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BASI sued for £500 000

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
David Goldsmith wrote:
Teacher wrote:
@billy not a boy, I phoned Basi on Friday and pretended to be a reporter, started laying it on thick and it's amazing how quickly they would drop each other in it, took at least 45 seconds to find out who had reported Simon Butler to the disciplinary board, and another 15 seconds to find out who wrote the emails to the Italians, they know they are in the poo-poo and are now naming names to divert the blame from certain individuals.


2. Teacher's comments above seem slightly far-fetched, and are anonymous, and - with no disrespect - maybe are best left floating in the air.


I love this bit too ... are you claiming sole rights on pretending to be a reporter or something @David Goldsmith?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ALQ wrote:
Dunk wrote:
Next meeting at Hemel, will it be as much fun as last years at the ski show?


The resolution will not be televised !


and you think that the resolution will be live? .. lol
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
billy not a boy wrote:
ALQ wrote:
Dunk wrote:
Next meeting at Hemel, will it be as much fun as last years at the ski show?


The resolution will not be televised !


and you think that the resolution will be live? .. lol


Well, it will take a nation of millions to hold them back.
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billy not a boy wrote:
... are you claiming sole rights on pretending to be a reporter or something @David Goldsmith?


No, I am claiming sole rights on being a flat fish with relatively little intelligence
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Goldsmith wrote:
billy not a boy wrote:
... are you claiming sole rights on pretending to be a reporter or something @David Goldsmith?


No, I am claiming sole rights on being a flat fish with relatively little intelligence


Not the underside of a foot?
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will any of the above get discussed at hemel? if it did i would probably go just to view.......
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ajc2260626 wrote:
will any of the above get discussed at hemel? if it did i would probably go just to view.......


Short answer : No.

Slightly extended answer: They will seek "legal" advice, or they will take "legal" counsel before hand and conclude that they cannot discuss the matter because it is an ongoing case - remember that discussion of anything that makes them feel uneasy is dissuaded at any and all group meetings, be that AGM, EGM, trade show, whatever.

The upshot is that they do not want any more people aware of the situation than already are. Who would want to broadcast to the membership that they themselves are incompetent and should not be holding the positions for which they have been democratically elected?


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 24-08-15 15:50; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
surely everyone in basi knows about this now?
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also so is wait rose known as there seems to be a reference of a she?
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ajc2260626 wrote:
also so is wait rose known as there seems to be a reference of a she?


No, just my suspicions; I believe that Waitrose was formerly known on this forum as TTT. I suspected TTT of being a particular female individual


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 24-08-15 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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ajc2260626 wrote:
surely everyone in basi knows about this now?


Many will know that the suit is being brought against them, they will however not be aware of much of the detail. The detail needs to be obfuscated.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
lol i love it, if thats the case i cant believe that people would go to all that trouble just to keep their identity secret.... although it all adds to the drama! wink
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ajc2260626 wrote:
lol i love it, if thats the case i cant believe that people would go to all that trouble just to keep their identity secret.... although it all adds to the drama! wink


And a "second voice" must ad credence to the perpetuated drivel.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The question that should be asked is what are the accumulated legal fees expended on the Simon Butler case (which by that time may include SB's fees, plus damages, depending on the outcome of the Edinburgh case). Perfectly legitimate member concern, doesn't go into tactical detail, or threaten personal data, etc.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Also the not so veiled threat of challenging BASI because they are taking legal advice from a QC. That will deplete the coffers and is not related to SB. When is black not black and white not white - when it is a complex issue according to BASI. White page black text seems pretty straightforward.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
"Often referred to as the 'articles', articles of association are effectively the internal rule book of the company that shareholders and the company's officers must agree to. Every UK company has a legal requirement to have a set and they are legally binding.

The rules ensure the company's smooth running and include for example those around how decisions that affect the company need to be made and the role of shareholders in the making of those decisions.
Typically most UK companies use standard or model articles of association but you can change these or write your own as long as the company doesn’t break the law."

