs case. You do SB no favours in discussing this in a public forum when it is shortly to come to Court. Calling into question the veracity or character of individuals shortly to be appearing in a Court case and where that questioning relates to the specifics of the case could lead to the breakdown of the case. Please for the benefit of all concerned stop it before there are further actionable court cases as a result of this forum.
If Simons case is due to be heard in a couple of months time just be patient and wait for these matters to come on to the public record through the court process.
If there is a witch hunt against Simon then there are others going here in this thread which isnt helpful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I agree with most of what 'FFIRMIN' has written above, though it's a bit lawyerish (pompous). |
Sorry if you think I am pompous but yes I was a lawyer but I have real concerns for fellow Snowheads that they could be leading themselves into trouble and also potentially creating further problems SB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| There are also some curious statements. Surely a CRB check is not required from "Disclosure Scotland". CRB checks are carried out through a main data base previously called the Criminal Records Bureau and now I believe known as the Disclosure and Barring Service. |
Nothing curious about it. As I understand things, BASI is an organisation whose official address is in Scotland (Grantown on Spey) and therefore the official agency for criminal records checks is Disclosure Scotland.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Sorry if you think I am pompous but yes I was a lawyer but I have real concerns for fellow Snowheads that they could be leading themselves into trouble and also potentially creating further problems SB. |
It wasn't at all pompous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Calm down everyone. This is all hearsay.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Gerry wrote: |
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Sorry if you think I am pompous but yes I was a lawyer but I have real concerns for fellow Snowheads that they could be leading themselves into trouble and also potentially creating further problems SB. |
It wasn't at all pompous. |
+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ... The question is: are there any active moderators on snowHeads any longer? ... |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Why was my posting removed? |
I thought that was rather a good way of answering your question, off topic as it is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Ray Zorro, thanks – stops this thread going off-topic (too much, turning into an old thread on another subject).
Re. the trial – will it be an open thing i.e. can anyone go along and watch, or is it involved parties only?
Not that I'm intending to go – too far, and I have to work! But I’d like to know if there’s the chance that outside parties can see what’s going on and report/comment etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Civil hearings are generally held in open court so yes it is likely that it will be possible for anyone who is interested to go along and look and listen. There is generally no bar on reporting what occurs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Alastair for explaining why the CRB disclosure is Disclosure Scotland in connection with BASI membership.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| fixx wrote: |
Re. the trial – will it be an open thing i.e. can anyone go along and watch, or is it involved parties only?
|
According to this site in Scotland, civil cases are heard in the Sheriff Courts and the Court of Session. I believe that Sheriff Courts have a damages limit of £150,000, so presumably this case will be in the Court of Session. Generally Scottish Courts (like those in England & Wales) are open to the public.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| Thanks Alastair for explaining why the CRB disclosure is Disclosure Scotland in connection with BASI membership. |
Actually Disclosure Scotland is used by many companies and not just those based in Scotland. My last check was with Disclosure Scotland for a non Scotland based organisation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@Alastair Pink, i believe it is indeed the Court of Session.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@dogwatch,
| Quote: |
"killed one kid" is rather hyperbolic.
|
Yes of course it is.
I fully appreciate that this was kicked off by a particular Snowhead having a (seemingly inappropriate) dig at Mr Lockerbie, but as I don't know either party I have no axe to grind.
However I was more than a little taken aback with the blazé attitude to the death of a child that some here took, simply because Mr Lockerbie wasn't personally responsible 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I was more than a little taken aback with the blazé attitude to the death of a child that some here took
|
nobody took a blase attitude to the death of a child. The questions were to ascertain the accuracy of an assertion which turned out to be not accurate at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@pam w,
| Quote: |
nobody took a blase attitude to the death of a child.
|
Your opinion, not a statement of fact; since at least one person believes otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I was rather taken aback with the blazé attitude to the death of a child from someone who seemed more concerned with how other people reacted rather than the actual tragic death itself.
