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Intersport Chamonix Want to Charge for Damaged Ski Binding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello fellow skiers/Boarders,
I wonder if I can ask your expert opinion if I may please?
I am on a skiing holiday in Chamonix France at present, I have hired a pair of Head skis from Intersport Chamonix, however I did not take out Intersport's insurance for ski damage or ski theft.
I have just returned from a day's skiing and I have noticed that on one ski, the binding is pulling out of the ski where the binding mounting screws secure the binding to the ski.
I have been skiing for over thirty years and have never had any problems with skis being damaged previously. I haven't fallen heavily this week. ( I have had many heavy falls on previous skiing holidays but have never suffered any ski damage)
I have returned the skis to Intersport Chamonix and they would like to charge me 200 euros to replace the skis. In my opinion the ski damage has occurred either due a manufacturing defect or due to normal wear and tear.
I don't feel inclined to pay the 200 euros to Intersport, but I am unsure as to what is reasonable or acceptable in these circumstances, or what my rights are.
According to the terms of our ski hire the skis could be up to 5 years old, so I also don't feel inclined to pay what I believe to be the price of new pair skis. The Intersport ski deal was their low cost deal.
Obviously I have ski holiday insurance and according to the terms of my insurance I am covered for the skis, but I do have to pay an excess of £80.00.
I would like to get the opinion of some experienced skiers as I haven't ever had a situation like this.before.
I do have a couple of photos of the damage but I don't seem to able attach them to this post., for some reason.
I have to return to the ski hire shop in the morning to resolve this situation.

Kind Regards,
Jon
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Your description is that the binding is pulling away from the ski appears to suggest that the mounting screws are working loose, either that or the screw has ripped out of the ski, either way I don't see how this can be your problem UNLESS you've had a major fall and the ski has suffered impact damage. Are all the other screws tight? If not it looks like they've not been provided in a fit for purpose state, did they physically check them in front of you before you took them, if not then maybe the mounting screws were loose and you could argue that. If so you are batting on a sticky wicket.

Personally I never hire skis but do maintain my own and checking the tightness of the mounting screws is of major importance.....

Hope that helps. Difficult to be specific without photos. Good luck.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi,
Thanks for your quick reply. Just to clarify the screws have pulled out the ski, the bindings didn't feel loose at any point. There isn't any obvious impact damage to the skis just normal scratches from a few days skiing
I haven't been off piste just reds and blacks all week
Thanks
Jon
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If you know in your heart that you've not had a serious crash/impact or damaged the skis and they have just ripped out then argue it. Under normal use, if a binding rips out it's most likely that the is a fault with the ski or the way the binding was mounted. Also consider if they ripped out under normal use and you injured yourself. that would have opened up a can of liability stew.

As @Markymark29, implies..guess work without seeing the skis or photos. Madeye-Smiley


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 12-02-15 21:16; edited 1 time in total
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I would also check the age of the skis after all if they are a few years old then they are getting close to the end of their life and the hire shop would sell them off pretty cheap or just bin them.
If you are having problems in the morning just tell the shop you need to inform your insurers and they may well ask to inspect the skis before paying out as it may be they were dangerous and not fit for purpose ( after all insurers do like to limit their loss ).

As the others have said hard to give real solid advice without pictures but unless really catastrophic I would expect they may well be able to remount the bindings.
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Hi,
I do have 2 photos but I can't identify how you upload the photos every time I click on the 'img' icon or select the 'alt p'
It just posts img in a txt format
If someone can let me know what I'm doing wrong when I attempt to attach the photos then I can upload them
Thanks
Jon
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Read this guide re uploading photos.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=25601
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If you do end up paying 200 euros to replace them, you will naturally keep the skis, which can probably be remounted with the bindings.

I'd just keep arguing the toss, worst case if they are adamant pay on credit card and cancel when home.
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You need to upload the pics to an image sharing site, like Photobucket, then copy and paste to here.
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Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 13-02-15 20:12; edited 1 time in total
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Dot. wrote:
If you know in your heart that you've not had a serious crash/impact or damaged the skis and they have just ripped out then argue it. Under normal use, if a binding rips out it's most likely that the is a fault with the ski or the way the binding was mounted. Also consider if they ripped out under normal use and you injured yourself. that would have opened up a can of liability stew.

