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Edgie Wedgie/ tip clips for teaching littlies yay or nay?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
4yo son has been having some private lessons at hemel which have been ok but he is struggling ti master snowplough and turns. Daughter now aged 6 learned with an excellent ESF instructor wuth tip clips and it was great. Would I be unreasonable to ask the hemel instructor to use these with my son ? He just doesn't seem to be getting the verbal instructions. He is quite a young four and I think he needs to learn through doing ...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I was always a big fan back in the days when I was teaching little ones regularly. Awesome for getting them moving and feeling how a plough works. After a while you 'accidentally' forget to clip them together at some point, and generally they barely notice and keep ploughing on...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It is very common for 4 year olds to be unable to make and hold a snowplough. Sometimes this is because they don't get it, or other times just that the don't have the coordination or strength to make the necessary movements. I agree that learning through doing at that age is a good idea.

The edgie wedgie might help - I've never used one so can't really comment - but wouldn't want to have this sprung on me at the start of a group lesson. If you want to go that route I'd mention it when booking and request an instructor who is familiar with them, but this might mean you have to start booking private lessons rather than group ones. There are plenty of other things that instructors can do to help young ones with snowploughs, so I'd hope they'd be able to help him progress even without an edgie wedgie.

At that age the most important thing though is that he is having fun. Even if he's not progressing through the levels or able to hold a snowplough, he's learning a lot about sliding, balance, etc. which is all good stuff. And if he's enjoying it he'll keep coming back until the snowplough is a distant memory.
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^ yip - I used 'eedgie weedgies' lots when teaching small kids on the dry slope.
Small kids often don't concept of turning feet in to hold a snow plough.

The great thing with edgie weedgies is that you can hold onto their tips and ski backwards in front of them.
This allows the kid to quickly get miles on their skis. However it requires 1:1 tuition.
Then whip them off and (hopefully) your good to go.....
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

The great thing with edgie weedgies is that you can hold onto their tips and ski backwards in front of them

but you can do that without edgie wedgies - I am interested in some way of avoiding having to ski backwards holding their skis.....
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Thanks everyone. It is private lessons he's been having so I think I will ask his instructor if he would mind using them next time. He is fairly co-ordinated and can (nearly) ride a bike and has been scootering since 23 months.

There is a bit of time pressure as at easter we've booked the two kids one instructor between them. Daughter can snowplough, turn and stop and I'd like him to be able to do that by the time we go in 5 weeks' time. Daughter really got it very quickly when she was a similar age so I am willing him on ...
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w wrote:
Quote:

The great thing with edgie weedgies is that you can hold onto their tips and ski backwards in front of them

but you can do that without edgie wedgies - I am interested in some way of avoiding having to ski backwards holding their skis.....


For sure : you can..... however edgie-weedgies make it *way* easier to control their speed by just holding their ski tips.
On gentle terrain you can lift hands off after a few moments and they should stay in a plough (as tips cant diverge).
Very quickly they will be skiing without your help - which is the aim ?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
get some reins...used to come with the original edgie wedgie and they help ensure you control their speed and can help remind them which ski to load when learning too.

Once they have some control and can form the snowplough you can ski backwards not holding their skis but there to catch them if you need to....then ski side by side making the same pizza and chips shapes or they can hold your poles on one end, you on the other and do the same. Mine loved the fact you were by their side when we were teaching them.

You can also maneuver them around a little if really light by hooking your pole on the wedgie.

great little aid on my opinion
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We find that small boys tend not to pick things up as quickly as small girls, and I would not be at all surprised at an only just 4 year old boy not getting the idea of a plough - we don't teach younger than 5, and there are quite a few 5 year old boys who take an age to hold a snowplough.
I haven't used an edgy wedgy, but there are quite a few occasions where I would have done had I had one, so I would ask the instructor to use one.
Usually once kids have felt the right movement it's much easier for them to replicate it. It is hard to explain things to a 4 year old, they need to feel it or copy it, really. My colleague's son spent a lot of time watching his older brother, and skiing with someone olding his tips together, but not getting the plough himself at all, until suddenly one day he just spontaneously pushed off and ploughed. He was nearly 3, and brother was 5, but Daddy is a ski instructor with unlimited access to a dry slope!
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What length skis is he on? If its anything longer than 80cm, I'd reduce it (and possibly even take him down to 70cm) as a first step.

With both my children (and friends' kids), starting short so they could develop a good feel for the skis has worked well. My 4-yr old daughter has skied quite a lot (c. 5 weeks by Xmas this year), moved up to 77cm at Xmas, and 90cm this Feb. A friend's 120cm tall/25kg 6-yr old son was initially on 116cm this trip, and moving down to 100cm did wonders for his skiing.

My son (7) has learnt to ski with minimal explanation, he just copies his instructor. This has, so far, been incredibly successful. Trying to explain things to a young child seems challenging - simple concepts such as inside and outside edge, or uphill and downhill ski, sometimes feel like trying to teach them algebra.
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I have just spent all week skiing with my three (soon four) year old nephew. Same situation, my sister is slightly disappointed that he couldn't manage a plough. As already stated it's not at all unusual for children of that age to not have the strength and/or coordination to hold a plough. He understood perfectly what I wanted him to do but he just couldn't do it. No problem, we had a lot of fun.

