 Poster: A snowHead
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We recently had our first skiing holiday and absolutely loved it and can't wait until the next one. I have arthritis in both knees and my right hip. However, I had no pain at all in my knees and in fact the pain I had was in my supposedly good hip. I found doing right turns no problem at all but left turns I just couldn't bring my left leg parallel with my right and felt that it was just dragging behind like a piece of meat (for want of a better description lol).
I'm female, 5'8" and 66kg and from what I've read I should be using skis of around 160cm. It has been suggested to me that a shorter ski as low as 153cm would help give me more control in my left leg and help me to progress further.
I just wondered if people would agree with that or have any other suggestions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Generally, shorter skis make skiing on piste easier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, I'd say that's a good idea. And beginners would generally use shorter skis anyway. And, of course, some of the problem could be caused by technique rather than a bad hip. Most of us have one turn better than the other. If you've only just had your first holiday don't be too hard on yourself - nobody learns to ski in a week.
My other suggestion would be to arrange your next holiday as soon as possible - maybe a last minute Easter effort?  And book some really good lessons - they are not all equal.
Great that you had no bother with your knees.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have very tight hips which can lead to knee, lower back and hip pain. Not sure if you already do this but I attend a few stretch classes every week and focus mainly on the hip area, amazing how much the extra flexibility helps all of my pains. ITB's may need extra attention as these are really hard to improve flex, only real way is using a roller which is incredibly painful but very beneficial!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A bike is great for strength and stamina work but won't help with flexibility. Not sure how to explain the roller, it's a foam roll that you can use for various mobility and stretch exercises. Probably best of Googling it. Just try and find some stretch classes or Pilates, yoga etc. In my experience these kind of exercise programs will help so much with aching bones and joints. I'm no professional so probably fest to take proper advice elsewhere, I'm just pointing you in a direction I chose which could probably help you. Cheers!
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*cough* Snowboarding *cough*
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Found the rollers thanks Tony and I'm looking to get booked into a class of some kind......it can only help but I've just put it off for too long
Richard....you'll have to do more than *cough* to convince a 50yr old granny to get on a snowboard lol
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Netty, I'll see your 50 years and raise you to 82, which was the age of the Lady I met in Mt Baker who was learning to snowboard, after she'd given up skiing in her 60s because of her arthritis. She was learning as she'd seen her grandson snowboarding and said "It just looked so graceful".
Snowboarding is perfect for people with joint issues, as it puts hardly any torsional stress on joints, and it gets the muscles to take the load in the directions they are used to operating in - up and down, forwards and backwards. As soft boots are easier to walk in, you're less likely to hurt yourself when moving around too. People will bang on about falling over, and yes, you will fall when learning, but as you're falling without twisting you're less likely to damage joints or ligaments and simple knee padding, impact shorts and wrist guards can help. I've met loads of older snowboarders over the years who had to give up skiing because of knee damage.
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| Quote: |
you'll have to do more than *cough* to convince a 50yr old granny to get on a snowboard lol
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I learnt to snowboard as a much more than 50 year old granny but have now, as a 68 year old one, given it up in favour of gentle piste cruising on skis, at which I am a good deal more competent as I did have some spectacular crashes on the snowboard (it's far easier to get up than it is one skis, provided you are still in one piece). Snowboarding is indeed good for your knees as long as you don't fall getting off a chairlift with only one foot in the binding.  Loads of torque......
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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NETTY..................... A competent ski shop, in equal breath competent, experienced instructor - one that/who viscerally knows - without going overboard as it were would first take a look at your stance to see if your left leg is not offset to the outside to a point whereupon it naturally is creating a wider radius as per such a possible stance and if so to cure this possible problem the left boot might v. well benefit from its collar being canted (if the boot has that provision which some do). Before any concern regarding length of ski, the skier's stance should be examined to see if they are aligned properly within their boots with a slight weight or offset accent toward the inside, forcing slighter pressure on their inside edge on both legs which thusly favors easier turn initiation/capability and stability. I'd look into that first and then go from there.
In terms of skis for you I would first and last look for a ski regardless of length that possessed a combination of softer flex and low radius numeric. In other words a ski whose flex does not require a lot of "muscle" - speed to make it flex aided and abetted by a short radius - "turny" nature and most certainly not some ***uber wide ski. Such skis v. much exist such as Atomic's Cloud Series for women in their Seven or Nine offering and they are good up to around 35mph - to 40mph before they effectively wash out and it strikes me you are not into speed, so, such design is ideally suited for someone such as yourself. Take what has been said into consideration and see if you can't make matters better.
*** The wider the ski the greater the hip offset and hip torque load throughout the entire turn function - beginning and end. Your skiing needs ask for a ski that will not inherently demand this as wide skis inherently do.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks everyone for your input. It's certainly given me plenty to consider and maybe if the opportunity arises I'll have a little taster session on a snowboard (with a few layers of bubblewrap). I think I'm aiming more for Pam's style of gentle piste skiing at the moment and building my technique and confidence more.
Equinoxranch.........I will definitely look into getting my stance checked. This does make a lot of sense to me and is something that hadn't even crossed my mind.
With all this great advice I'm sure our next ski trip will be even better 
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@Netty, Right turns will be OK because you are loading up your left leg and hip. You should have a full hip to foot stance check by a qualified podiatrist who might be able to recommend remedial action which could make a significant improvement for you, not only when skiing but also generally.
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You know it makes sense.
