French mayors are furious after the 3rd weekend in a row of chaos on the regions roads. Last Saturday a rock blocked the access road to Val Thorens and les Menuires causing jams as far as Albertville and Ugine on Saturday. Despite a detour via a backroad, open only to downhill traffic until 18h, tailbacks leaving the resorts were huge. Some holiday makers hiked the 20km downhill with their bags. Several hundred escaped via ski lifts and by following ski runs on foot, over to Meribel; a kind of reenactment of Hanibal crossing the Alps, only with Samsonite suit cases.
The mayor of Albertville says "we had people coming to the town hall, they were taking 5 hours to cover the few km from the toll booth to Albertville, that would normally take 10 minutes. How come the prefect hasn't worked out some disaster plan? It is a total disaster, third time this winter, things can't go on like this" At Ugine "all the backroads were gridlocked, coaches stuck on side roads and me, I ask, what would the rescue services have done if there was an emergency? Police? I didn't see them, I don't know where they were, I don't know where they were hiding".
"The whole of Albertville was blocked, nobody could move, nobody, the local economy was paralized. The authorities were giving out incorrect information. How come with all the cameras etc they can't even give out correct information about the situation. Millions have been spent."
For local mayors the lessons of the 27th December have not been learned. A black day for the region when over 15,000 travellers were blocked on the roads and had to sleep in school halls or in spare rooms of friendly locals. The mayors have asked that the government puts the funds into keeping the areas roads clear to ski resorts.
Non-french drivers complained that there was no information available in English for example. The prefecture had no English speaker available when a Russian guest contacted them for information.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The rockfall happened on Friday. Time to check the stability of the slopes above and bring in arc lighting and to start clearing the debris overnight. Traffic downhill should have been filtered so there wasn't a complete gridlock coming down. Uphill traffic should have been filtered at Albertville with Val Thorens and les Menuires drivers being taken off the autoroute there and held until the road was clear, with food being available. That would have saved the gridlock at Moutiers which then backed up to Ugine.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Some holiday makers hiked the 20km downhill with their bags.
Some holiday makers hiked the 20km downhill with their bags.
I heard a different story how many holiday makers took their bags over the top from Val Thorens to Orelle. I gather the bags were carried up on piste bashers.
I gather the bags were carried up on piste bashers.
no piste bashers in site on the TV footage of either people on the pistes or people walking down the road to Moutiers.
tourists descending to Moutiers on foot, according to TF1 news on Saturday some covered 20km takiing the better part of the day to complete the journey.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
There are reports (unconfirmed) that Rockmageddon was inspired by this amazing incident in Taiwan involving a McBoulder, just beyond a drive-past McDonald's ...
But you are talking about France on a Saturday. All the road workers will have knocked off at 3pm on Friday not expecting to return until Tuesday.
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Blimey, what a mess. The Frenchies really need to get their act together.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Wow thats a bit of a poo-poo start to your transfer, hiking 20km with your bag down the road/ski slope!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I ran into this mess on my way back from the Pyreenes, just after the turnoff for the Mauriene valley. Not impressed 2.5 hours to reach Albertville.
Once off I amanged to get to the Ugine road ok, but only by using roads a coach won't fit along.
At 9pm it was still stationary on the road from Annecy as far as Ugine (maybe further, I went up the gorge).
Didn't see any police or autoroute service guys the whole time. At the toll booth there were (minor) fights breaking out when people tried to push in.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kat.ryb wrote:
Wow thats a bit of a poo-poo start to your transfer, hiking 20km with your bag down the road/ski slope!
Toboggans/sleds might have been useful for moving the luggage on parts of the journey....
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
This winter has certainly been difficult.
The big snowfalls have managed to coincide with Saturdays' changeover day.
