 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
This is my first post so please excuse any breaches in protocol.
I am thinking of a ski holiday in the Monterosa region during the third week in March. We would fly into Milan from Toronto, Canada for a week. We are a family of very good skiers with two teenage boys. Our normal March break is in the Cdn. or US west and we have skied Whistler, Big White, Lake Louise and Taos previously. We like to go off piste; trees and steeps are what we look for.
With the above in mind, would we be better off staying in Gressoney or Alagna? How feasible are day trips to other areas such as Cervinia, Courmayeur and Zermatt? Is it possible to actually ski to some of these other areas?
What should I expect in terms of costs for guides and heliskiing?
Finally, I would appreciate suggestions on holiday companies.
Many thanks from Toronto.
Ron
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is a snowhead who knows the place really well who will now doubt be along in a mo, he is a real Monterosa expert but we've been and really loved it.
Of three 2 places you mentioned Gressoney would probably be the better base. However, have you thought about Champoluc? It's a bigger village with a bit more going on. When I say bigger, That's not to say its a big resort, but that Gressoney and Alagna are tiny. I know in Gressoney , Champoluc and Alagna you could book heli skiing with a guide so that, weather permitting, one option is a ski into Zermatt. Day trips to the other resorts you mention are feasible by road, but it's at least 1hr 30 mins by road from Champoluc to Cervinia, it would be longer from Gressoney and not worth it at all from Alagna, so you have to wonder if it's worth the hassle. Obviously you would need a hire car (go to Cervinia for Zermatt and don't miss the last lift back over to Cervinia though, as its a VERY long way back from Zermatt).
We looked into Heli skiing in the New year, and it was affordable, (can't remember how much but it's easy to google) but the weather was not favourable. For off piste more generally, you will need a guide,;thankfully, Italy is very good value in that regard!
As to holiday companies, Ski 2 , www.ski-2.com , a UK run company, based solely in Champoluc, get a huge thumbs up. We usually book everything ourselves but we used them at Christmas and for the NY and they were excellent. A very personal and friendly service and nothing is too much trouble. They pick you up from the airport too, so no need to faff about with hire cars and map reading! They have an office and staff in the village and can advise and help book heli skiing, guides and anything else your heart desires.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 18-01-15 10:58; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Morning Ron. I'm no expert but have been to Alagna a few times and am back there in early March for a guided week. If you have any experience of the typical European ski resort, the Montarosa bases are much quieter. Alagna remains a farming community with limited options for dining and certainly no partying for the lads.
The pistes, albeit long merely link the three villages and other than the Punta Indren itinerary, access to the serious off piste will need a guide. We've organised ours through Zuba ski. I believe they're an English run outfit but I have no former experience of them. We're paying €345 a day for the guide. I'll paste the heli information at the base of this reply.
I've some experience of skiing on your side of the pond (I've a good mate in London Ont). Lake Louise will appear a little flat after the Italian Alps, although you'll be lucky to find any trees until your nearly at the bottom. Day trips will be difficult unless you are prepared for several hours driving each way.
Have you skied over here before? It is a very different experience and if it's your first time there's more we would tell you to aid the trip. Either way, it's a fantastic area and if you hit the right conditions and find a guide you can communicate with, you'll have a hell of a trip!
Best wishes, Andrew
Heli Skiing:
Normally we suggest to clients that you make a reservation and pay for a private guide for your group and then if you can fly you pay the extra for the flight on the day then if due to weather or snow conditions you cannot fly, you can still enjoy a great days guided off piste skiing amongst the wide open terrain and couloirs accessible from the top lift station at Punta Indren 3,300m
There are many heli skiing opportunities and drop off points and different ski locations (over 20 drop zones in the region with over 60 descent routes possible. Usually the guides will leave it until the day of the ski to decide on which options would be best, based on both weather and snow conditions prevailing at the time. Slopes face in different directions so if there has been wind guides may decide to ski slopes that were sheltered to avoid wind pack and crust etc. Decisions will be taken by the guides based on safety in different locations too. Obviously both the guides and clients prefer to ski the best conditions. Heli-drops are normally from Altitudes of around 4,000m.
In the helicopter that is working the Heli -Ski in Gressoney and in Alagna there are places for 4 guests + 1 guide.
Each mountain guide when heli skiing from Alagna, Gressoney and Champoluc and in the Alta Valsesia region can take the maximum ratio of 4:1 clients (this is a new rule they have from this season and all the guides have to follow it strictly) So for heli skiing in Alagna territory the maximum a guide can take is 4 people.
