 Poster: A snowHead
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@hammerite, I have left the car paked outside on the resort road many times and on occaisons the temperatture when coming to start has been -20. After digging out, sometimes for over an hour the car has always started first turn of the key. As @Timc, says always go for the most concentrated screen wash but even the -20 has frozen on us before, but that is all. We take chains but do not bother with winter tyres and the roads have never been a problem.
I have just toted up the cost of getting here to Les Arcs this week and one way came to roughly £200. Depending on the resort you are staying in you may have to pay to park for the visit, but this is usually les than parking at an airport or Asford for the train. Some people like to spend a night in a hotel on the journey, but I have never seen the point - just keep rotating the drivers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We've just done the drive, for the first time. And it was an unqualified success. Cost was about £500 all in. Two of us plus three kids in a Citroen people carrier. On the way down we stayed in Dijon overnight and were in La Rosiere by 11:30 next morning and on the slopes for a few hours in the afternoon. On the way back we did it in one hit - 2 x half-hour stops for petrol, food and toilet breaks. Left La Rosiere at 8am and drove into the Chunnel check in at 6pm. We are only an hour and a bit from Folkestone, which does make it a bit easier. Averaged 45mpg all in. And had to dig the car out to leave on the Saturday morning, but it still started OK. 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 8-04-15 18:41; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Timc, so just higher concentration of normal anti freeze/screen wash? I thought I'd heard mention on here in the past of different stuff sold near the Alps for colder temps.
The trouble we have with underground parking is that we'd be driving a Vauxhall Vivaro van, which is usually too tall for most underground car parks. We did just manage to get it in the underground car park in Oz when we drove out for a cycling holiday - but that was only after knowing a friend got their van down there!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@johnE, thanks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if the van is diesel fill up in the alps the anti gell is stronger-14--20c (no anti gel in northern france or uk)If possible try to leave car facing the sun.
Take a shovel!
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 8-04-15 19:25; edited 4 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We have always stayed overnight going down, usually somewhere between Troyes and Besançon, but driven back in one go. This is provisional on rigorous change-over of driver every 2 hours. I wouldn't do it in one go with a single driver.
I wish I'd gone for the SANEF liber-T windscreen thingy earlier - it makes going through the tolls much easier and if it's busy scholl holidays, quicker.
We did try overnight once, but it really wasn't for us - OK in summer but in winter, you feel like you want to stop much earlier.
The hypermarket at St.Quentin Nord is literally 5 mins off the Autoroute E17/A26, exit at Saint Quentin Nord Jct.17 (if you're going that way).
Last trip we took a Thermos with us and it made all the difference - means you can have a hot drink when you want and top it up at a service station for later.
We also joined the local library and chose our own audiobooks last trip - a lot cheaper than buying them.
There are innumerable threads about winter tyres versus just chains and I hesitate to raise it here. We have had winter tyres as a policy now for the last 5-6 years but I appreciate that they can be hard to justify.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 8-04-15 19:35; edited 2 times in total
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@hammerite, Just buy the concentrated screenwash from Lidl and use that neat - it claims it's good for down to around -35C which is (IME) fine for the Alps. I usually take a few bottles extra if there for a while. But the local garages have stuff which works at those temperatures and are hardly any more expensive.
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I always use the halfords -30 screenwash for Xmas and Feb HT trips to the Swiss Alps. Never had a problem with anything freezing. I do fill up close to the mountains though to stop the diesel giving up.
I'd say it costs us around £300 in a diesel 5 series. We drive throug the night though so no hotels to speak of. Tunnel with tesco vouchers. 3 tanks of fuel and some food from home. I use winter tyres in the UK so don't count these as a cost. We work in events, and drive vans round the country a lot at night, I appreciate for the family or the average 9-5 worker it might seem more of a daunting prospect.
I really enjoy the drive but next year we won't be tied in to the Holiday period so might just do the easyjet to Zurich option instead of it's only 3 of us as it will probably work out cheaper by the time we've paid to park outside Saas Fee for 12 days, as that adds about another £90 on to the cost.
3 is the break even point for us. If 2 mates want to come with us, we drive, just the one and we will probably fly.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you are OK with €100 for a family room, I can recommend the 3* Logis 'Le val Moret', just off Jct.22 of the A5 near Troyes, which is about 4½-5 hours south of Calais. It has a nice indoor heated pool which the kids will like. Take a look at http://www.le-val-moret.com/en/le-val-moret.html We find that this is about as far as we want to go after an early start and Channel crossing. Other options are cheaper, including Campanile and Formule-1 but we prefer to spend a bit more and make the overnight stop part of the holiday.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 8-04-15 22:00; edited 1 time in total
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Wow! You are all brilliant with all this information. Thank you so much. I have a million more questions I want to ask but need to doa do a bit of my own research first.
