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BASI sued for £500 000

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Teacher wrote:
So, should i out these individuals who complained about Simon Butler?.


Yes, provided you also give your own real name.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'd differ a little, there. Although I'm a great fan of people posting under their real names, if they're spouting subjective views on other people (or worse than that) ... it's quite legitimate for a whistleblower to provide factual information from a veil of anonymity ... if their vocation/livelihood/situation is potentially threatened.

That's not to say that I think the people above should be named. My understanding is that their names are in witness statements to be aired in a court of law within the next month. And that's maybe the best arena for their identities, at least for now.

David Goldsmith
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

That's not to say that I think the people above should be named. My understanding is that their names are in witness statements to be aired in a court of law within the next month. And that's maybe the best arena for their identities, at least for now.
+1
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Ok i'll wait a bit longer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
"within the next month "? good. All this speculation is a bit pointless, isn't it?
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.

Teacher wrote:
So, should i out these individuals who complained about Simon Butler?


If they gave statements and these are publicly available then no issue giving their names here. If they are not available to the public best to wait till their names are given in evidence in court as others have said.


Personally I really do hope they are not doing this maliciously. If they are it may well end their career as ski instructors, after all who here would be inclined to employ such people in the future ( maybe worth discussing that side for a few weeks to pass the time snowHead ).


.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If you are in the industry it is pretty straightforward to work out who the complainants are, two of them will just carry on as normal, one may find work hard to find in future...

One key aspect of this mess is that it isn't just Simon Butler who hasn't received his MoU stamp/Carte Pro there are about 14 or so others in a similar situation.
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Quote:

If they are it may well end their career as ski instructors


@speed098, I suspect that the only people who would really care (and remember) are watching and posting on this thread...which is not a significant proportion of the available skiing audience...
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Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 9-09-15 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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"Full CRB check done by Disclosure Scotland."

Just because the check identifies a criminal record it does not preclude any organisation from deciding that said offence does not constitute a bar to membership or employment.


I dont know the conditions for basi, but it's unlikely to say 'no criminal convictions', more likely that 'any convictions will be reviewed in relation to the role.'
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ansta1 wrote:
"Full CRB check done by Disclosure Scotland."

Just because the check identifies a criminal record it does not preclude any organisation from deciding that said offence does not constitute a bar to membership or employment.


I dont know the conditions for basi, but it's unlikely to say 'no criminal convictions', more likely that 'any convictions will be reviewed in relation to the role.'


Exactly. This is getting more and more silly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'm sure the parents paying their hard earned money would like to know that their instructor has a clean record just as you would expect a school teacher.

Don't defend the indefensible.
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[quote="ansta1"]"Full CRB check done by Disclosure Scotland."

Just because the check identifies a criminal record it does not preclude any organisation from deciding that said offence does not constitute a bar to membership or employment.


I'm pretty certain that the French do when they are issuing Carte Pros, 0% tolerance on any kind of criminal record, especially a involuntary manslaughter charge.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Teacher wrote:
I'm sure the parents paying their hard earned money would like to know that their instructor has a clean record just as you would expect a school teacher.

Don't defend the indefensible.


Personally if the instructor got nabbed for shoplifting at the age of 17 but hasn't had any convictions since, as an example, then i wouldn't have any issue. People make mistakes throughout their life.

I can't comment on the carte pro requirements however but if someone can evidence that would put that question to bed i guess.

I would not wish to cast aspersions in anyway, but can we really assume that of all those instructors with that qualification have absolutely no convictions whatsoever? I'd be genuinely surprised that based on the number of instructors that there is a zero rate of criminal conviction no matter how small but again happy to be proven wrong on that premise.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Teacher wrote:
I'm sure the parents paying their hard earned money would like to know that their instructor has a clean record just as you would expect a school teacher.

Don't defend the indefensible.


Not defending anything. For all I know you could be telling porkies.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Teacher, I have a criminal record, having been charged of being "drunk in charge of a bottle of Blanc-de-blancs". And spent a night in a cell in the Gendarmerie. Charge dropped in intervention of local M. Le Maire because of all sorts of local mountain village politics.

I don't think anyone's ever going to worry too much about that?