The guides cannot make a guarantee that they can have other people to fill up the helicopter if there are more of less people than than the 4 maximum, also this is because maybe other clients would wish to fly to a different drop of point and not the same place as the other heli lift.
So please just remember that if you are 5 people there is the risk that you have to pay a second flight totally, if there is not the possibility to put the extra person with other groups.
Sometime during the day before they will know if there is the opportunity to mix other people together.
Prices for Heli uplifts per flight:
Depending on what you require and where you fly to as well as how fast you ski, it is possible to have 1, 2 or 3 heli uplifts per day.
These prices are based on the whole helicopter flight = 4 clients + 1 Mountain Guide.
Here are the prices for flights in the most frequented places from Bettaforca or Salati and from secondary pick up points:
Price for first heli uplift: (Note these prices are based on last winter's rates 2013/14 - as the helicopter company has not set their prices for next season yet, although they should not change that much)
- Salati/Bettaforca to Colle del Lys: 600,00 euros
- Salati/Bettaforca to Colle di Verra: 580,00/600,00 euros
- Salati/Bettaforca to Rif. Sella: 500,00 euros
If you take a second or third flight in the same day, the prices are:
- Piani di Verra to Colle del Lys: 690,00 euros
- Piani di Verra to Rif Sella: 530,00 euros
- Courtlys to Colle del Lys: 640,00 euros
- Courtlys to Rif. Sella: 530,00 euros
The cheapest one is the flight to Testa Grigia (430,00 euros) or Bettolina (450,00 euros) and the most expensive one is the Tete de Valpelline (870,00 from Bettaforca and 960,00 from Passo Salati)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Under a new name is your man. I'm heading out there in a couple of weeks for a guided off piste week which is what attracted me to the area. If you weren't already aware off piste is different in Europe compared to north America, where anything off piste is classed as such.
If you're happy with a quiet base, pistes and the opportunity for some awesome off piste it sounds like it could be just the place.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PS the trip I'm doing is with a couple of locally based English speaking guides. Can get their details to you of interested.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ronw87, Good lord, that's huge set of questions in one! [ramble_mode_on]
Firstly, it is an excellent idea. A very different ski experience to what you are used to.
Monterosa is more or less accessed from three valleys. Champoluc is most western and I wonder why you weren't considering it as it is by far the biggest (but that's not saying so much) and most developed village. It is still pretty tiny though. The two Gressoney's are hamlets. Alagna itself is not actually terribly well connected to the system and its own piste skiing is rather limited.
I will declare an interest as my wife's father was born there and the family have property (including a rental apartment and some 10,000 square somethings of non-development grazing land. Goats anyone?)
All the valleys are however very beautiful. But I think you'd get a better cultural experience in Champoluc rather than the other two.
Skiing in general in Western Europe is really different to North America. The tree line is typically lower, trees naturally grow in a denser fashion and they are not "gladed". So tree skiing is not something that is as frequently practised. Conversely, and especially from a heli ski point of view, the terrain is much more typical to "trees" in Canada, rather than alpine. Does that make sense? You generally find steeper gradients, etc. you just don't have tree well problems.
Also, and this is an expectation that you will have to manage for yourselves... people do the reverse trip to ski powder in Canada, UT, WY, CO, etc. No-one flies transatlantic from the U.S. to ski powder in Europe unless they're sponsored. Nor to heliski.
Yes, you do get powder here but it doesn't arrive with the predictability nor reliability of NA. However, we do have lots and lots of very good off piste, just in typically more variable conditions. (Monterosa is also very high and can get windy).
Helis: Canada benefits from a particular conjunction of factors that allowed for the heli ski industry to develop. In particular, a population of un(der) employed industrial helicopters and pilots in winter. If you actually had to pay the true costs of running a Bell-212 to go skiing, you wouldn't. As I understand things, the whole thing is rather heavily subsidised by oil and logging companies who pay hourly flying rates based on the helicopters having nothing to do for 5 months of the year. Likewise, that industry has, of its own necessity, developed a much more sophisticated snow security infrastructure (and guiding system) that doesn't exist over here.
@Val Desire, has much good info on heliskiing above. Googling guide offices in the village you decide on would be the thing to do other than recommendations.
You might consider guided ski touring as a heli alternative. Earn your turns. You could then take advantage of the local refuges. I think that's what I'd do if my party was up to it. Very very sadly my biggest recommendation of a place to stay burned down a few years ago.