Anyone know what is grey about the above? Why does BASI not run smoothly? Is it because they don't comply with the Articles of Association. Do they make things up to suit what they are doing rather than comply with above sentence two.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jimd wrote:
He will be lucky to get his 30 pieces of silver from BASI, but I did hear a rumour that he allegedly passed a course he hasn't been able to pass previously. I doubt he will get his legal bills paid by SB in future though.


So this is how it works now is it, you do Basi a favour and they pass you through an exam that because you are so unbelievably over weight you would never stand a hope in hells chance of passing on your own merit.

I'm still in absolute shock that this piece of poo-poo could do this to someone (i.e) Simon Butler after everything that he has done for him.

Karma will get you in the end.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I heard rumour that he had failed the course FIVE TIMES previously ... but we should pay no attention to rumour.

If you read the emails though , you will notice lots of bottom licking and a sincere apology about previously disagreeing with the trainers (hmmm, I wonder why he failed before then)
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Have I got this right? BASI allowed an overweight former employer of SB to 'pass' a course, as thanks for this person having shopped SB to them? And then leaked said person's emails on the subject? It does sound a tad far-fetched... Confused
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hurtle wrote:
Have I got this right? BASI allowed an overweight former employer of SB to 'pass' a course, as thanks for this person having shopped SB to them? And then leaked said person's emails on the subject? It does sound a tad far-fetched... Confused


I don't believe that BASI themselves leaked the documents, and as for the former employee being given a pass for dobbing SB, that is all conjecture. It is rather interesting to me though that said individual has passed said module upon sixth sitting, at roughly the same time as the formal complaint was made.

It is though all conjecture at this time.

i don't hold much stock in coincidence, but that is my personal view.
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Teacher wrote:
So can anybody answer me this then please,

Andrew Lockerbie CEO of BASI Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp.

Don Bates Does not have his Eurotest but has his Carte Pro & MOU stamp. and sits on the BASI Board.

Both these individuals have their full ISTD and sit both work in Megève, France and both have something to gain by putting Simon Butler out of business.

So my question is this,

SIMON BUTLER PASSED his ISTD before these two individuals, way way before, so why can't he have his MOU like everyone else?


I've had to correct my original post here which was questioning the factual correctness of the above quoted posting ... it is the case that Simon Butler gained his Grade 1 in 1986 (remember he was at that time the youngest to date to have achieved said qualification), and Andi Lockerbie gained his Grade 1 in 1988.

A question that does arise is why did it take BASI until 2008 to award Simon his full ISTD? ... yes there was an administrative error or so they have claimed, but I'm pretty certain that SB was questioning this ever since the L4/ISTD came into being in 2002. After all, he took the Mountain safety module, which was all that was required under the terms of the grandfathering principle.

And further, as mentioned in the quoted text, since SB gained his Grade 1 before Andrew Lockerbie (actually the same year as did Alex Leaf a respected BASI trainer who also has his MoU whilst having not passed the Euro Test), why does AL (also having not passed the Euro Test) have an MoU and SB's was allegedly issued in error?


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 26-08-15 15:12; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A hypothetical situation with questions, if you might indulge me:

Put yourself in the position of an aspiring ski instructor (I'm sure you can imagine what it is like), whereby you have been successful to a degree working your way through a snow sports qualifications system (let's call it ABSI) and you decide that you want to work in Country F, so you approach a Country F ski school (in Resort M) and they employ you giving you a period of time to work on the proviso that you will carry on working towards the highest qualification within the ABSI system, specifically to gain qualifications centered around speed and mountain safety.

You accept said job and do your time, but fail to attain said qualifications and therefore your term within the Country F system has come to an end, but you really love working in Resort M and you are stuck for a means to carry on doing so. You are aware all this time that someone (let's call him maître d') is running his business in said resort and throughout your time within the Country F system you have been publicly vocal on the matter of how terrible maître d' is for running his business without following "the rules". However, it turns out that maître d' is now your only opportunity to remain working in Resort M, where you have become extremely well acquainted and are reluctant to leave, because all local Country F schools turn you away due to your failure to complete your qualifications within the allotted time.