I don't like aids like reins and tip clips. If a parent (including my sister!) asked me to use them I would politely say no. I prefer to just take it at whatever pace is possible with just skis and on terrain which is manageable and fun for them even if that means "almost flat".
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w wrote:
Quote:

The great thing with edgie weedgies is that you can hold onto their tips and ski backwards in front of them

but you can do that without edgie wedgies - I am interested in some way of avoiding having to ski backwards holding their skis.....

MiniShep (3 1/2) struggling to find her plough, as a result of this thread I made the webbing-strap+buckle version you can see on amazon etc., from an old backpack strap. Adjusting the length of the strap to allow my tip to pass between hers, means you can snow-plough backwards upright, with her strap hooked around your toe binding (A tip from a US website that I can't seem to find again). This allows you to control her speed and direction on a gradient where she can feel how the snowplough works. Good results so far and I think after a few sessions she'll be ready to go solo Smile ! Obviously not for everybody, but it seems to be working for us.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@shep, could this be the US series you saw, see lesson 5 for the edgy wedgy demo and 6 for using the harnes.

http://www.teachchildrenskiing.com/

But obviously he most important thing to take from this series is the need for pink kit for girls!

Our 4 year old has used the edgie weedgy in the past, I have used it with her and some of her instructors have used it but not all of them. She does not like using it as she doesnt see many other skiers use them and so its not what skiers do. (Same story as not being given poles like everyone else). But she seems to be getting there in terms of making the plough and doing getting turns linked. Happy for her to learn at the own pace and want to be on the slopes rather than not being happy if being forced to use the edgie wedgy.

Our son never used it when he learnt (started about 4 1/2).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
2 comments

1) In the past when I have used Edgie-Wedgies teaching kids I have used them for a short / limited period of time.
Usually just for 3 or 4 runs to get some miles on their skis. The idea is to get them used to holding a plough shape so they can do it themselves.

2) Reins / harness is a bad idea IMHO. It would affect their body management and doesn't promote using the plough as primary method to control speed ?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yup @ster, that's the one, thanks! @Haggis_Trap, Good advice, so far we've just done two longish runs and already seeing progress. I think one or two more sessions should be enough. As Rich says in ster's link, the harness is not good as a teaching tool, but can have its place as a safety device once they're out and about on the mountain! Personally I'm thinking of using the dog's whizzy-lead when we get to that stage Shocked !
Edit: clipped to her belt not a collar, obviously wink snowHead
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Loving all this feedback! For me personally we used Edgie Wedgies for a bit, but the Slope Ropes helped more. She grew tired of the Edgie Wedgies quickly. We didn't like most 'learn to ski' devices because (ironically) they teach you to ski incorrectly! Those backpacks pull back on your shoulders! We wanted to do what we could to encourage bent knees, and noes-knees-toes.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My daughter refused to snowplow for her first 10 days or so. I wasn't sure if she was unable or unwilling. We spent 20 minutes playing 'red light green light' with an edge wedge on (they can still parallel in one) until she got the concept.

Can you spend some time with your child outwith lessons?

I still keep it along with a harness (just in case) when I take her skiing up the big hill with me. If we get into steep terrain, or trails with a steep drop on one side we put them both on just to get down to the easier bits. It means she can get to more of the hill and more secluded areas.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Neither of our two (4 & 6) have used them, but then they've been in lessons. We have the reigns (Nipper Grippers) but we've not used them other than a convenient hand hold to haul them upright and really don't need them for that anymore. Both are still in that 'Furious Snowplough' stage, but they're enjoying it and thats what counts.
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@sask, Welcome to snowHeads!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I was astonished how my 5 year old granddaughter learnt at Christmas in an entirely French speaking group on terrible snow. From observing 6 grandchildren over the years I conclude that kids are ready to learn at different ages, both because of physical ability and wider resilience. Id say that a 4 year old who has had the opportunity but can't ride a bike is probably not ready to learn to ski, really and will do far better in another year. I have a 3 year old granddaughter who will be 4 the last day of their forthcoming Easter ski holiday. She's been riding a bike with considerable skill but a lack of care and attention for months. At Christmas she did some "hands on knees" sliding with parents but really wasn't interested in skiing, notwithstanding the brilliant progress of big sister. She just wanted to play in the snow and she didn't mind how grotty and rotten it was. She had a lovely holiday but would have been miserable in a ski kindergarten. If kids really want to ski, and are ready, they will learn astonishingly fast. Too often parents seem to be looking for child care options, rather than ensuring the kids have lots of fun.

We have decided that Beth's birthday will be brought forward a week as she's said she wants to ski when she's 4! she has an already 4 year old cousin and well organise a couple of private lessons for them, and see how it goes. Both have very competent fathers who can take them out if they want to do more.
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