Obviously everyone thinks it's a sad case. Goes without saying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I was more than a little taken aback with the blazé attitude to the death of a child that some here took
|
nobody took a blase attitude to the death of a child. The questions were to ascertain the accuracy of an assertion which turned out to be not accurate at all. |
+1 pam w.
Nice attempt at derailing the subject of the thread mozwold but ultimately a failure. Start a thread about the death of this or any child and see how blase people are 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Regarding the issue of DBS checks, these superseded the former CRB checks. The service is now carried out by Disclosure Scotland, regardless of where the applicant for the check resides (except it's different for Northern Ireland). The fact that BASI has its office registered in Scotland is a red herring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I see that the unacceptable comments of 'Teacher' ... asserted facts ...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118807&start=1360#2755411
... remain exactly where they were, intact, posted at 16:02 on Monday.
It emerges that the Bucks Free Press article linked by 'Gaza' - http://archive.is/xZa3 - may have a misquote ...
| Quote: |
| Mr Thomas said managing director of the ski centre, Andrew Lockerbie, should resign. He said: 'When I attended the inquest it was clear the centre had done nothing between my son's death and Antonio Dispenza's death to improve safety. |
My understanding is that "my son's death" should read "my son's injury", but maybe someone can shine some light on the first accident.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I was only bringing to the attention of every BASI member that no matter how bad things are at BASI the CEO or the board will not resign over anything that has happened past or present.
So i leave you on this note, let them waste your money, let them make bad choices and waste more time and effort and more money fighting a losing battle.
Good luck for the future everyone, if you don't have a voice nothing will change.
I'm leaving snow heads.
Maybe it's time for TTT to come back..................... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
right getting back on topic has anyone noticed that Simon Butler's "disciplinary" hearing scheduled fro this month at BASI HQ has been cancelled...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@skimottaret, well, I heard yesterday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| right getting back on topic has anyone noticed that Simon Butler's "disciplinary" hearing scheduled fro this month at BASI HQ has been cancelled... |
Maybe on reflection BASI chiefs thought that the Scottish Judge(s) might take a rather dim view of BASI having a "disciplinary" hearing of Simon Butler just a few days before the case comes before their Court.......
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@laundryman, was leaked on the ski hub Facebook page, Interesting that they don't seem to have a strong enough case regarding his alleged "teaching" in Megeve to warrant an internal hearing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Alastair Pink, could be , seems dumb in any case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@halfhand,
| Quote: |
Nice attempt at derailing the subject of the thread mozwold but ultimately a failure.
|
Nothing of the sort, and frankly I couldn't care less so you can get as up your self as you like.
I'm not a member of BASI, and I wouldn't know Simon Butler from Adam.
From my point of view I see (some) members of each faction that are quite happy hurling accusations at each other, but then have a hissy fit when someone questions your morals.
Get over yourself
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
As I commented a few weeks ago:
| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| As an outsider (just a skiing punter/customer) I view the unfolding events with the BASI management with incredulity, it's the morbid fascination of watching a train wreck.... |
BASI - the organisation that keeps on giving..... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| @laundryman, was leaked on the ski hub Facebook page, Interesting that they don't seem to have a strong enough case regarding his alleged "teaching" in Megeve to warrant an internal hearing. |
I was named in one allegation and identified in another. I submitted a response to them. I think BASI was very wise to drop the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I posted this on the Basi FaceBook page earlier.
BASI -V- SIMON BUTLER -V- BASI
BASI CANCELS DISCIPLINARY HEARING
There has been a fresh development in the long-running dispute between ski instructor Simon Butler and the British Association of Ski Instructors, concerning his ability to operate a ski school in Megève, where he has been teaching for around 30 years. Over the past two decades, Butler has been repeatedly prosecuted by the French authorities, despite holding high BASI qualifications (which the French allege not to be fully valid in their country).
Butler has sued BASI for around £500,000, following their withdrawal of his licence in 2014 (since reinstated) which disrupted his business last winter. A hearing of that case is scheduled at the Edinburgh Court of Session in the first days of October. Immediately before that hearing, on 30 September, Butler had been summoned to a disciplinary hearing of BASI, at which his BASI membership is understood to have been under renewed threat.
