 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I am a beginner snowboarder and after a friend of mine broke his collarbone at Hemel a couple of years back a fairly paranoid one! An broken arm is probably an occupational risk, but the collarbone is quite a nasty one, so I'm keen to do whatever I can to reduce (I appreciate it can't ever be fully eliminated) that risk!
I have some upper body armour from Demon, I think its the flex force model from a few years ago, however I recently saw this season's Demon FlexForce X D30 Top Men's V2 body armour which looks to have some additional collar bone protection, which appeals a lot!
It also looks (I haven't seen it in person, just on-line) a bit more streamlined, presumably due to opting for D3O padding and may therefore be more comfortable to wear as a mid-layer (not that my current padding is particularly uncomfortable)!
Has anyone used/seen this piece of kit and does anyone have any thoughts (I've seen plenty mentioned about D3O and have some knee pads and shorts already which I'm perfectly happy with, so I trust the technology)/
Also, I do have wrist guards, but I would like to get some of the combined wrist guard/gloves (I'm not looking to start a conversation on the benefits of wrist guards here, I choose to wear them and am simply looking for advice based on that fact), conventional wisdom seems to suggest the Flexmeter gloves are the best out there, is that the case, should I simply get them, or are there any other alternatives I should look at?
Also, having only ever worn separate wrist guard/gloves, are the combined ones more comfortable/practical, or is it simply a convenience thing?
Many thanks in advance for any tips!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh one more thing I forgot to mention....I do ski as well, presumably there's no issue with wearing the upper body padding for skiing (I never have, but I can't see the harm if I change my discipline at lunch for example), but what about the gloves, would I still be able to hold ski poles comfortably (if not, not an issue, I can just keep my existing gloves for that, unless there are some that fit the bill for both)?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm not sure what you're intending to do, snowboard wise.
Most of that stuff would be for people who are doing air over man made obstacles. It may be better to learn generally how to ride first, than to invest in a lot of padding. If you're uncontrolled enough to smash your teeth on a rail then padding won't help much.
Your risk as a beginner of most types of physical injury is greater because you may not have learned what not to do whilst falling, even though you're likely going slower. Breaking your arm is quite hard to do, and if you think about it no amount of armour is going to stop that happening if you put your arm in the way of something it shouldn't be. So I would consider taking lessons as a way to prevent injury first: they'll tell you what not to do.
Wrist guards are supposed to be reasonable for beginners (evidence).
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My husband wears demon flexforce D30 which we bought from USA and imported at a much cheaper price than found online in UK. He also wears the armoured pants, with hip guards and of course, wrist protectors. And a helmet. He took a nasty fall onto his back in Italy and although badly winded, the body armour certainly did its trick.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Philwig, a fair point, well to clarify, I've had a few lessons, will get more at some point too, but will practice without an instructor the next time I go I think to gain some confidence riding solo!
I can get down a blue run, link my turns and descend under control, so the next big challenge is a red, hopefully over Easter (I am actually going to Zakopane next weekend, but that will be purely skiing, as the wife prefers that so we're having some lessons)!
I would like to try some freestyle in the future at Hemel, but I'm a long way from there (ability wise not geographically)! So am thinking a bit to the future with regards to padding, but also of course as a beginner I still do take the odd on-piste tumble and when icy that can still hurt!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've got some Level Fly gloves with inbuilt wrist guards, they seem very well put together and there's a good bit of science in the support placement, tether than the 'strap your hand and wrist to a big plastic lump' of some.
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Fruity, does he have the current version, I am very curious to know if it is as streamlined as it looks, or is it as bulky as the older versions?
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Rogg, do the Level gloves have double sided wrist guards or just single? Aesthetically I prefer them to the flexmeter ones, but was worried they don't offer the same level of protection.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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http://www.demonsnow.com/store/DS1630%20Flexforce%20X%20d3o
This one 2013/14 model. He says it's really comfy. Very streamlined and it doesn't ride up like some versions. It's like wearing an armoured jumper. Very soft and warm too. But fully protective. We imported and paid about £20 duty but it still beat the UK Price by over £70
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Yeah from the US is definitely cheaper, but that version doesn't have the collarbone padding in, which I'm quite interested in after my friends accident at Hemel (not freestyle, just towards the end of the night when the snow was quite packed). So some padding there appeals to me a lot!
But good to know its streamlined!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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He wears his on the motorbike in summer under a lighter jacket too.
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Yeah that's the one! Was tempted to wait until the end of the season on the off chance they drop the price too 
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You know it makes sense.
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PLUS 1 for the full demon d30 top I wear it when I do dh mountain biking and when I ride on slopes off piste and dome and in the park
Best to learn how to fall if and when u do , armour can only reduce risk
Collar bones breaking can also be down to own bone strength and type of fall
Have fun
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@vjmehra, The real issue is falling and how you perform when you do. You cant do much about tourque stresses transferred from your board or skis contacting the snow surface during a fall but as snowboarders we are usually subject to lower leverage forces as our equipment is not as long from the furcrum points as both legs are connected we have more support for each other.
Most damage occurs when a limb is stressed past its normal range of motion so the trick is to keep your limbs as close to your body as possible. Draw your legs up, close your fists and cross your arms over your chest. Tucking your chin down can also help tension your torso protecting ribs and shoulders.
Basically you are trying to become a ball that bounces (just a little) rather than a bundle of sticks to break at your first impact. Once you are stable and sliding you can begin to slow your slide.