The latest issue with the rock fall between Moutiers and St Martin de Belleville was probably difficult to predict - we are in the mountains after all. To give some credit there had been a rock fall just before the tunnel (just before Moutiers) but it happened mid-week and was cleared by Friday morning. Without radical change cramming 30,000 odd vehicles on to one road (the RN 90) is never going to be easy and it only takes one incident for everything to grind to a halt. Is there anywhere else in the Alps where effectlvely only (effectively) 1 road leads to c. 12 major ski resorts?
The police / gendarmerie needed to be much more pro-active. I saw them stopping cars leaving the RN90 at La Bathie but it really needed to be done much further back i.e. St Helene sur Isere (at the peage) and at Ugine to stop the vehicles trying to get to the Belleville valley from going further. It was on the radio the whole day that they wouldn't be allowed up until later in the afternoon. Drivers were far from blameless either ignoring the information on both the radio and overhead signs.
A radical solution would be to create the ultimate "park n'ride" scheme with coaches, train (as far as Bourg) from immense parking areas near St Helene. It would cut down on the pollution in the valley too - it's not just Chamonix and the Arve valley.
Thankfully I went to the Maurienne on Saturday and enjoyed some good skiing at Albiez-le-Vieux.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@marksavoie, I tried French radio once - never again
So I can understand people missing that
Park and Ride - well nice idea but would lose a lot of customers IMV. We self cater and aren't going to drag all our stuff onto a coach for last leg, we'd find another resort we could drive to
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The rockfall is probably hard to predict, less so the volume of intended traffic on a vacances scolaires Saturday.
Which makes you wonder about the sense of maintaining a single carriageway all the way along that valley. Given the income snowsports generates... Just sayin.
Snowmaggeddon? Look. It's the alps. It's winter. Why is anyone surprised it might snow a wee bit on a Saturday?? It's not as though it was particularly a lot of snow.
Heads should roll but I suspect it'll be trebles all round.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Boris, well French radio of course requires you to understand French so the overhead road signs and even traffic news may need to be in English too on Saturdays in the area - L’Académie Française will be up in arms!
Yup, Park n Ride would require a politician with some moral courage - and they can be probably counted on the fingers of one hand with about 4 to spare.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
As @marksavoie says, there was a solution which was for the authorities to be proactive and stop any traffic for the Belleville valley way at Albertville and stack them there rather than on the small stretch of road between the roundabout in Moutiers and Super U in Salins. The alternative road via St Laurent de Cote is not much more than a single lane for the most part so running it one way was the only option. The switch backs on the road are really tight too so no go for coaches. It's a bug to drive on when it snows too so I guess we should be thankful that it wasn't snowing on a Saturday for a change.
As with the 27th December and the 21st February, communication was lacking and boots on the ground even more so. In the age of social media surely it isn't beyond the wit of man to get information out via twitter and Facebook in a timely manner in the majority of languages involved.
Communication aside the gendarmes on the ground in Moutiers were doing a pretty good job under the circumstances.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
the overhead road signs and even traffic news may need to be in English too on Saturdays in the area
I can't imagine that the French for "road from Moutiers to BSM (or wherever) closed" would strain the linguistic abilities of too many British skiers. All those Lithuanian, Polish and Slovakian lorry drivers have to cope, after all.
The autoroute radio repeats important traffic news so often that anyone with O level French should catch up with the essentials and they sometimes do it in English too, at busy holiday times.
A lot of drivers (many of them French, presumably) seem to have been very stupid in carrying on regardless and adding to the chaos when they had no chance of reaching their destinations.
And is it any different on our major routes during the busy summer weekend changeovers?
Are the signs on the M20 in French as well?
Do we really expect massive investment on Motorways up narrow mountain passes for 4 busy Saturdays a year?
What would happen on the M6 if the police stopped everyone near Lancaster and said sorry this part of the Lake District is shut could you pull over and park here....mmmmm?
Why does everyone expect everything to work perfectly when they go abroad on holiday from the UK - where infrastructure is under strain 24/7?
Has a rockfall never happened anywhere else in the World?
