 Poster: A snowHead
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Translated from the SwissInfo article
“Mountain Wilderness” demonstrates against heli-skiing
BLATTEN – The Association for the Protection of Mountain Zones “Mountain Wilderness” has protested against heli-skiing, the demonstration taking place at the Petersgrat heliport located at 3,120m in the Lötschental region.
A banner with the word “SILENCE” was put on display. Mountaineers taking part in the demonstration gathered at the Swiss Alpine Club’s cabin on the Kanderfirn, according to Rolf Meier, the man who is leading the «Stop Heli-skiing» campaign for the mountain protection organisation.
Close to 1,200 people go heli-skiing each year on the Petersgrat, close to the UNESCO world heritage site, the Mountain Wilderness press release indicated. Nearly half of the 42 recognised mountain landing areas, used mainly for the sport of heli-skiing, are found either within protected zones or areas that should be reclassified as such.
According to Mountain Wilderness, helicopter landing areas pose a direct threat to wildlife and the natural balance of the mountain environment. The organization has petitioned the Federal Civil Aviation bureau (OFAC) asking it to recognize the harmful effects of this sport and to ban it completely.
Whistler heli-skiing unrest
Heli-skiing hazards
Environmental disruption
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for raising the issue, PG. A certain sector in our sport believes in 'having it all'. Heli-skiing is purely and simply a substitute for 'skin graft' - the time-honoured way of climbing mountains on touring skis, in peace and quiet, causing minimal damage and terror of hibernating wildlife. I've never done it, and will never do it. The vast majority of skiers will never do it, because thankfully it's so horrendously expensive anyway.
The French ban on heli-skiing began decades ago, but sadly there is no European-wide law against it.
As for Canada, where most heli-skiing goes on, no one seems to give a damn because the noise and pollution are generated in wilderness areas. But our shrinking, warming, damaged planet can't support this indulgence any longer.
Let's just get the whole thing stopped globally...or is our sport simply hell-bent on maximum burning of fossil fuels?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The vast majority of skiers will never do it, because thankfully it's so horrendously expensive anyway.
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Exactly. But in the article above 1200 on the Petersgrat at 4 pax per flight is only 300 landings on the tops, or say 3 per day averaged over the season and spread over 42 LZs. Doesn't sound like a big problem to me. Storms in teacups ? The huge expense keeps the thing self-limiting and almost by definition no-one would do it if it ever became too popular in any one place. Since I don't suppose it's possible to ban all chopper flights (emergency services must be allowed free air), I don't see why the relatively small number of heli-ski flights should be banned. Of course DG's wish for the use of only non-polluting methods for access is admirable but the rich will always find ways to minimise personal exertion while maximising pleasure. And similarly can afford to fight any attempts to restrict their 'freedoms'.
One thing's for sure - I'll never do it.
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David Goldsmith, Raising awareness is an admirable aim and I wholly support your efforts and views in this respect. I share kuwait_ian's scepticism though, most people with any real influence are followers of Mammon - nothing changes. Still I disagree with k.i. in that I believe it's worth fighting for even the smallest of victories.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Best of luck to you both.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
The French ban on heli-skiing began decades ago, but sadly there is no European-wide law against it.
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And what's the betting that if it was the other way round and the EC had moved first, the perverse French would have ignored it.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not against restrictions on heliskiing (for example not permitted in designated National Parks or whatever) but I think you are taking on a mammoth task going for a total ban.
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| And what's the betting that if it was the other way round and the EC had moved first, the perverse French would have ignored it. |
kuwait_ian, Not so sure about that... if we were to check out which EU nation was more often than not in a minority of one on European-level issues, somehow I don't think it will be France.... C'mon, I know we're talking about France here, but just for once, credit where credit's due!! 
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| The vast majority of skiers will never do it, because thankfully it's so horrendously expensive anyway. |
Not too horrendously expensive, for one day as a one-off. Given present exchange rates, one can have a good day's heli-skiing in Canada for less than £300, including guides and equipment. If you think about the total cost of being in Canada for 10 days - 2 weeks, that is not too bad.