Thank you again! X
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@breeze11, Ask away, over the years the most testing to the most ridiculous questions and everything in between have been asked (and sometimes given a straight forward answer) on snowheads
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Guess it depends on where you are in relation to the port. The Rotterdam ferry doesn't sail until 9pm or something like that (check in closes 7:30) so if you're close enough, wouldn't need a day off. I've obviously been lucky when I've used it, never had anything other than a smooth crossing, only hold up last time was getting out on to the road at Rotterdam as they had traffic-lighted roadworks right by the entrance. I also go via Topcashback to book, have already had enough to cover a crossing. Paid on average £125 for one person with car, 2 bed inside cabin and meals per crossing.
Re cars freezing up sitting doing nothing, never had a problem with mine, sometimes when having sat for 3 weeks or so unused (I will go clear snow from the roof/sides if there has been quite a bit of fresh snow tho).
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Guess it depends on where you are in relation to the port. The Rotterdam ferry doesn't sail until 9pm or something like that (check in closes 7:30) so if you're close enough, wouldn't need a day off. I've obviously been lucky when I've used it, never had anything other than a smooth crossing, only hold up last time was getting out on to the road at Rotterdam as they had traffic-lighted roadworks right by the entrance. I also go via Topcashback to book, have already had enough to cover a crossing. Paid on average £125 for one person with car, 2 bed inside cabin and meals per crossing.
Re cars freezing up sitting doing nothing, never had a problem with mine, sometimes when having sat for 3 weeks or so unused (I will go clear snow from the roof/sides if there has been quite a bit of fresh snow tho).
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You know it makes sense.
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We're in France right now and drove out from Glasgow nearly 2 weeks ago. We have our own place and drive over 2-3 times a year. I reckon it costs around £550 in total to drive which includes, fuel, ferry, tolls and a hotel overnight each way. It's a long drive but it's still cheaper (just!) and more convenient for us than flying. The advice I would give is just to make sure that your car is well maintained as a breakdown on a weekend in the middle of France would really disrupt your holiday. Winter tyres are a very good investment but you'll probably\maybe be ok without them. 2 driver's doing 2-3 hours each. BBC radio 4 on long wave can be listened to until Rheims and an electric cool box is brilliant for cold drinks and keeping sandwiches fresh. Also cruise control set at 84mph stops you from having an expensive chat with a gendarme. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I reckoned the last time we came home it saved us about an hour due to not having to Q at tolls.
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Wow! I think it saves about 10 seconds at each toll gate, which is about 1 and half minutes on a 9 - 10 hour drive. We drive down to the Alpes 2 or 3 times a year for the last 10+ years and never seen a queue of more than a minute or two at a toll booth. I must be missing something.
I have taken to either dowloading radio 4 pod casts (In our Time and More or Less are particular favourites) or buying an audio book. For this trip we have 54 hours of the Count of Monte Cristo! A cracking story to keep you awake during the night.
The travel kettle sounds a good idea to me and I must give it a try.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don`t the travel kettles take forever to heat up? And I would not want to drive along with water approaching boiling point. But maybe more modern ones than ours heat up more quickly?
I also prefer to listen to local radio, updates on traffic have on occasions proved very useful, then again only if you can understand the sometimes rapid french lol. OH likes to drive along to Abba 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think you have to stop to use a travel kettle.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We bought a travel kettle a few years ago after a 12 hour journey here to Les Gets with weather issues (snow actually!) and a very slow trip to Austria and delays going that way - it certainly does take a long time to heat up but we bought it as insurance and have never had to use it. It sits in the bag with all the chain fitting stuff and the other paraphernalia we travel with. But if we got stuck then we would not mind stopping. Always travel with plenty of food and drinks in the winter particularly. Also rugs and the like. The zapper for the tolls certainly has saved us time over the years - lent it to the kids if they are travelling and we are not. OH records things like Desert Island Discs for the journey.
We probably travel down here five or six times a year - preference is to take the tunnel on the way over here just to get going, and the ferry on the way back, so we can eat after the journey.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We tend to keep a bag of change in car and grab drinks from the ending machines, always found them to be perfectly drinkable
Doofer certainly saves time and hassle, depending on time of travel. Coming back at Easter probably saved 10 mins
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Another vote for the ferry. I like the break and we always go to the Langan's restaurant which lasts the journey. Fed and refreshed and I find it switches me into 'holiday mode'. When I go to the continent on business I use the tunnel.
