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what vehicle for mountains and skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mrs LM and I are busy trying to work what car to buy the we can take to the mountains.

Do we need 4x4?

I would like to get skis inside so I was thinking something that has a middle seat section that can drop down so we still have 2 seats in the back, one for the child and one spare if we needed it or something with large enough boot to fit skis diagonally.

Probably looking at crossover of sone sort.

Any suggestions?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Do we need 4x4?

No. Any car will do with winter tyres. And preferably front wheel drive. A lockable extending ski carrier on the roof works well, too.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Saying that, my Subaru Forester on winter tyres gets up anything I have tried. But the all wheel drive gets more testing conditions on shoots and climbing venue tracks in Wales than in the Alpine mountains.
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Audi RS6, you'll get to the alps quickly Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
winter tyres on a front wheel drive are far more effective than 4x4. however they use more fuel and are louder for the motorways down, when you do most of the driving. If your going to be do lots of driving between lift areas/resorts and it's mid winter then go for winter tyres. If you just wna to get there and back go for normal tyres and get a set of chains from the hypermarkets in the alps. Chances are you won't need them but require them by law. Remember a typical drive ro a ski resort from the uk will be 90% motorways and 10% mountain roads at teh end to get to resort, if that - and most roads to resorts are big, wide, and well cleared.
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The locals use small front wheel drive cars. The fiat panda looks particularly suitable. Put the skis on the roof.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@cameronphillips2000, From home to Les Arcs is 810 miles, of which only the last 30 are not dual carridge way and only the last 8 are mountain roads
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
So I should just keep the Clio and hope for the best Wink

We are lucky that Mrs LM has just had a job upgrade so now has a car allowance to spend hence the new car. Good to know we probably don't need 4x4
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Have a look at this thread - http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=115251#2649885 - where I posted a couple of videos that show how otherwise identical cars perform with summer and winter tyres. The difference is one was a FWD and the other AWD. My wife has a Kuga (AWD) and I've just paid c.£600 for winter wheels and tyres for her car. I don't see this as wasted money as her car needs two new tyres and at c.£250 a tyre for the 19" on at the moment, I've paid only £100 more for 4 winter wheels and tyres that will provide an element of added security.
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Of course, there are plenty of "normal car" 4WD options now so you don't have to choose between good normal road handling and mountain/field/campsite capability (assuming you have winter tyres). My 4WD Octavia with winter tyres handled pretty much everything apart from really deep snow, and didn't suffer on the motorways etc. Having had 4WD on (several) otherwise ordinary cars, I wouldn't go back to 2WD now, the traction and control is so much better, in the wet as well as snow. But I wouldn't want an SUV-style car, too much compromise on normal driving, cost, image... wink
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Not the most economical, but seems right for the job
http://youtube.com/v/5aeKdmw9W50
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
To give suggestions a rough budget would be useful. It is worth remembering that if you are going down the PCP route then a car with a more expensive purchase price can have a similar or lower monthly payment than a car with a cheaper list price. It is also worth trying brokers such as drivethedeal.com or orangewheels.co.uk as you can get some astounding discounts. In June 2013 I bought an Audi A6 Allroad (3.0 V6 with 245 bhp and 4x4) through Drive the Deal and saved over £10k on the list price. The finance was direct with the Audi dealer and I still benefited from the cheap PCP deal on offer.

I live in a rural location and the roads can be flooded or covered in mud from fields so I value the benefits of having a 4x4.

Neither my Audi or my wifes Kuga have a "ski hatch" type section so we have to fold on part of the rear seats down. In the Audi, the boot and rear passenger compartment is big enough to allow me to fit my ski bag (c.185cm long) by folding the single rear seat down. However. In the Kuga the skis are too long for the single section and I need to fold the double section down with the skis then fitting through the gap in the front seats. This means the car becomes a 3 seater. However, if I was going any distance I stick the room bars on and put the skis up there. Fortunately, the roof bars fit both the Audi and Kuga.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Dacia Duster FTW!

At least that's what I bought over the summer, and it's been awesome since. More economical and faster/more powerful (and better in snow) than the (my ex's) Opel Astra that I was driving before, fits skis - even a kayak - inside with no issue, relatively cheap even buying new, and the 4x4 is really nice when the snow is thick on the ground (with winter tyres).

Can't fault it in any way, other than the badge if you car about that stuff.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
+1 on the Forester. Needs a roof box to fit my skis in but is very capable. Heated front windscreen is ace for clearing. I had a Patrol which would get me into some more remote places but that wasn't a common thing so was probably a bit of a waste and very agricultural.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
What about an Octavia estate 4x4. They have a ski hatch in the back seat don't they?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Growing up, ski hatches seemed all the rage but (along with arm rests?) seem less common now -- we didn't use them for skis back then but they were a great way to stash things in the boot and have them reachable from the back seat.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Little Martin wrote:
So I should just keep the Clio and hope for the best Wink

We are lucky that Mrs LM has just had a job upgrade so now has a car allowance to spend hence the new car. Good to know we probably don't need 4x4


How about looking for a car that has really good fuel eco?