I booked to do it for a day as a once-in-a-lifetime experience last season. Then broke a fibula 2 days before I was due to fly 
At least I'd had the dream. Given the limited amount of heliskiing that goes on, I can see little harm in it, provided it is thoughtfully operated.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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which EU nation was more often than not in a minority of one on European-level issues
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Well OK PG, yes the UK is often dead against much European centralised control and legislation but I think generally does a better job of complying with it after it has been passed. We Brits are a law-abiding lot by and large. From what I read in the papers (and I don't believe it all...), the French have a very well earned reputation for simply ignoring what doesn't suit them in Euro Law. And they and the Germans are in fundamental non-compliance with Eurozone rules on borrowing and GDP.
There - I feel better now. And yes it's off topic. Apologies.
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Given the limited amount of heliskiing that goes on, I can see little harm in it, provided it is thoughtfully operated.
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Agreed Nick. The buses taking most of us to the resorts and the trucks delivering our food and bev are the most polluting things in the area by far as regards air pollution. A chopper's engine burns an additive free fuel very efficiently and cleanly but will do it's bit for global warming, I concede. Noise pollution at the take off point might well affect nearby humans but I wonder if a hibernating creature under metres of snow is even conscious of a chopper landing nearby ? But this is a bit like do fish feel pain - how would we know ?
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The Austrians seem to have largely stopped the choppers. Hopefully the Swiss government will now see the logic in banning them, since their environmental record is generally very good.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't speak for DG, but I see the likes of heli-skiing as symbolic of the trend towards extravagance and waste in our throwaway society. The direct environmental impact may be minimal, but it is only part of the equation. We've forgotten the meaning of simplicity and moderation, and I have serious doubts that this blind charge towards satisfying the most ludicrous of consumer "needs" will be sustainable for very much longer.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| Noise pollution at the take off point might well affect nearby humans but I wonder if a hibernating creature under metres of snow is even conscious of a chopper landing nearby ? But this is a bit like do fish feel pain - how would we know ? |
By testing and measuring I presume? There has been research in Austria that did come to the firm conclusion that hibernating animals are disturbed by it. You could probably find it if you searched around.
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You know it makes sense.
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PG,
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| .... symbolic of the trend towards extravagance and waste in our throwaway society. |
Others could say the same about skiers as a whole - expensive holidays, polluting trasport, latest tecnology skis meaning earlier versions are scrapped, expensive mountain reataurants in a beautiful enviornment...... etc.
I think a stronger case coud be made for banning skiing as a whole, rather than just meerly heliskiing - even though I am very much on the side of skiing continuing.
I feel we need to be a bit careful about how skiers, who enjoy some elements of our activity, criticise those who enjoy others.
PS Happy Easter to everybody 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nick Zotov, phew, that's me off the hook then (Ive yet to go on a skiing 'holiday', catch the eco-friendly funicular up to Les Arcs, prefer to ski through lunchtime, and haven't bought a new pair of skis for years)
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Poster: A snowHead
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PG, Um.
How eco friendly is that, compared with no downhill skiing whatsoever in Les Arcs - or anywhere.
Just think of it from an environment viewpoint. No skiers with polluting transport to Bourg St Maurice, no more blowing of mountainsides for new pistes (go and look at the movie in the museum at Flaine, if they still run it, showing the resort being created). No more problems caused by skiers concerning sewage and waste disposal, no more artificial snow making. No more ski rental shops replacing their entire stock each year. And no need to disturb the mountain to build the funicular.
Gosh! The good news just goes on and on 
Mind you, a bit rough on those of us who like skiing, and the local economy.
So, I wonder if we should single out one particular grouip of skiers for adverse attention, if we do not think the damage they do to the envioroment is particulalry significant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As ever, it's a matter of where you draw the line. Otherwise we might as well shrug our shoulders and say we're already damaging the environment to an extent, so what the hell, let's go the whole hog....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The high level pollution caused by air travel to the country that the ski resort is in, is far more damaging to the environment than any of the other methods of pollution that occur whilst we are there.
