 Poster: A snowHead
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A Fake Ski Instructor was teaching without a diploma
8 December 2014 a British national was tried by Albertville criminal court for working as an illegal ski instructor. Arrested on the ski pistes of Val d'Isere in April 2014 while leading a group of skiers the accussed, a volunteer in an English corporate structure, did not have a license as required by the sport code to teach skiing.
At the court the defendant claimed to be "a simple volunteer leader with an association that gives him board and lodging".
The ESF was a civil party to proceedings as they believe they are subject to unfair competition.
On Monday afternoon the court, presided by Emmanuelle Bouyé, sentenced the fake instructor to a 10 000 € fine with 5 000 € suspended. He also has to pay the ESF 1 (one) euro in symbolic damages |
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2015/01/13/le-faux-moniteur-enseignait-sans-diplome
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 19-01-15 20:57; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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cue TTT...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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not all this again 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Haha ESF only getting 1 Euro damages.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| cue TTT... |
& CG 
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There are currently six Frenchman in the north London resort of Arsenal working as fake footballers. Can we have them arrested?
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Sorry, it is the forum!
The Dauphine is generally quite negative wrt to non-French "instructors".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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just the Judge sucking up to ESF and giving them legal precedent that ESF are affected by volunteer leaders.
probably gives them (a) another route to legally challenge the damages awarded, and (b) a precedent to seek further damages from others.
/conspiracy
(IANAL)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We all need to demand the French impose these rates on the ESF and charge 1 euro per season for lessons
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at least that way we'd be getting value for money.... 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 13-01-15 21:12; edited 1 time in total
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As expected. And now the appeal .....
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You know it makes sense.
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So, €10,000 fine (with €5000 suspended) plus costs - and a criminal record (or do the French impose fines in civil cases?) Not entirely trivial.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@achilles, I certainly wouldn't be volunteering as an ambassador if that was the potential consequence. A court case is bad enough, the stress and disruption caused, as well as impact on personal and potentially professional life, all for a few weeks of jolly? Think I'd rather pay for it out of my own money. Perhaps that is what is coming next for the club in France - those that can afford to subsidise themselves (and presumably defend themselves in court) go and do it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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No comments on the Ski Club website.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| achilles wrote: |
| So, €10,000 fine (with €5000 suspended) plus costs - and a criminal record (or do the French impose fines in civil cases?) Not entirely trivial. |
He will have a French criminal record but unless he is applying for French nationality or certain jobs in France (erm ski instructor maybe  he wouldn't have any issues.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for posting this news @davidof,
Not very good from the other Tour Op companies point of view for their appeal regarding Ski Hosts. However not really a surprise that the Judge did not buy the idea of SCGB being a club anymore. 'English corporate structure'. I guess the SCGB will now appeal to the higher court and on this will go! Could be a long costly battle and a lot of members money will be spent on this case. I wonder if the SCGB will ask it's members whether they want to continue fighting this case and spend the club's money on something they may well not win. Just a thought?
Personally I think the SCGB should demonstrate clearly that the Holiday Company (Fresh Tracks) is not part of the club and then they could not be accused of being a business. Until they do that I wonder if the appeal courts will agree that it really is a 'Club' and the law (French Code) they are using does not apply.
I know some members I have skied with already this winter will be very disappointed as they enjoy touring round the pistes with the Leaders. Just like the Ski Host's. Stopping the Leaders doing this IMO will not bring any business to the Ski School's so another case of the French not thinking this through. Maybe if the SCGB dropped the 'Off Piste' leading and giving out only transceivers right in front of the ski schools this would also help their appeal.
As for the ESF, I am very pleased to read that they only got a token payment.
Once again, only time will tell where this will end.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am not a lawyer, but I wonder whether the French court's view of the SCGB was coloured in any way by the fact that they (in common with many other UK sports clubs) have in recent years adopted Limited status?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It would be helpful to read the full judgement, there is usually a lot more in it than gets reported in the "press"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I guess SCGB will cough up and pay the fine on behalf of their volunteer guide. It does make me wonder though, I travelled with a TO last year who have a Ski Club named after the town of their HQ. Any guests can join the ski club for free while in resort and they will provide a host guided days.
This company don't have the best record of paying staff at times (according to what I've read). I can imagine that some poor gap year student who is a keen skier and guides for them could quite easily get stuck with a hefty fine, with their employer not paying it for them. Unless of course they're scratching ESF's back by supplying guests for lessons in order for a complaint not to be made to the local constabulary.