So, you go cap in hand to maître d', apologising for your vocality explaining that it had to be done due to the politics of working within the Country F system, and that you really would like to work as part of his team. Maître d' accepts your appology and takes you on as a member of his team and you work for him for three seasons, all the while continuing (with no success) your attempts at furthering your qualifications within the ABSI system, failing a module (for argument's sake let's say about five times in total). You work with maître d' and the rest of his staff daily, befriending and instructing his customers who are extremely loyal (to a fault some might say) to his business. Then you become one of the "M six" hauled off the slopes and put in front a judge charged with instructing without the required qualifications, and you feature in a headline court battle centered around European Union level policy.

Even though you knew exactly what the possibilities were when you joined maître d's company because you were fully aware of his legal battles etc. and you made the choice to work for him of your own volition. Let's imagine however, that maître d' foots the bill for your legal costs and has his own legal counsel represent you in court.

Here are the questions to this hypothetical situation:

What do you think your feelings might be towards maître d' -in terms of gratitude, with respect to both employment opportunity and financial and legal aide?
What do you think would cause you to make a complaint about maître d' to ABSI?
How do you think it might look if you were to suddenly pass that ABSI module which had previously been out of your reach, immediately after you did make that complaint?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle wrote:
Have I got this right? BASI allowed an overweight former employer of SB to 'pass' a course, as thanks for this person having shopped SB to them? And then leaked said person's emails on the subject? It does sound a tad far-fetched... Confused


In my experience, Hurtle, you get everything right. No need to doubt yourself.

Just one point: the second sentence (which doesn't feature perfect sentence construction) comes over as a bit weightist. I'm not aware that BASI puts candidates on a set of scales before admitting them to a course of training, or applies a maximum weight limit for qualification.

On the contrary, I've met some excellent 'heavyweight' ski instructors.
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billy not a boy wrote:

How do you think it might look if you were to suddenly pass that ABSI module which had previously been out of your reach, immediately after you did make that complaint?


Hypothetically what would that module be?
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David Goldsmith wrote:
Hurtle wrote:
Have I got this right? BASI allowed an overweight former employer of SB to 'pass' a course, as thanks for this person having shopped SB to them? And then leaked said person's emails on the subject? It does sound a tad far-fetched... Confused


In my experience, Hurtle, you get everything right. No need to doubt yourself.

Just one point: the second sentence (which doesn't feature perfect sentence construction) comes over as a bit weightist. I'm not aware that BASI puts candidates on a set of scales before admitting them to a course of training, or applies a maximum weight limit for qualification.

On the contrary, I've met some excellent 'heavyweight' ski instructors.


No weight limits but def some speed limits involved (ET) so hey looking at how BASI board have conducted this so far maybe now you have given them another line to pursue to limit the number of full certs.

billy not a boy,

If someone gave you ( said BASI member who worked for SB ) employment even after you had been, should we say calling them and then helps you with your legal cost, only some real low life would then turn away from giving that employer FULL support.
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this bloke (if his name comes out and what has being said if found to be true) will be about a popular as a scorpion in a lucky dip!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Gaza wrote:
billy not a boy wrote:

How do you think it might look if you were to suddenly pass that ABSI module which had previously been out of your reach, immediately after you did make that complaint?


Hypothetically what would that module be?


In my hypothetical example, let us say that the module which was [almost] miraculously passed was the EMS (Mountain Safety) module ... remember the the French are extremely keen on safety modules being requisite for ski instructors, so it would be imperative that this module is actually passed upon one's own merit and not simply awarded in return for a favour.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 26-08-15 14:16; edited 1 time in total
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speed098 wrote:
billy not a boy,

If someone gave you ( said BASI member who worked for SB ) employment even after you had been, should we say calling them and then helps you with your legal cost, only some real low life would then turn away from giving that employer FULL support.


+1

That is the conclusion I would draw too.

Knowing the individual in question (because it is my hypothetical scenario after all); I would say that he is a two-faced, back-stabbing, gutter-snipe who feels wronged for some reason by the very company that employed him when nobody else would. He gained an understanding of the kind of money passing through the hands of the business and most likely decided that he wasn't seeing enough of it for himself (what with him only being an employee and all). He would often run down his fellow team mates in front of maitre d's paying guests, in an effort to win private tuition for himself instead of those tried and trusted individuals whom the guests had got to know over their 15 plus years of return business.