A source within BASI now informs SKI.HUB that the hearing has been discharged, following changes in the make-up of BASI's disciplinary panel.
As like @laundryman, i also was named in the complaint to Basi, i was in Megève for 2 days seeing friends and visiting the newly founded Folie Douce, had a lot of fun and a few drinks as well, and as Simon's hearing has been dropped i would to thank Phillip May (Sumo) for writing such a wonderful load of rubbish to Basi about how Simon and myself were teaching in France.
I'm glad that common sense has finally seen the light of day, maybe all those doubters out there will finally believe what Simon is saying is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
If you are going to have a go about me identifying this person remember this, i'm not hiding on here, everyone knows who i am and that i have nothing to hide, and i'm perfectly willing to have a discussion about what has happened, i will only talk about my experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| BlubaBluba wrote: |
i also was named in the complaint to Basi, i was in Megève for 2 days seeing friends and visiting the newly founded Folie Douce, had a lot of fun and a few drinks as well, and as Simon's hearing has been dropped i would to thank Phillip May (Sumo) for writing such a wonderful load of rubbish to Basi about how Simon and myself were teaching in France |
So what happens to members who make unproved complaints
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Wow, this all escalated whilst I was absent!! My goodness me, what is with all of these unfounded accusations flying around? Dangerous ground.
It reminds of that joke ...
Q: when is convicted not even charged?
A: when it's posted on snowheads
However @stewart woodward, that is a good question; surely some kind of investigation should be undertaken by the BASI into the motivation behind said complaints. After all, these are complaints which could have had serious effects upon a fellow member's ability to do their job ... and of course the investigation should consider all complainants, not just the one named above.
... could these complaints be considered libelous? Maybe perhaps they were proven to be malicious, and made by someone with a vested interest in said individual's defamation?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 9-09-15 20:53; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dunk wrote: |
@billy not a boy, I could imagine many reasons why the individual made these complaints, but even with my most colourful dreams "soliciting favours from BASI" is not amongst them.
I would also add, I can see no value in the individuals vindictive and misplaced behaviour and I deplore what they have done. |
I guess there's not really much point in me asking if you'd care to elaborate on this now @Dunk, what with the case being dropped by BASI. Who'd have thunk it though eh? And almost at the eleventh hour too.
It seems a bit odd to me though that the skihub article makes mention of the hearing being cancelled because of a change of personnel on the disciplinary panel; no more controversy there then, I mean who would have thought that such a complaint being upheld would be dependent upon who is or who is not on the disciplinary panel?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@BlubaBluba, can you post the link from Facebook mare
Personally I hope that this comes to court and if the people on the basi board have acted improperly, corruptly, illegally or even stupidly they should get the boot, it wouldn't be tolerated in a normal commercial company and it shouldn't be here, they should be acting in the interests of their members not themselves or there mates
Thus is why it needs to come to court so the truth will out, whatever that maybe
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| ajc2260626 wrote: |
| Thus is why it needs to come to court so the truth will out, whatever that maybe |
There's always the possibility of perjury ... what with the goings-ons, would that seem too far fetched?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| @laundryman, was leaked on the ski hub Facebook page, Interesting that they don't seem to have a strong enough case regarding his alleged "teaching" in Megeve to warrant an internal hearing. |
If they had a strong enough case they could hold the hearing and a court/tribunal could decide that the subsequent properly conducted hearing remedied the faults of the original dismissal. So if their case was strong it would weaken SB's case when it comes to the court case.
Wonder if the BASI lawyers actually know any employment laws, as the disciplinary procedures would need to be very similar to ensure they do not fall foul of the law. In my opinion with the way they dismissed SB in the first instance, while he was at the ski show would def be in breach of any reasonable procedures, leaving the organisation open to the lawsuit that they are now facing with no real defence. After all how hard is it to invite someone to attend a disciplinary hearing and go through the motions even if they had already made their mind up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