Oh and where does this density of traffic happen in the UK at a height not far off the summit of Snowden?
It was all over social and official media (much of which was re-snowheaded on this site) - but it would appear to me that the FB generation are more keen on knowing what there uni mate of 6 years ago was doing in a bar at the other side of the World rather than doing something useful with social media.
I'm not saying lessons can't be learnt (and they will be) but I think a bit of perspective might help
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Central government continues to cut the budgets for road maintenance/surveillance to regions like the Rhone Alpes which have very specific needs and after years of cuts there is an inevitable knock on effect. Last year when the budgets for our infrastructure were cut again a local politician had to explain and justify why a department such as the Savoie needed a larger road maintenance budget than say Calvados. The cost of the rockfall near St Jean de Belleville on Saturday could have an impact on the local communes for the rest of the budgetary year. I did hear today that the cost of clearing the rock was around 100, 000€ and this pretty much wiped out the department's allocated budget for this kind of event in one go.
There is a lot of concern locally about the impact of the issues experienced this year on changeover days and communes are being asked to put forward ideas for contingency plans for the future.
On verra!
After all it is free
After all it is free
steph wrote:
There is a lot of concern locally about the impact of the issues experienced this year on changeover days and communes are being asked to put forward ideas for contingency plans for the future.!
One key item they could consider (but I doubt will!) is to scrap the idea of Saturday changeover days altogether. Actually allowing people to arrive/depart on a Friday, Sunday or Monday, would make life so much easier for everyone involved and reduce pressure massively with very little downside.
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@RobW, 2 problems.
1. That's how the French do things. And always have. (And always will at least as an intention)
2. The general and informal and casual infrastructure has grown around that so that many of the changeover staff we know are M-F office workers generating a little extra cash.
Tricky.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
That's how the French do things
Even the families with their own motorhomes tend to come and go on a Saturday. Completely nuts. We used to tease our French friends because even after they'd retired they would generally travel down to their (empty) apartment on a Saturday. They've stopped now - seen the light!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Club med is a French company and always transfer on Sundays.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
How about a bit of praise for a UK TO
I heard that ski World arranged overnight accommodation in Grenoble for their Saturday transfer clients as the knew they would not get VT. A TO doing something right doesn't get much coverage
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alastair Pink wrote:
kat.ryb wrote:
Wow thats a bit of a poo-poo start to your transfer, hiking 20km with your bag down the road/ski slope!
Toboggans/sleds might have been useful for moving the luggage on parts of the journey....
I'd have sledged on my case
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ah yes, I heard a lawyer say that once: "I sledge my case, m'lud.'
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
RobW wrote:
steph wrote:
There is a lot of concern locally about the impact of the issues experienced this year on changeover days and communes are being asked to put forward ideas for contingency plans for the future.!
One key item they could consider (but I doubt will!) is to scrap the idea of Saturday changeover days altogether. Actually allowing people to arrive/depart on a Friday, Sunday or Monday, would make life so much easier for everyone involved and reduce pressure massively with very little downside.
Try to rent a British holiday cottage and you'll very likely find they have a fixed changeover day. So they can manage adjacent bookings and so they can organise cleaning on a known schedule.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
chocksaway wrote:
And is it any different on our major routes during the busy summer weekend changeovers? etc etc
Huh? The remarks that this was a shambles come from French local authorities.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If we have an inch of snow in the Uk it's snowmagedon. If that rock had fallen on teh M6 in the Lake district there would have been one week for a risk assessment, three weeks to procure a contractor, two weeks to audit the procurement precedure, two weeks to CRB the digger driver, 5 weeks for the court procedings and eviction notice for the bunch of druids who have set up a camp around the rock claiming it to be a sacred site. 1 week to lay the cones, two days for the health and safety briefing, three days to ensure that there was no breach of equalities law in recruiting the driver, six weeks for the appeal from the person who didn't get the contract, two weeks for the consultants evaluation (£1million +expenses) from the recently set up Rockitas (owned by old Etonian and best mate of local Tory Mp) 1 afternoon for the press shoot of local politicians in suits and Barber wellies standing on the rock with glasses of champagne, celebrating the impending rock removal and thanking the emergency services.2 weeks to remove the Banksy that has appeared on teh rock showing a cash machine with a queue of local contractors, consultants and business withdrawing cash from the rock. A to week delay whilst a specialist digger sourced as the original didn't work because it was 'The wrong kind of rock' The rock is then pushes over the edge and the road repaired between tea breaks. The local politician then sets up a 15million pound public inquiry vowing to ensure 'heads will roll' and this type of thing must never happen again. The BC then wets itself over the prospect of another government investigation and spends £20 million covering the enquiry including a £5 million base camp in the lake district where cold looking reporters stand in front of large rocks discussing which ministerial heads will roll..........................................