Might mean you can get an extra trip in each year snowHead
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Little Martin, I'd go for car with winter tyres as a must to start. Front/4X4 drive preferably, but winter tyres standard + chains in the boot no matter what. A roof box will help you out if you don't want to change your car.
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This video was posted on the "Snow tyres? Me? Surely not" thread and gives a fantastic idea of the capabilities of 2 vs 4 WD with and without winter tyres (driving up Tamworth Snow dome's ski slope!)

Should be a sticky thread and made a condition of SH membership to be watched!
<edit>Just spotted Gaza's link to this earlier </edit>


http://youtube.com/v/mfuE00qdhLA
.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rogg wrote:
What about an Octavia estate 4x4. They have a ski hatch in the back seat don't they?


Don't think having skis inside the car does much for it's crash rating.
We have a Subaru and it's great in the snow/ice. It is getting due for replacement and will probably get another Subaru (Outback perhaps) or maybe an Audi Allroad if I'm feeling too rich!
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..


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 13-02-15 20:57; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Once you have had a 4x4 saloon/estate, it`s unlikely you will go back to conventional drives, if you enjoy your driving. It makes for a safer, more controllable journey, and coupled with winter tyres, means you know that you will arrive at your destination unstressed. Expense and fuel economy are the only downsides. There is a good reason why so many manufacturers have copied Audi and Subaru`s rally heritage, and it has saved me from a serious crash on at least one occasion. When the weather gets REALLY bad, the drive just gets better. I`ve had a derv Subaru Legacy mk4, and now have an Impreza wrx wagon and a Skoda Superb tdi wagon. The latter has a ski hatch, unmatched rear leg room, and is good for 50 mpg, 4 up and loaded, with a sensible right foot. Last year we went to Montgenevre in the Suberb, with 2 teenagers, 2 skis, 2 boots, and all the clobber, without a roof box, so we could use the flexi free Eurotunnel lounge and all its benefits ; roof boxes are too high for entry.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks for all the suggestions. We are going to be trawling the car forecourts this weekend to see what we can find. Not sure I will be allowed to take skis with me to check if they fit Wink
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People here use a lot of Dacia Dusters, Skoda Yetis, Citroen Berlingos.
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I had a Subaru Legacy once - it was fine except for a serious and unsolveable fuel problem. Every now and then the engine would be starved of fuel. Outside lane of a busy M6 was the worst - OH was driving son up to Uni in Manchester, the car absolutely stuffed with his paraphernalia. Twiddled himself into the hard shoulder, called the AA who Relayed him to a main Subaru dealer in Manchester who did very expensive things with the carburetter. OH had to come back on the train and return on the train when the car was ready. Did exactly the same on the way back. AA Relayed him again, on the basis that it wasn't his fault. Various main dealers and various clever people never could get at whatever the fundamental cause was. Car sold at auction in Chichester and superbly reliable 18 month old Toyota bought and driven for around 180K.

I know Subarus are good - ours was a rogue, built in Japan, bought new in Fiji. When buying a car most recently I looked at the Forester but it was very expensive and not roomy enough. The Oktavia sounds good if you really want skis inside. But surely most cars with folding back seat will enable you to carry child and skis in the back?

4WD is obviously great if you go shooting or camping in muddy fields etc but it really isn't essential for driving to the mountains now and then. Sure, if you like driving and it will give you pleasure, go for 4WD but don't kid yourself you need it for the mountains. Personally I'd prefer to spend less on a car and more on skiing. I bought myself a pair of heated socks yesterday, Au Vieux Campeur in Albertville. Those weren't essential either, and neither was the jacket I bought last year because I was bored with my old one.... wink
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
johnE wrote:
The locals use small front wheel drive cars. The fiat panda looks particularly suitable. Put the skis on the roof.


I suppose that puts an end to the dream of Husky and sledge Sad
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My '08 Passat has a ski hatch in the back seats - not sure if new ones do. Plenty of space/legroom for occupants as well so good for long journeys. Full size spare so fewer issues with chains if you have a flat. Economical too.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
We have a 2WD Tiguan with the ski hatch. It also doubles up as a wind break hatch in summer months for windy Cornish beaches. Nice drive, smooth ride. Very impressed with it after three VW Golfs.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Little Martin wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions. We are going to be trawling the car forecourts this weekend to see what we can find. Not sure I will be allowed to take skis with me to check if they fit Wink


When we bought the Tiguan, the surfboard came with us as it was essential to make sure it fitted in the car for short day trips...don't knock it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'd not want skis inside my car when travelling long distances with kids, if the worst happened and you had an accident the skis could cause extra damage. Get a roof box and shove them in there...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
We pack them tightly in @kitenski, with the towels etc all wrapped around. Trust me, nothing moves in our car once we head to the slopes....and obviously, they're in the ski bag. We have travelled with the roof box on too but if it's just us and our son, we don't need the extra space. It's all in the packing...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We also tend to drop a seat, as we have three sets and a snow board to pack in....
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You could always try a Kia sportage, 7 year warranty makes them very popular

Great grip on winter boots too, well unless your coming down from Val Thorens and meet a bus from Durham coming the other way
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Lizzard wrote:
People here use a lot of Dacia Dusters, Skoda Yetis, Citroen Berlingos.