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After rehab from a serious knee injury (fractured tibial plateau involving 7 screws and a plate plus ruptured ligaments and displaced meniscus) I found it easier skiing on longer, straighter skis. It was a long time before I could ski a SL ski with confidence. This was totally non-intuitive and not what I expected.
My advice is to (via a hire shop) try various pairs of skis. Longer and shorter. Straighter and turnier. Explain your situation to the shop and let then help you find what what suits best.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Back on-topic again
A shorter ski may be easier to turn than a longer version OF THAT SAME SKI. But the flex pattern of the ski, amount of rocker in the tip and the sidecut radius all contribute to the ski's handling on the snow. THe more extreme the sidecut (i.e. the smaller the radius), the more grabby the tips are and turnier the skis get. Same goes for shorter skis.
So, shorter, small radius skis turn easy, but tend to get unstable when at speed and are not very good confidence-builders when making bigger turns or skiing steeper slopes. Most people try and get a stiffer ski with the same dimensions to compensate for this problem. But a stiffer ski means harder work and bigger forces to be used to bend the ski and make nice round turns.
In stead, I would suggest a bit longer ski (for stability) with some tip rocker (forgiving in uneven snow) with a full side-wall (for grip), not too small a radius (> 14 mtr) and fairly soft in flex (no metal, for exampe). This makes for a stable, forgiving ski that carves every turn shape and ensures light and confient skiing. For example Fischer Motive 80 (in 168 I think) or Fischer Koa 88 TI (also 168). I recommend Fischer, because of the 30 or so skis I tested over the past two seasons, they make the skis I tried to describe here (the same thing I'm after, but the male, slightly bigger version).
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Netty I don't want to flame the above advice about skis, but there is absolutely no point in messing around with different skis (which might even exacerbate your condition!) until what you describe to be an underlying physical condition is properly diagnosed and remedial action taken.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Netty, [b]@Netty[/b ... Oh dear ... You must be rather torn by all this contradictory advice.
There are some principles to giving advice here ...
What is the aspiration - piste cruising, high speed blasting, steep narrow couloir
What is the motivation - how committed to improvement is the person
What is the level of attainment - the competence in skiing (sometimes wrongly called 'ability level')
Are there any confounding factors - temporary injury to overcome, fear, permanent impairment
Opportunity - skiing six months a year, dry slope in the garden, skis once a year for two weeks
Cost - what is possible
From what I can glean from your (netty's) responses:
Aspiration - gentle but technically-competent cruising
Motivation - committed to improvement
Level of attainment - not clear - I'd need to see it, but understands basics of tight turns etc
Confounding factors - underlying restriction (arthritis) plus possible restriction from bad habits in technique
Opportunity - roughly two weeks' per weeks
Cost - not clear
Without chatting and observing technique, I'd say - In my view a shorter ski with a tighter radius (10-12m) would be very useful here (goodness knows what was being thought when someone said 'a longer ski would be good on steep ground' - she does not seem to be aspiring to nail La Grave. I coach people with injury and a shorter ski can be very useful in facilitating turning and rebuilding technique.
I have used 148 k2s with someone of netty's build and restrictions, and sometimes a salomon 145 and these have helped massively with technique-building. The exercises are limited to tight turns on easy ground, progressing to more difficult, steep and or icy ground, depending on aspiration and progress. No blasting around at 50 kph, but this does not seem to be what Netty is interested in. This use of short skis lays the basics and the person can then experiment with longer skis.
If there is an underlying impairment which cannot be overcome - eg joint restriction, nerve damage (I've worked with people who have serious nerve damage after accident) then they may need to stick with a shorter ski but recognise its limitations. Enjoyment tends to go up hugely along with motivation and technique.
If you want some coaching from people experienced with this kind of restriction from injury or illness try dave Morris at new gen courchevel or Carole at swiss mountain sports in Crans montana.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| valais wrote: |
| If there is an underlying impairment which cannot be overcome ... |
... which cannot be known until there is a proper diagnosis.
@Netty As it happens I am 67 years old and have the x-rays taken from the many times when I have broken bones when road racing motorcycles (which I still do) which reveal that I have extensive arthritis spurs throughout my body. From time to time I have trauma induced arthritic flareups for which, after having had full medical assessments, I have strategies to deal with. I don't even try moguls any more because I know my knees are not up to it. Knowledge is everything.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@irie, I agree entirely ... Important to have any underlying problems diagnosed as a basis for support and action.
My own injury tally has affected what I do when and how and with what|
Rotator cuff injury 2014
Broken back 2006
Grade 3 shuolder separation 2006
Broken collar bone 2000
Left ACL 1986 and 1988
The ACL means I have to be careful with wide waisted skis and long days in the soft stuff. Do-able but I have to restrict it. But all the injuries have had good medical diagnosis and support to rehabilitate as rapidly as possible - the ACL was looked at by George Bentley of all people - about 15 years ago, and he simply commended trying to do as much climbing, cycling and skiing as possible - he looked at the x Rays and said 'hmmm...stress it...lots...the muscle should build up nicely and protect it...' - so that's what I do - although it blows up like a football after a couple of days of hammering around off piste...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FAQ
We would really love to have some good lessons too as unfortunately the instructor we had was awful and we did better when on our own and at our own pace. I also think you've hit the nail on the head as far as my technique goes lol
stitched muck into my wrist which became so severely infected that it necessitated 3 Generals in 5 days to try to stop the infection spreading. 