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ageing, one hit wonder, French rock band Le deafening have announced they holding a 'rock aid' concert in the Alberville valley in June to raise funds for victims of the disaster to coincide with the release of their greatest hits album and the launch of the Autobiography of their lead singer Pascal Flatulence 'To Be a Rock and Not to Roll'
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
eviction notice for the bunch of druids who have set up a camp around the rock claiming it to be a sacred site.
2 weeks to remove the Banksy that has appeared on teh rock showing a cash machine with a queue of local contractors, consultants and business withdrawing cash from the rock
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
cameronphillips2000 - now I know where Australian Authorities learnt their skills - the poms!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Layne wrote:
Blimey, what a mess. The Frenchies really need to get their act together.
I think that's very unfair. As others have said, imagine the Monday chaos if the M25 was put out completely out of action by a natural event such as a big sink hole.
The road there does suffer from landslides. Mainly small and the really dangerous parts they have tunnel covers over the roads. I've seen small rocks whizz past me when I cycle up there. Large falls are very rare.
So when a 50 ton boulder falls onto the road on a Friday, anyone would have a real problem.
Given that this happens rarely, you can't keep a geological survey and road fixing team on 24 hour standby. As it was they had to survey that nothing else was going to come down, secure that area and then move a 50 ton boulder - which isn't easy and repair the road. They did it pretty quickly considering.
Now for the traffic. On the Saturday morning you have many tens of thousands of cars heading down and many tens of thousands of cars heading up a blocked road that all comes from a single autoroute. Where do you think they can put all those cars? The only car park is the autoroute.
Given that this was known about on the Friday and French radio was relaying the situation anyone joining the autoroute and hitting the jams had only themselves to blame.
We emailed the people on the way down to hiring our apartment and they sensibly headed off before the traffic - which was the official advice on the VT / Les Meniures websites and being given out on France Bleu Savoie. And if you head off to a foreign country and complain that you didn't hear the warnings because yo can't speak the local language then there is a bit of darwinian effect coming into play.
I can see why the local people are annoyed but when you have a system that the weeks tourist traffic is condensed into one day and the various resorts are serviced by fragile, weather sensitive mountain routes then these things happen.
The real solution would be for a move away from the single changeover day. But I can't see that happening as everything is geared around it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Leading city star hedge fund manager Edward Barrington-lady's front bottom was seen leaving his 19 million swiss Franc chalet today after its was confirmed he was paid a £20m Euro bonus for his recent success on futures trading in the rock removal and associated industries business. Edward was with staying with his friends, local politicians and directors of rockitas consultants on 'Le pushit' plant hire. All for were seen wandering up the mountain with a vary large plank of wood and a large triangular, pivot shaped, block block. Both of these had ACME written on the side. Shares in ACME rose 45% on this news citing promising developments in their landslip sector.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
so the overhead road signs and even traffic news may need to be in English too on Saturdays in the area - L’Académie Française will be up in arms!
All those Lithuanian, Polish and Slovakian lorry drivers have to cope, after all.
.