As @Markymark29, implies..guess work without seeing the skis or photos. Madeye-Smiley


This - if you've been cruising pistes (or even charging pistes) it's VERY unlikely that a binding would rip out without a fault in the skis or mount.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@jonnyboy95, nah. Never ever heard of this happening unless catastrophically. Shop's fault. Nothing, repeat nothing, you could do to trigger it. Suggest taking skis to gendarmerie/equivalent with senior shop tech for "insurance statement" ...

See what happens then...
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Hi All,
I followed the sticky for uploading photos onto the sister site but there was no calender visible and no upload button, so I have used photobucket hopefully the 2 photos are visible for anyone to view.
Kind Regards,
Jon[/url]
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jonnyboy95, looks to me like you've had a major incident, or run them over by a ski bus?! Pay your dues is my advice....
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Unless....they are really old skis and they have just failed ! Only you know what's happened, if it's definitely a ski failure fight your corner as above.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi Markymark29,
thanks for response, however I have not had a 'major incident' or had them 'run over' by a ski bus. I would have some big bruises if I had.

Kind Regards,
Jon
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Those pictures don't look to me like they show "the screws have pulled out the ski". If "the screws have pulled out the ski" I wouldn't expect to see all that cracking. It looks more like a whole section of the upper surface, to which the bindings are attached, is lifting. (I'm not an expert though.)
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Looks unrepairable to me. It all comes down to the contract terms -- what does it say specifically regarding your liability for damage ? If this includes accidental damage (even if you have not had an accident or been negligent in any way) what is the specified maximum liability - repair or replacement? If the latter then try to obtain a valuation given the model, age and wear on the skis. Additionally, call your credit card company (the one you used to pay upfront or for the deposit), if the cost was over £100 they could take up the matter on your behalf under Consumer Credit legislation -- however, I am not sure how this would apply outside of the UK -- they can tell you.

Ps. Have you been having lessons this week - if so, ask your ski instructor (especially if ESF). They may be willing to intervene on your behalf.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 12-02-15 22:56; edited 1 time in total
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To me that looks like an internal structural failure either through a delamination (glue / bonding not of sufficient strength) and / or the binding fixing being loose to allow a localised high stress point to exceed the materials design limitations.
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@jonnyboy95, I reckon these are maybe an old pair of skis? If so then it could well be structural failure of the core etc due to age..... that's what I'd maintain if I were you, sorry for any offence above but it's really wierd, they'll likely come at you so you'll need to stand your ground and maybe if it's gets nasty say something like they are only worth 100€, 3-4 years old etc so I'll do a 50/50 etc? Have you tried googling the make/ model to see how old they are, if more than 2 years old hire skis are pretty well valueless on their books......and you should get away with a nominal charge I suggest. Good luck!
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@jonnyboy95, OK I think you've got a Head REV 2013 ski maybe with a Dalbello binding? This is a beginner/ intermediate ski. If you've been hammering these on reds and blacks you've been possibly taking them to/ beyond their designed comfort factor, and for a long period they've just structurally failed due to the high pressures applied for prolonged periods. You've been pushing forwards, the rear has structurally failed, split the core.....end of....not your fault, you weren't hired the right ski, plus it could have been really dangerous and you were lucky. Go hard at them if they get difficult.......by the way these skis are on the web c/w bindings new at about £200 new, so 2 seasons old, worth not much, they'll have well paid their way by now. Hope that helps.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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Hi Markymark,
Thankyou and everyone else for taking the time to reply to post I really do appreciate the time and effort that people have taken to reply to me.
The skis are Head Era 3.0 with a Tyrola binding they don't look that old. As I've said I haven't been off piste just down reds and blacks I haven't got any serious bruises and I haven't any serious wipe outs. I am an engineer by trade and I suspect that the binding has either been over tightened at some point in the past or that the ski has just failed structurely as you say.
I just think I've been unlucky, it's just unfortunate that I have try and sort this out with the ski shop.
Thanks again for all the replies and advise
Kind Regards,
Jon
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I agree with ski3

"...To me that looks like an internal structural failure either through a delamination (glue / bonding not of sufficient strength) and / or the binding fixing being loose to allow a localised high stress point to exceed the materials design limitations..."