I can't believe that no ski instructors have criminal records. That's absurd.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
and a charge is not a conviction?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@pam w, Going to court, pleading guilty and receiving a suspended sentence under the charge of involuntary manslaughter is a conviction.
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Teacher wrote:
@pam w, Going to court, pleading guilty and receiving a suspended sentence under the charge of involuntary manslaughter is a conviction.


Yeah, but you said 'charge'.

Quote:
So answer me this if anyone can, The CEO of BASI was involved in Involuntary Man slaughter charge back in the early part of this century. Which must give you a criminal record.


Are we supposed to read your mind? Anyway, if it's in the public domain, then you will have no trouble providing a source. If you can't come up with a source, then I'm not just going to take your word for it.
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Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 9-09-15 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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@Teacher, google is not the "internet"

Worries me that you might think so Puzzled
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Teacher wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jul/06/6

This is the only article left on the internet as the person involved got google to remove all other articles involving his name.


You'd better get to the public records office and copy the official record then. Report back to me, here, when you have done so.
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@Teacher,

(Guardian newspaper), "one charge of failing to review risks after an accident and two counts of failing to ensure the safety of two skiers"

Where's the "manslaughter" charge or conviction?
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You don't need a clean criminal record to hold a carte pro. In fact, I know someone who has a criminal record in France for working without a carte pro, who now has a carte pro!

Certain crimes (presumably violence, sexual offences, etc.) would, of course, prevent one from being issued.
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under a new name wrote:
@Teacher,

(Guardian newspaper), "one charge of failing to review risks after an accident and two counts of failing to ensure the safety of two skiers"

Where's the "manslaughter" charge or conviction?


Yes, Teacher is on very dodgy legal ground right now.
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@Gerry, (s)he's clearly demonstrating a few deficits of understanding...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Teacher wrote:

So answer me this if anyone can, The CEO of BASI was involved in Involuntary Man slaughter charge back in the early part of this century. Which must give you a criminal record.


According to your own sourced article it doesn't appear that he was. All you have proved is that Wycombe Summit Ltd were found guilty of failing to review risks after an accident and two counts of failing to ensure the safety of two skiers.

You have some explaining to do. You may begin now.
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Andrew Lockerbie was not personally charged

http://archive.is/xZa3

Quote:
Last week the Health and Safety Executive successfully prosecuted Wycombe Summit Ltd, the ski slope operator, for breaches of health and safety regulations.

The company pleaded guilty at Aylesbury Crown Court on July 5 to three offences, two under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and one under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1992. The ski slope was fined £13,500 with costs of £10,000 awarded to the HSE.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So, not charged, let alone convicted?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:
So, not charged, let alone convicted?


No, entirely a corporate matter. Biggest, nastiest smear yet on snowHeads?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Gerry, don't be ridiculous. Someone once suggested I was pretentious!

Moi?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well perhaps understandable, if inaccurate there's a bit more here http://archive.is/xZa3 he may have had google remove search details using his name, but there are ways and means of finding details if you think laterally in your search.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 7-09-15 22:31; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@D G Orf, Your link is deaded.
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Try now, a spurious comma got added
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Surely at some point BASI won't be being sued for £500,000 anymore. Isn't there a time limit on this stuff?


Or is this a permanent state of BASI?
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Oh, so he was only the MD of company that killed one kid and maimed others, he wasn't personally responsible, that's ok then Puzzled
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Looks like there are all sorts of odd things going on, the court case is I think due later this year in Scotland
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@mozwold, the thing is he was not charged with an offence, you and I might think that at the very least he should have quit because the HSE certainly indicated that the company had failed to act after being told to do so, but what we think should have occurred is not the same as what happens legally, an accusation was made that he had been found guilty of or at least been charged with involuntary manslaughter but this does not appear to be the case so far as I can tell.
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mozwold wrote:
Oh, so he was only the MD of company that killed one kid and maimed others, he wasn't personally responsible, that's ok then Puzzled


Justice was done.
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So it appears the convictions were against the company under the Health and Safety Act. No manslaughter and no personal charges.

Teacher, whoever you are, it seems to me your credibility has just evaporated.
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