And in nearly every French ski resort I've been to I've seen a battered old Fiat Panda 4x4 parked up Laughing Little Martin get one of these and just pocket the rest of the car allowance.

Probably a bit extreme for skis, but we went from a Saab 9-3 sportswagon to a Vauxhall Vivaro van (with crew cab) so that we didn't have to have bikes on the back of a car any more. Fantastic to drive and very versatile. The back of our has been used as a spare shed for the last few weeks!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Fruity, fair enough!! I have a roof box which also means if I drive to a different area we chuck wet/snowy skis straight in there, amazed how much water is in there by the end of the week!
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Oh yeah tell me about it... Hubby is a bit anal about drying them off though ( especially his precious board. Funny that)....
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've got a roof box too though Wink extra long for the skis!!! And I must say, the proper bars made by VW with no sticky out end bits were a godsend, no internal car noises from wind and better fuel economy...and stickers. Loads of stickers. I can't wait to put the new SnowHeads ones on...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Budget for putting Winter Tyres on whatever car you're getting. In theory, of course, it doesn't cost any more because the summers lie unused in the garage. But assume a charge of around £30-£50 twice a year to swap them 'round. For our BMW, we pay £30 twice a year for swapping and for them to store the unused set of wheels and tyres. Then budget for a set of chains for the winter wheels. Yes, you'll probably never resort to using them, but as people found this New Year, the police may make them mandatory up to the resort.

When you're looking at cars, check whether the fitted wheels can take chains or not. Be prepared for dealers to look puzzled at this, but quite a lot of UK spec' cars come out of the factory with wheels that can't take chains. So that means that you need (narrower) winter wheels as well as tyres - obviously this is an extra cost. e.g. on our Peugeot 206 we just swap the tyres, as the 14" wheels can take chains. But on our Audi A3 we needed new winter wheels, as the 18" ones fitted can't take chains - we had to get a set of 17" wheels, which can. This might affect your buying decision, all other things being equal.

I'm a fan of estate 4WD for our main car on the basis of the 'neutral' handling it gives (neither oversteer or understeer) all year 'round. However, a lot of people have a 'thing' for RWD handling and don't like anything else - you'll find a lot of posts from RWD owners who use winter tyres and say that this works perfectly well, with chains for the worst conditions. FWD is probably superior to RWD in snow but I really disliked the understeer in our A3 and for most normal driving, I would prefer either AWD or RWD. But this is a personal opinion.

A roofbox and bars will cost you extra money, of course, but I've found roofboxes excellent in terms of just being able to throw dirty wet skis in them. Somehow, with our family skiing, the clothing somehow always expanded between the outbound and return trips - seems to be a law of physics - and the roofbox was great at accomodating this extra luggage. Obvious advice, but worth spating: If you opt to cary skis internally, get a liner and restraining straps for wet boots and skis.

Also: On another post, more than one Discovery owners mentions the 'slide of death' even when equiped with winter tyres and chains, dur to the sheer weight of the vehicle. I hadn't thought of this, but I can see the problem. So a heavy 4x4 isn't necessarily better than lighter weight saloon/estate in snow, all other things (like winter tyres) being equal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
msej449 wrote:
...Also: On another post, more than one Discovery owners mentions the 'slide of death' even when equiped with winter tyres and chains, dur to the sheer weight of the vehicle. I hadn't thought of this, but I can see the problem. So a heavy 4x4 isn't necessarily better than lighter weight saloon/estate in snow, all other things (like winter tyres) being equal.


Very good point. 4x4 will give you more grip to drive but when you come to slow or turn it makes very little difference. You've still only got 2 steering wheels and the same 2 wheels doing most of the braking.
If the 4x4 is either an SUV or full on 4x4 it'll be heavier (Range Rover can be almost 3 tonnes) and taller (so more body roll) both of which will make matters worse both baking and turning, not better. I wouldn't want to come down a snow covered montain road in one.
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@msej449, fwd is not superior in winter, its just easier to handle. However, if you have skills, rwd is easier, safer and overall better - assuming you took specialised extreme driving courses Blush . However, for a regular driver, fwd is 'easier', but rwd is easier if your car is properly equiped and you have skills.
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