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| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| So, €10,000 fine (with €5000 suspended) plus costs - and a criminal record (or do the French impose fines in civil cases?) Not entirely trivial. |
He will have a French criminal record but unless he is applying for French nationality or certain jobs in France (erm ski instructor maybe he wouldn't have any issues. |
Might affect him travelling to the States?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| achilles wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| He will have a French criminal record but unless he is applying for French nationality or certain jobs in France (erm ski instructor maybe he wouldn't have any issues. |
Might affect him travelling to the States? |
Possibly - the US Visa Waiver Program requires applicants to identify whether they have ever been arrested or convicted (so even if someone is found not guilty or even not prosecuted they can still have problems just by having been arrested...)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We seemed to bump into an SKGB group at every possible stop I'm val Thorens In dec It might have been freshtracks or not but they had an instructor with each group showing them around. The 'leader' no wait 'ambassador' turned up from time to time and looked as much use a chocolate fire guard.
Whilst I appreciate that quite a few of the (geriatric) SKGB group appeared to enjoy the sociability factor, I can't see why the resort would still provide accommodation for the leaders if this ruling sticks..
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@Dave of the Marmottes, "cue TTT..."
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You know it makes sense.
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It's a very disappointing outcome. I wonder, though, whether they have really thought this through, and whether it will have the effect they want? I have always assumed that this is just an attempt to ensure that any possible money to be made from guiding goes to ESF, and not to some foreigners. But as a member of the SCGB who has used and enjoyed the ski leader service on numerous occasions, I have to say that the absolute last thing I will now be doing is giving any money to ESF instead, even if I were planning to do so beforehand. In fact, I will be trying to ensure that ESF never receives a single cent of my money ever again. I have a SCGB trip booked to Flaine on the 24th, but after that, I don't see myself going back to France at all for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't be surprised if many other SCGB members felt the same way.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| J2R wrote: |
| I don't see myself going back to France at all for the foreseeable future. |
I hear St. Anton's nice - maybe try there instead?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| miranda wrote: |
| J2R wrote: |
| I don't see myself going back to France at all for the foreseeable future. |
I hear St. Anton's nice - maybe try there instead? |
But they don't allow SCGB reps there......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Given the small percentage of British skiers who are members of the SCGB should we really be concerned about the loss of this service? Yes, it is related to the loss of the TO hosting service but how long before all the alpine nations enforce the rules and 'free' guiding within resort disappears?
It's good to see that only notional damages were given to the ESF, but if they were to get damages shouldn't all the independent schools also get damages for loss of business?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Considering the claim for damages it seems strange that ESF aren't advertising a social skiing service; on or off piste!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@tarrantd, as I understand it, only the ESF chose to be a civil party to the case.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In resort at the moment, TO rep not allowed to guide or offer social skiing etc. etc.... So Funny though how when rep went skiing this morning 9 people followed .. How the chuff are the French going to stop reps being " followed" then ?? This could decend into something akin to the ministry of silly walks.... Lol ..
Arresting officer... You are leading a group of skiers
Rep. ... What skiers ?
Arresting officer.. Those behind you.
Rep.. The piste has nearly 100 people on it !!! Which ones am I leading ??
Arresting officer.. EEerrr .. All of them
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Twattery
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| yorkshirelad wrote: |
In resort at the moment, TO rep not allowed to guide or offer social skiing etc. etc.... So Funny though how when rep went skiing this morning 9 people followed .. How the chuff are the French going to stop reps being " followed" then ?? This could decend into something akin to the ministry of silly walks.... Lol ..
Arresting officer... You are leading a group of skiers
Rep. ... What skiers ?
Arresting officer.. Those behind you.
Rep.. The piste has nearly 100 people on it !!! Which ones am I leading ??
Arresting officer.. EEerrr .. All of them |
(I posted this on another thread) ...Theoretically, if I could advertise on here , free ski guiding at , say, La Plagne. And if happened to just be there for most of the season at my own expense, I could happily and legally take groups of people around. Maybe they might buy me a beer afterward, who knows .. nothing to do with the guiding.
It would be interesting to wear an official looking jacket and make a point of guiding my group past some ESF instructors ... I wonder what would happen ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just as a matter of fact; the Ski Club of Great Britain was not found guilty as it was never charged.
The charge was against an individual Leader, who had been leading in the resort for several weeks p.a. for several years as far as I can recall.
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^ fixed that for you
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FAQ