Do not misunderstand me, as far as his instructing goes, our hypothetical instructor is good at his job; i.e. he is a very good instructor who works really well with children and adults alike, from complete novices through to seasoned and highly experienced skiers; he is however a blow-hard, name dropper who cannot keep his mouth shut and his opinions to himself when he should (i.e. in front of his boss' paying customers, or in his communications with ABSI)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@billy not a boy, Would anybody mind if i chipped in here.
As i have worked with this individual for many years i would like to offer an opinion.

I agree with @billy not a boy, to an extent, firstly what he has done to simon is just about as low as you can get in my opinion, there are two main partners in SBSki and only one of them wanted this individual employed, you only need one guess who that was, year after year Simon stuck his neck out for this guy, to say that he was good at his job just makes me laugh, after 5 days of teaching the same group of kids he still couldn't remember their names i don't call that great customer service.

One very big group of guests had to go and see Simon to tell him that under no circumstances is this individual to teach anyone in their party because he seriously offended one of them, again i don't call that great customer service.

As i was mentioned in his complaint to BASI i have to say I'm absolutely shocked by his behaviour and conduct towards a former employer.

I have one thing i would like to say though, I'm not sure if he really is impressing anyone at BASI because one of the others involved has previously sacked this individual in the past, and the other one hates him, so what does he have to gain by doing this, in my opinion nothing apart from isolating himself from the rest of the skiing community for seriously bad conduct, would any ISTD with a ski school employ him knowing what he will do, i think not.

So i give you these passing words.

Good luck for the future, my god are you going to need it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Of course you can chip in @BlubaBluba, I would say however that I only commented on his ability to instruct, not his ability with regards to customer service; though I guess the poor nature of it was alluded to in the other comments about his blatantly open sniping and back-stabbing.

I can only comment on the quality of instruction which I have witnessed, and I know that you must have witnessed it to a far greater extent than did I since you worked with him for several seasons and I have only had a number of weeks of interaction.

What I witnessed was some good instruction and a lot of back-stabbing. I will however concede to your longer experience.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 26-08-15 18:25; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Wonder if this person will take the new SSS qualifications as he seems to not only have burnt bridges with people who know him at BASi but buried the remains as well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
speed098 wrote:
Wonder if this person will take the new SSS qualifications as he seems to not only have burnt bridges with people who know him at BASi but buried the remains as well.


SSS quals are only for the UK, they are not recognised internationally. I can't imagine him wanting to spend his winters in Scotland. My belief is that his plans are to return to the ESI or maybe even head over to the ESF, but this is only conjecture ... the bottom line is however that if he intends to do either he will have to pass the ET, and I'm not sure if he'll be able to do that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
billy not a boy wrote:
..If you read the emails ...


Hypothetically speaking, if person A would like to read hypothetical emails similar to the ones you mention, where can they be hypothetically found?
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Hypothetically speaking, they can be found here ... https://www.facebook.com/notes/skihub/basi-v-simon-butler-v-basi-the-italian-connection-2-the-emails/1669133746706724

but I have to apologise, this thread is about the MoU stuff ... I thought that maybe other items had been made public; I guess they have not.
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@billy not a boy, Oh, it seems I'm in the wrong hypothetical scenario. I thought you were talking about other hypothetical emails written by a hypothetical 'gutter-snipe' doing the rounds.
Never mind, carry on.
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I was talking about other hypothetical emails, but it was a mistake of mine in believing that they had been made public. I thought that they had accompanied the MoU stuff that David Goldsmith published ... I was wrong, sorry about that everyone
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

Wonder if this person will take the new SSS qualifications as he seems to not only have burnt bridges with people who know him at BASi but buried the remains as well.


Hypothetically if he took up wrestling he could get a job in japan.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
There is soo !! much hypothetical I am becoming a hypochondriac, Shocked
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The EMS is a course required by BASI but run by mountain guides. I would very much doubt any guide would ever pass anyone on a course if they were not worthy, the suggestion that he was "given" his EMS is totally absurd.

Some of the crap on here is totally unreal.
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@Dunk, Especially that pertaining to SB as all will be revealed in October.
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