Obviously hitting rocks or plumeting off a cliff is taking this past what you can prepare for, but basic falls should need nothing more that impact shorts with hip protection, a helmet and a back protector to keep you bouncing and sliding,
I'm an old (very) fart and still bounce most of the time when I fall. A good place to learn is at a gymnastics club or trampolining.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I totally accept that full on body armour isn't always necessary, but seeing as I'm not looking to race (i.e. I don't mind the slight extra weight), I don't see the harm in reducing the risk of injury slightly more by having some upper body protection, especially if it enables me to give the park a go once I get a bit better! Not that I don't appreciate good falling technique isn't equally important (even more important in fact)! But even with good falling technique, it only takes a fall onto some hard packed snow at an unfortunate angle to break something, hence if I can try and reduce this risk with padding I defitely want to
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| vjmehra wrote: |
| Rogg, do the Level gloves have double sided wrist guards or just single? Aesthetically I prefer them to the flexmeter ones, but was worried they don't offer the same level of protection. |
Have a read here:
http://www.levelgloves.com/biomex.php?recordID=english
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hate wrist guards with a passion , learn to fall or roll correctly , all wrist guards do is move the break higher up by forcing the energy up the arm / wrist
Technique or kit everytime
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I had a read through, wasn't sure if that was clever marketing, or actual science Either way looks impressive, but for those that have them, does the lack of double sided protection bug you, or do you agree with the graphics?
I'm not sure I've ever banged the outside of my wrist, but presumably the fact that many wrist guards are double sided must mean this is a common concern? Is it therefore sensible for a beginner to wear gloves with just one sided wrist protection?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Winterfunman from what I've read on these forums and the Internet in general that's more myth and truth! Whilst it could happen, there doesn't seem to be any proof that it does and plenty of anecdotal evidence at least that wrist guards do offer some sort of protection.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wrist guards are also restrictive ...... over the years seen so many breaks that were moved higher up the arm due to them , mate worked as mountain resue has same view
Each to their own , proper riding and technique will make it less likely of a break , yes u may fall badly or oddly , but more often than not, fall or roll correctly no need for wrist guards
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Presumably though, that is the logic of the Level Gloves?
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@winterfunman, agree that a part of it is learning to fall properly, but as for the "Travelling Break" thing being caused by wrist guards, i'm not buying it. Any fall with enough energy to break and arm would shatter the more fragile bones in the wrist. And if you're finding wrist-guards 'restrictive' then you've got the wrong ones for you.
I rarely 'armor up' except for a helmet. If I know i'm lofting myself off stuff or going on rails then I'll maybe put on some impy shorts. Too many people are treating Snowboarding as a full-contact sport these days, and I just don't know why... The "Oh i'm going to hurt myself" mentality makes people too edgy and nervous IMHO.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^+1. I'd also prefer to break my arm clean and further up than a wrist. Much less complicated and faster healing.
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I had the flexmeter gloves and found them to be completely without ventilation so by the end of a day's riding you could literally pour the sweat out of them. 2 days in they STANK too.
I'm a big fan of the wrist guards, but avoid their gloves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It would be very rare to break a collarbone through direct impact when snowboarding (not many hard objects to run into and you're travelling sideways, not forwards). It's not an unknown snowboarding injury, but the mechanism is usually from force transmitted into the collarbone from a fall onto an outstretched hand.
In short:
1. Don't stick your hands out when you fall.
2. Upper body / collarbone padding is of very limited use.
Broken collarbone isn't usually too big a deal, I'd much rather that than a broken arm. I see an average of about 3 broken collarbones a year as a mountain bike guide, I don't think anyone has so far done it by running into something. It's always a fall onto an outstretched arm, occasionally a heavy impact to the outside of the shoulder.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah not sure exactly how he did it, but seeing as the Demon body armour has collarbone protection I can't see any downside in using it!
With that in mind it looks like a straight shoutout between the flexmeter gloves vs the Level ones and the Demon padding, with my only real concern being the bulkiness, which it sounds like isn't a big issue!
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Tried several diff guards when I was learning etc.
I armour up as u say , as I have to sit in race cars a lot ( job ) so any injuries or bruising, impacts on my ££££ income
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I can't see any downside in using it!
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It's hot, sweaty, uncomfortable and restrictive. You will have a much less enjoyable day wearing it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've worn Demon armour before (not the new version) and never found that! To be honest whilst a little bulky I found it just like wearing another mid-layer!
Are you saying the new version is not like this?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Impact shorts, wrist protection, soft knee pads and helmet.
Once you get good enough to hit features then you want to add in a back protector.
I have the Level gloves with integrated wrist protection and I love them.
Really not a fan of D30... Forcefield do a great back protector but I hate their impact shorts. I like the Dainese Impact Shorts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Learning to fall correctly is the number one way to protect yourself snowboarding, that and just not falling over  . Don't stick out your hands, go with the fall and don't fight it, stay limp and not rigid.
Your body is built to take impact very well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm a total coward, and I don't wear body armour. Wouldn't touch it unless I fancied trying freestyle. Bought a pair of wrist guards once I'd been signed off for the big slope in the fridge and they were the most uncomfortable things ever so I took 'em back and swore to learn to fall properly instead.
The odd big fall is a bit painful sometimes but I've conditioned myself to find it hilarious in the same way you teach young kids to laugh when they stack it  TBH the biggest owies come from the muscle strain from using unfamiliar muscles when learning. Hell hath no fury like a weak core the day after a solid 6 hours of lessons.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wrist guards are pretty uncomfortable admittedly, hence the gloves interest me. Am hoping they are more comfy!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@vjmehra, they are, well the Level ones are compared with the Dakine guards I wore before.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just what I wanted to hear
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Well I'm glad my husband wears it. Especially at our age. He is 47 and says its personal choice.
The Demon armour he has ISNT at all hot and sweaty...and is fully washable.
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Good, that too is what I wanted to hear
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@vjmehra, all that body armour is rubbish and unnecessary. Did you want to hear that too?
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@Gainz, not all of us have an Adamantium аrse and porridge brains
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