Binding has 'lifted' splitting the side-wall. ::

Difficult situation for you tho' -- good luck.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
looks to me from the pictures that the ski has suffered an impact in the past, for the top sheet to crack like that i would expect a heavy impact possibly being hit side on so that the binding was being forced upwards away from the ski

biggest issue is proving it either way, especially as you didn't take their insurance you have probably signed to say you are responsible for any damage and as you didn't check them thoroughly at the beginning etc etc ... a bit like trying to prove the dent in the bumper of the hire car was there and you didn't notice it due to all the dirt on it

good luck
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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So the binding screws are not loose. The binding has basically had some sort of impact or pressure to such force that it has ripped open the structure/core.

Rather like one of those chipboard screws pulling out of cheap flat pack furniture.

As you say unless it was obvious when it happened its hard to say or more importantly to prove what the cause is.

I would be inclined to stand your ground and have them take it up with the manufacturer. That shouldn't happen under normal skiing conditions.

Spyderjon

What do you think?
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Hi Spyderjohn,
that's a good analogy with regards to the flat pack furniture, and pretty accurately describes the damage.
This morning I had been discussing that the most likely scenario was that the ski had been weakened during a previous user's accident and that I've just been unlucky. As you say I will have to stand my ground with regards to this matter with the hire shop.
The terms of the hire do state that I must return the skis to the shop in the condition they were given to me, but I'm not responsible for a manufacturing defect, or for them failing during normal use because they have weakened previously or for them failing due to wear and tear, but that is going to be a sticking point with the hire shop as I think we will beg to differ on the matter.

Kind Regards,
Jon
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
..


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 13-02-15 20:12; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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Hi Zorrac,
yes I have been in gondolas with ski slots on the outside, that's interesting that you've seen damage caused by the outside ski holders.
I've been skiing many times and never had an issue like this before.

Kind Regards,
Jon
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jonnyboy95, hmmm, now I see the pictures....

Agree it's likely Head REV 70 ski. (Evo 3 is marketing piffle). New on eBay for $179 with bindings. Shop probably paid €50 for them and can recycle the bindings.

From your pictures, if I was the shop, I would be holding my line that you broke them. It looks like they've been overstressed. I've had a pair of Rossi 9XOs do the same (which are a premium ski, and my own, and I knew exactly what they'd experienced in their lifetime - but I ski bumps a lot).

Now, whether overstressed means beyond the skis design limits or beyond the manaufactured limits of that ski (i.e. not manufactured properly) are two very different thing and - unfortunately for you - proving that it wasn't caused by anything you did is going to be tricky.

- Will your travel insurance not cover you?

- you could take them into a non-Intersport shop and get a second opinion, written if possible (or record the conversation on your mobile wink ) although you may find the Chamonix mafia closes ranks... try Concept Pro down behind the Aiguille du Midi lift - they are at least independent and know their kit.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Where's he gone..... maybe the hire shop has marched him down to the local Guillotine wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Surely it's quite like car hire isn't it?

You sign receipt of the car with any damage recored by both parties and then any additional/new damage that's there when you return it is down to you whether you were aware of the damage being caused or not.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I always take the extra insurance - it's not much, for peace of mind.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Last year I damaged one of my own skis and had to hire for a day whilst they were being repaired.

5 minutes into the day I hit a small loose rock that had kicked up on the piste. I thought nothing of it as it was very small.

On my next stop I took a look at the base and there was a great big gouge

Shocked Shocked

Fessed up to the hire shop and the same guy id hired off earlier in the day just smiled and said no worries.

No insurance taken.

I've had hire shops try it on before as per the OP.

It's up to the individual shop and probably what side of bed they got out of Toofy Grin


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 14-02-15 20:35; edited 1 time in total
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Did the shop kill jonny? Shocked
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