Other things:
Skiing in Europe, in general, is much more sociable than in NA. Especially in Italy  Good food and drink (yes, alcohol is very much part of the equation - although clearly not at all around flying machines - and against a background of appreciation, not grotesque consumption). You will find fellow skiers, even tourers, with bottles of excellent local wines, rolls of hams, salami and cheeses in their backpacks enjoying spectacular picnics after their climbs.
So a good lunch on the slopes is very much a part of the ski day. There are many excellent places to eat and very few that are to be avoided. I can provide a list
Apres ski in Monterosa is not the loudest in Europe, but I am guessing that won't bother you? One thing to note is that many Italian bars will provide free party snacks with the evening's drinks - mini-sandwiches, pizzas, etc. Not as a substitute for dinner (and don't abuse the hospitality) but just to get you through to dinner.
In Champoluc there are two outstandingly good restaurants, Le Sapin, which is very much steak based and l'Essential d'Andreone which is a little more modern and cosmopolitan and often has a bit of a fish theme as the owner also owns a sport fishing lake. He was the chef at, and cultured a sturgeon for, our wedding - delicious.
Holiday companies? www.ski2.co.uk would be my recommendation if you want that level of organisation. They might be able to help with guides, etc. They'll certainly try to help if they can. I don't think any of the major tour operators operate much in the area although there is some presence. The big companies will be little help, if at all, for your off piste requirements.
Personally, I'd just do it all myself.
Three rather special suggestions for accommodation literally up the mountain above Champoluc would be:
http://www.frantze.it/en/rascard.html - absolutely lovely, tiny, recent renovation of a traditional mountain rascard. The owners are charming and food delicious. I have no idea if you can access the village in the evening!
http://www.hotelleriedemascognaz.com/ - stunning. And they will get you in and out of the village at night. But it's very definitely a 5 star experience!!
http://www.aroula.it/aroula-welcome.asp - I think (?) 4 bedrooms. I think (?) heated at night. I expect (?) running water, maybe even hot. Great lunch spot. We might overnight to see what it's like later in the season.
And if you have a car (recommended) - Courmayeur f'rinstance is about an hour's drive away. Cervinia for Zermatt similar only because you're all the way down one valley and all the way up the next one along. Exploration easy to do.
Are you sure you can't do two weeks
[/Ramble]
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Many thanks for all the useful info. Lots to digest and talk about with the family. FYI, my wife and I have skied a fair bit in the Alps already (lived in Brussels before we had kids and skied Meribel and Engelberg). Am I right in thinking that if one wants to ski off-piste, it is less important whether one stays in Gressoney, Champuloc or Alagna? My previous impression was that Champuloc was easier skiing, Gressoney intermediate and Alagna more challenging.
Ron
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK. We pulled the trigger on a week in Gressoney staying at the Lysjoch. Any tricks/discounts available for lift tickets and/or guides? We are flying into Milan Linate. I am leaning towards hiring a car and driver to take us straight from the airport to Gressoney, but I am not averse to hiring a car and driving myself. Any thoughts on the better alternative?
Many thanks,
Ron
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hi Ron, I'm in Alagna at the moment, enjoying fantastic conditions.
In Europe, we pay the window price for lift tickets, it's a much more transparent (and IMO more satisfactory) system than in north America. Some tour operators may provide a small discount, but in a world where I've paid €216 for 6 days, it's way cheaper than your side of the pond. Same goes for the guides. Ours was organised through Zubaski, we paid slightly more than it would have cost through the guides office, but we had some requirements we couldn't be sure about if we booked in Italian.
Giancarlo is 32, has passable English and is providing just what we want, he's a pleasant, fun and knowledgable chap.
The transfer cost us €150 each way, a hire car would have been cheaper.
Can you please do a snowdance in Canada, it's not looking good for my next trip 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Many thanks, Val. Not sure it helps, but it's snowing outside my window in downtown Toronto right now!
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@ronw87, hiring a car might be cheaper, but it's likely to spend the week parked up outside your hotel.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@under a new name, hi, we were in "contact" on other thread. still waiting for my children school hols timetable for the next year so that I can contact you regarding the appartment in Champoluc.
I am an advance skier and both my children are good skiers that can handle any red run. My wife however is a non-skier (I still curse arogant AT instructor in Ischgl eventhough 7 years have passed  ). She does some hikes and trecks though, usualy guided, but OK on her own as well. With this in mind - would it be better staying up the mountain, somewhere like hotellerie de mascognaz or in Champoluc? As I have not been in place, quite difficult to assess the area - hotellerie de Mascognaz does look impresive, but can you reach Champoluc on your own by foot or would I(or my wife) relying on Hotel's transport?