Ferry is usually about 80 quid return (saving on the tunnel pays for the meal. Sort of)
Fuel costs, megane scenic diesel at 85mph, are around 3 tanks of diesel there and back to Val Thorens with some leftover, which I guess is around 150 quid.
I use the 'doofer' for tolls and so tend not to see the cost upfront but from memory is around 150 quid return.
There is probably an unbudgetted and unrecorded cost in the fact that every time you stop in the services you tend to buy stuff. Or I do.
So maybe the cost of driving is around 400 return. We never stop and always do the trip in one hit.
We pay for parking which is about 70 quid for the week.
As we tend to go down 5 or 6 times a year and I keep winter tyres on all year round it probably isn't fair to add those costs.
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We travel in summer and winter and the doofer saves only a little time at the quiet times, a minute or so. In the busy times it saves huge amounts, admittedly you still have to queue until you reach the plaza but once you reach it the 30k lane is usually completely free saving at least 15 minutes.
Once you are heading to a 30k lane just watch the French drivers behind peel off to go into other lanes. They obviously think that a GB reg doesn't know where he's going and they don't want to get stuck behind him.
The real joy is that if I'm driving I don't have to wake my wife up with the cry "Peage" even better if she's driving then I don't get woken up.
It's one of those things that once you have had one you will not do without it.
If you want to stream UK radio over 3G then 3 have a brilliant deal, I am on an unlimited data sim only contract at £15 per month which covers most of the EU plus Australia and a few others with their "Feel at home" feature. We had 4 weeks in Australia last year and our data usage would have cost £7,000+ on Orange etc but cost nothing extra on 3. Having said that I wouldn't have used the phone that way if I had been with one of them.
On the screen wash, don't buy the "ready to use" buy the concentrate and if on diesel do fill up in or close to the mountains.
On kettles, a lot of the cheaper hotels don't have coffee making facilities, so a small kettle and coffee sachets are a good idea.
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We had 4 weeks in Australia last year and our data usage would have cost £7,000+ on Orange etc but cost nothing extra on 3.
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But surely you would have bought a SIM at the airport like everyone else
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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But surely you would have bought a SIM at the airport like everyone else
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Why buy a sim when what we already had was free?
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Quote:
But surely you would have bought a SIM at the airport like everyone else
Why buy a sim when what we already had was free?
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Yes, but no one would pay £7000 either.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@breeze11 You initially mentioned staying in the UK the first night? Having thought about your logistics, if you leave S.Wales at a civilised time, say 08:30, then you'll get to Eurotunnel about 4 hours driving later. Lets say 5 hours with stops/delays, so that's 13:30. If you went for a 14:00 train then you'll be in Calais at 15:40 local time.
If you took this approach I'd still recommend getting across to France rather than staying in the UK at/near a Channel port. So option 1 might be staying just the other side of Calais, checking-in around 16:30-17:30.
Option 2 might be to drive a bit further. I'm reluctant to make any recommendation, because everyone is different in terms of driving stamina etc.. South from Calais, here are the viamichelin.com driving times in hours:
Arras - 1 (7)
Reims - 2½ (5½)
Troyes - 4 (4)
Magnant - 4½ (3½)
Besançon - 6¼ (1¾)
The numbers in brackets are the remaining drive time to Morillion, excluding stops.
The Besançon route is only relevant if you take the direct route across the Jura mountains through Switzerland, where you would need a motorway Vignette at CHF 40 / €34. You'd probably opt for the route that is slightly longer but confines itself to France.
We stay at a motel (Le val Moret) just off the Autoroute A5 Jct.22 in Magnant, 4½ hours out, but that's because from Brighton, we usually get to Calais about 12:30 so are ahead of where you would be, and have only driven for 1½ hours to get to Eurotunnel. We've also stayed in Besançon a couple of times, but found that the additional couple of hours really drags, and by then it's getting dark, and you have to actually find your hotel either buried in the middle of the city or on some industrial park on the periphery.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 10-04-15 13:33; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Oh, and @Timc - Yes, I've noticed this French driver 'Does this GB guy really have a liber-t tag?' syndrome too. Great fun. Almost as much fun as the guy last summer in the very expensive GB Bentley tailgating me on the approach to the 30Kph lane who realised too late that I had a tag - and he didn't ......
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Msej449 - wow! Thats brilliant! Thanks for all that info. Im going to have a good look at it later.
