The avalanche risk in SW Switzerland was at 4 on both Friday and Saturday.
There's an interesting insight in the piece from the head of security at TeleVerbier in relation to the fatality in the Vallon D'arbi on Thursday. Those who know it will know that there are two physical barriers to cross if it is closed. 5 French skiers without avalanche equipment did so and set off an avalanche. As the rescue operation was underway TeleVerbier posted a person at the entrance to the Vallon to prevent anyone else entering and exposing the rescue services to risk. This person was abused by a number of skiers for preventing them getting into the Vallon.
Quite incredible that people should be so ignorant and lack any sense of perspective.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 2-02-15 9:18; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Steve Sparks, dreadful on the casualties. Astonished by the idiocy of the latter individuals.
Dreadful news. But the stupidity of those who abused the guard is boundless.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sad to hear of the deaths but not in any way surprised. Vallon d'Arbi is very commonly skied when shut. Indeed in order to get fresh tracks down it you really need to be willing to ski it when it's closed. I don't think people realise how dangerous it is or how much more dangerous it is than Verbier's other itinerary runs. I'm not sure what Televerbier can or should do about the situation.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
gorilla wrote:
Sad to hear of the deaths but not in any way surprised. Vallon d'Arbi is very commonly skied when shut. Indeed in order to get fresh tracks down it you really need to be willing to ski it when it's closed. I don't think people realise how dangerous it is or how much more dangerous it is than Verbier's other itinerary runs. I'm not sure what Televerbier can or should do about the situation.
Is that an itinerary? If so, could they confiscate the lift pass for anyone entering when it's closed?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Sadly its that old adage that its never going to happen to you, especially when you're young you think you're invincible. I feel so sad for their families.
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Sad to hear of the deaths but not in any way surprised. Vallon d'Arbi is very commonly skied when shut. Indeed in order to get fresh tracks down it you really need to be willing to ski it when it's closed. I don't think people realise how dangerous it is or how much more dangerous it is than Verbier's other itinerary runs. I'm not sure what Televerbier can or should do about the situation.
Very sad news. It's easy to criticize but you see plenty of guides taking people through the barriers to ski Col des Mines when it's shut.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
BobinCH wrote:
gorilla wrote:
Sad to hear of the deaths but not in any way surprised. Vallon d'Arbi is very commonly skied when shut. Indeed in order to get fresh tracks down it you really need to be willing to ski it when it's closed. I don't think people realise how dangerous it is or how much more dangerous it is than Verbier's other itinerary runs. I'm not sure what Televerbier can or should do about the situation.
Very sad news. It's easy to criticize but you see plenty of guides taking people through the barriers to ski Col des Mines when it's shut.
The issue with Vallon D'Arbi (and something many forget) is that the traverse track on entry is horrifically exposed to avalanche danger from the slopes of Mt Rogneux above. This is where the main danger comes from - and frequently it is kept shut when conditions appear to be benign in Vallon D'Arby itself. No doubt this leads to the situation of people "poaching" runs when it is shut. However ski patrol must always err on the side of caution.
Knowing Verbier several others will have been skiing this route on the same day ?
No doubt the young kids assumed that all the other well equipped skiers heading to Vallon D'Arbi / Mines knew what they were doing....
Tragically sad.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@abc, they'd never know. You pass through no gates and end up at a variety of different places on the lift system.
@Haggis_Trap, you are dead right, most of the danger is from above, which people seem bizarrely immune to.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Steve Sparks wrote:
Quite incredible that people should be so ignorant and lack any sense of perspective.
Let them go - helps with the gene pool.
Just a shame these types of people more often than not endanger innocent people as well. A quick drive on the Dubai roads would be an excellent example...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Sadly there are too many that think they know better, and put others at risk, whether they be other skiers/boarders or rescue staff.
@AsterixTG, I share the same opinion of the Arab roads, where people believe if they have a collision then it is meant to be.....which doesn't help the families of those they kill, by ignoring lights/junctions/warning signs and driving on the wrong side of the road
I am just back from 2 weeks skiing in Switzerland, where I was off slope or in the back country almost every day. Despite seeing skiers/boarders every day, we did not once detect any avalanche transceiver signals from anyone else whilst conducting our signal check. The only time we detected a signal was from a professionally guided group of snowshoe users, who were also wearing harnesses and had ropes.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Darwinism?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
He was found, and had blown up his airbag but was dead upon retrieval from snow.. a good reminder that airbag systems do not make you invincible in the mountains.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've skied Val DÁrbi twice (in one day). Is it generally dangerous? Or do Verbier only open it when it is safe? Should it only be skied with avi equipment?
I loved that itinerary, but reading all this has me a bit spooked.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Interesting to note from clarky999's link that all but one of the 56 fatalities this year have occurred when the avalanche forecast was 3 or less, with about a 2:1 ratio of tourers to "freeriders". Interesting as well that Ueli Mosiman from the SAC quotes (according to google translate) that there has been a quadrupling of backcountry skiers in the last 30 years but that the number of fatal avalanches has stayed the same (presumably his figures apply to Switzerland).
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@HeidiAmsterdam, you should always ski the likes of val d'arby and col the mines with avi equipment. Even when they are open, they are not controlled and avalanches can be released. Especially Val d'arbi is going through some serious environment and I have seen some huge debrises there after days when it has been open.
At the same time, I assume that when it is open they think that it is generally safe. But remember, Verbiers itineraries are off-piste and not on-piste, so care should be taken.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Shimmy Alcott, interesting vid.
I did notice the chap who skis up to the rider had an ABS pack on. Interestingly he has not pulled the velcro cover away from the trigger handle !
(he may have replaced it on arrival as we cannot see clearly when he is skiing and some editing has occured).
This may be brushed off as a slight lapse, but I see it all over youtube, and it does make it considerably harder to trigger the airbag, which one does not have much time to think about when it is needed.
After all, he has just descended on a face that has just slid bigstyle. Follow up slides are not unknown to catch out rescuers.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@HeidiAmsterdam, I would suggest you only ski it when it is open, with avi gear.
What avi gear and training do you have ? Remember there is no level 0 in the risk scale (that is reserved for 'grass' in the summer I guess) so even when it is opened by the resort, it will still have a risk attached.
is this the entry point you take (never been myself) ?
Did you see/read the big signs...they would imply that you need gear.
The conditions looked fairly safe in that video, but it is amusing that the headcam looked at the warning signs, and included them in the video, but had no effective equipment whatsoever. (His son may have had a tranceiver, but that is useless without a shovel. I am assuming that if, like most of the other skiers on that route on that video, if you get kit for one of your family, you would get it for all)
On another note - he never once looked about himself either starting out on a slope, or before stopping on the narrow paths.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 4-02-15 15:44; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@lampbus,
Don't have any avi gear, and no training. I know think I was not to clever to do that. Won't be doing it again until we have avi gear and training. I'm only wiser from this forum.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Was only eight days ago i was in murren boarding off piste with no avi gear!! As all trips was snowingheavy when I left, but would have taken advantage of fresh powder had I had an extra day or 2. Now glad I had to come home so soon.
The guy was avalanched despite the slope being inspected by multiple guides before and after the slope was bombed with high explosive in an attempt to make it safe.
Still, I guess the fact that the guides thought that throwing high explosives at the slope would help tells it's own story....