Also, can a non-skier take ski lifts up the mountain if based in Champoluc?
Many thanks and appologies for hijacking the thread
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Poster: A snowHead
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From the base in Champoluc there are two gondolas that get you to Ostafa - 2420m, where there are two nice restaurants. My wife who is a non-skier met us at the nearer one most days.
There is also a nice restaurant (as I said above) you can snow shoe to, stadel soussun (from top of the first gondola - Crest,) or you can ski to via a blue (then a track down and a ski cat back out, and I've seen the ski cat parked at Crest sometimes.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mooney058, no worries. The thread is "generically" titled "Monterosa".
Mascognaz is not, afaik, accessible in winter on your own. I mean, it sort of clearly is, but I'm guessing at about an hour's walk. I'm pretty sure you'd be relying on the Hotel's scooter/tracked landie.
Yes, non-skiers are clearly very welcome up the Crest and Frachey base lifts (and from @bruisedskier's post up the 2nd bubble from Crest). From Crest I'd suggest she could maybe get snow shoes and access either l'Aroula or the Frantze both of which would reward the effort. Frantze definitely doable, l'Aroula I think so...
Bear in mind re walking that Champoluc is already at around 1,600m ...
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 4-03-15 18:47; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is, of course, Macugnaga.
It is tiny, charming and, well, tiny.
Accessed along a tiny narrow road. Has 5 lifts, all slow, on two mountain areas that when we were there, only opened on alternate days.
They do have excellent piste preparation and were very proud of their latest new machines, which they used with skill and...pride. We did a couple of days there during the week and shared the whole place with about four other skiers. I think they get most of their business from townies coming up on the weekend.
One area has a piste that strays onto live glacier, and we stopped and took a wander along a marked path that leads up under the East wall of the Monte Rosa its-self. (but we didn't go far in ski boots).
There is the remains of another cable car that used to soar up to a third area, cables etc gone but the crumbling base station stands with faded piste map painted on the side. Did I mention it is charming and tiny ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| lampbus wrote: |
There is, of course, Macugnaga.
It is tiny, charming and, well, tiny.
Accessed along a tiny narrow road. Has 5 lifts, all slow, on two mountain areas that when we were there, only opened on alternate days.
They do have excellent piste preparation and were very proud of their latest new machines, which they used with skill and...pride. We did a couple of days there during the week and shared the whole place with about four other skiers. I think they get most of their business from townies coming up on the weekend.
One area has a piste that strays onto live glacier, and we stopped and took a wander along a marked path that leads up under the East wall of the Monte Rosa its-self. (but we didn't go far in ski boots).
There is the remains of another cable car that used to soar up to a third area, cables etc gone but the crumbling base station stands with faded piste map painted on the side. Did I mention it is charming and tiny ? |
I look at the piste man and could not find it ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We drove up to Macugnaga one summer, about nine or ten years ago, and caught a cablecar up to the top - has it gone now?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Looking for some more info for our upcoming trip:
1. Guides in Gressoney: I've emailed the Guide service using the official website. No response. Can/should I arrange this in advance? Or is this something I take care of on arrival?
2. Avalanche equipment: Don't have any ourselves so we need to hire/rent. Should this be sorted out in advance? Would the guide help us with this or does it need to be hired separately?
3. Rifugios: We are staying at the Lysjoch but I am interested in staying in a Rifugio for one night. I have email the Lysjoch about this but no reply. How would I arrange this?
Many thanks.
Ron
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One more thing: Any recommendation as to which car service to use to get from Milan Linate Airport to Gressoney (and back)?
Ron
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It's very easy to drive yourself from the airport & will definitely be cheaper. Also one of the times we've visited Gressoney they closed the main lifts due to high winds but we were able to drive down the valley to St Jean & have a great day skiing off-piste in the trees
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ronw87,
1. Phone them. Surprised they haven't responded. But they're Italian.
2. Phone the ski hire shops in Gressoney. I'd be pleasantly surprised if the guides had kit available. NB They may insist on avvy airbags.
3. Google "rifugio monterosa" and phone them. Must confess that with the demise of the Guglielmina there aren't so many that I'd bother staying at. That said, either the Grande Halte or the Baita have very fine restaurants and the Grande Halte for sure is quite comfortable.
I appreciate that phoning won't be as practicable as email, but seriously, it's deepest darkest Italy. Emails are not checked with the monotonous regularity as in some places.
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@lampbus, Macugnaga for what? How the devil did you end up there?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hah! @lampbus, how cool. Nice!
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FAQ