We were chatting this morning about if putting the kids to bed in the car and driving through the night was worth considering. Or maybe getting up at 5am and doing it in a day. I think I need to write a list of all our options.
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You know it makes sense.
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@breeze11, we drive from North-East England. We have left after work occasionally, and drove to Holiday Inn Express right next to Eurotunnel. Prefer the morning start and an overnight stay in France though. Reims/Epernay/Chalons are usually around the right area for the days drive. Stop around 5-6pm, dinner and a reasonably early night for the journey south the next day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Toll cost from Calais to Flaine.
132 Euros (according to my Sanef tag account)
That's on the Reims > Troyes > Dijon > Bourg-en-Bresse > Annemasse route.
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Poster: A snowHead
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That is return.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes - sorry should have made that clear - 132 Euros return.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@breese11 - Overnight driving with younger children has it attractions and we've done it in the summer back from N.E. Spain to Calais, when it worked well (we spent the day by the pool and left the resort at 4pm). The problem with winter is (i) potential bad weather and (ii) cold. Whereas in the summer you can stop for an hour or two to have a nap if you need one, when we tried this in the winter it just didn't work because we had to keep the engine running to keep the car warm, and it's just not as comfortable. Also, imagine that it's snowing or freezing fog - we had a nightmare night journey in freezing fog one year, which put me off, even with 4x adults sharing the driving. No one is going to sleep if the driver is battling against the snow ....
I also didn't mean to completely discount staying-over near the Channel exit point: I can see that a good night's sleep and 8am start means you'd get to Calais around what, 11:00 CET? Then driving down it in one go would mean arriving around 20:00-21:00. Taking an overnight break would mean you'd have a very leisurely drive down, and a lot of the day left on arrival.
Lots to think about - As you say, it's worth compiling a list of options with pros/cons/costs etc for each and then deciding.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Recommend getting waze or other traffic app as you do get rare unexpected snowfalls which close motorways and mountain passes so there is always an alternative route if you plan ahead.
Don't forget the other advantages of having a car:
1. Rent cheaper accommodation down the mountain and drive say 15 mins up each day. Find piste side parking and ski in ski out from your car. Parking is usually free in France plus you can keep lunch , spare clothes, kid paraphernalia, sledges etc.
2. The biggest advantage - avoid flight delays and the biggest scourge to mankind - the dreaded coach transfer which is always twice the time they promise!!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@breeze11, our daughter and son-in-law left Les Gets last night around 7 p.m. with the 2.5 year old and 4 month old. Both girls were bathed and in PJs, feed for the baby while the older one watched Iggle Piggle or whatever Grandpa had recorded and then into the car. Apparently they stopped around midnight for a couple of hours kip for the adults and were on the tunnel train around 6 or 5.30 and driving down the A3 past Guildford around 7.30 this morning. They also drove overnight when they came here three weeks ago - tunnel around 10 pm and got here about 8.30 with a large bag of fresh croissants. Seems to work for them - when they came at the end of January for a long weekend though they flew Friday afternoon and returned Monday afternoon but there was nowhere near as much paraphernalia involved that time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have to report a first today. We got to the channel tunnel and the train left on time. Oh! and the price of diesel at Super U in Bourg st Maurice is 89p per litre
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Parking is usually free in France plus you can keep lunch , spare clothes, kid paraphernalia, sledges etc.
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Not very common these days; many resorts charge for parking, but La Rossiere has free parking fairly close to the lifts.
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There is still plenty of free parking in Serre Chevalier.
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Plenty of free parking in Les Saisies, too. Right in the centre the parking is paid for, thankfully, as otherwise you'd never find a space. But it's not expensive (just over a euro an hour, and 12 - 2 is free) and out of school holidays you can always find a spot within a few metres of the "front de neige" and boulangerie, supermarket, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just driven to Samoens in my vivaro for the first week of the easter holidays our costs were :
£85 Dfds dover to Dunkirk return
Road tolls were approx €70 each way
I used a tank full of diesel each way , if you fill up in France it's much cheaper €1.13 a litre at Carrefour and its a 90 litre tank on vivaros
Ferry 85
Road tolls £100.89
Diesel 146.58
Total 332.47
Hope this helps
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1. The tunnel cost Xmas times are much higher that normal, could be about £200 return, book well in advance, at least 2 months.
2. My roudtrip from North to Switzerland was 2000 miles, about £300 in fuel
3. Last time I had car brakedown in France near Reims, which costed me 3 days in the hotel and 700 eur for the car fix, make sure you got brakedown cover in Europe
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FAQ
This fill up will generally be from a superstore too.