I agree with Mr Goldsmiths sentiments on heliskiing, and I suspect that to have reached the top of an untracked powder field under your own steam, and then ski down through it, probably makes for a far more satisfying day. My understanding, gained from people I know who do it, is that the "skin graft", rather than being an onerous task, is as enjoyable a part of the whole experience as the ride back down.
I wonder if there is truly a need for heliskiing, with a bit of luck, and a decent guide, usually you can find some untracked powder pretty much throughout the season, within the lift served areas (although usually out of bounds) it just takes a little hard work. Helisking just seems to be a way of paying to avoid having to go looking.
Having said all that, although I am probably against heliskiing in principle, I'm not sure that my resolve would hold quite so strong, if given the opportunity to ski untracked powder fields all day. I nearly did it last time that I was in Canada, the only thing that stopped me at the last minute was the thought that for the same cost, I could have an extra weeks skiing in a catered chalet in Europe.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I also know a guy who once told me heli-skiing is the best thing he had found. To be fair I enjoy watching Warren Miller's videos and films on extreme skiing which were invariably done with a chopper. I suppose it is a matter of scale only. We criticise heli-skiing because we live in dense populated areas and cannot afford to have it environmentally. However why should we be upset if it is done in the wilderness or unpopulated areas of Canada?
Arabs got oil and their petrol is only 1/5 to 1/6 of what we have to pay in EU. They can afford to run cars with big engines. Should we criticise them using up the fossil fuel which they have plenty but most of us haven't got but still consume it daily.
Isn't skiing environmentally friendly as we only play with the snow and leave the mountains alone in the summer? If the mountains can ever be enjoyed by human being then skiing is probably the best way we can do it. So why should Heli-skiing be different if a country got space for it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| saikee wrote: |
I also know a guy who once told me heli-skiing is the best thing he had found. To be fair I enjoy watching Warren Miller's videos and films on extreme skiing which were invariably done with a chopper. I suppose it is a matter of scale only. We criticise heli-skiing because we live in dense populated areas and cannot afford to have it environmentally. However why should we be upset if it is done in the wilderness or unpopulated areas of Canada?
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Because, as mentioned several times already, the environmental impact is not confined to exhaust fumes and manifestly this impact is increased not decreased in wilderness areas.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've been heliskiing twice, once in Switzerland and once in Italy. I find the ride very exciting and were taken on both occassions to spots where you couldn't reasonably walk to.
If there was evidence that heli skiing was causing significant problems to wild life, I would support a ban. However, in my mind, the very small amount of heli skiing is unlikely to be a problem, when compared to that caused by skiing as a whole.
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One point in the skiing in general vs heliskiing argument is that ski resorts are confined to a set area determined by the extent of the lifts. Control can be kept on these so skiers can be "corrralled" into areas and out of others. Heli-skiing allows a virtually unlimited spread of skiing.
Where this leaves ski-trekking I'm not sure, but there could be an argument of limitation through having to travel under your own steam - but I don't know how valid that is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Why is the protection limited to such small areas of wilderness? Shouldn't it include loud music and smoking? How about lighting up the mountains at night? Can anyone really claim that ski lifts and crowded pistes are friendly to the environment? Perhaps we need to take the whole holiday business an ship the lot of them off to Mars.
We get used to a certain level of pollution and believe it is the correct level, then we make a huge fuss when it goes up by a small fraction, especially if it is in our back yard. I for one would be quite happy never to see another helicopter or ski lift, it wouldn't stop me skiing. I wonder how many of the protesters would be willing to swap their cars for bicycles.
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Best to ask how many of them have cars, first.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have a great admiration of the Scandinavian love of the cross country skiing. They carry the basic need and walk up or down the mountains. That to me is totally environmentally friendly, although some of so-called friends of the XXXXX may still say it has an undesirable impact to the environment for simply being there.
Only downhill skiing requires lifts and comes in big crowds with big problems on the waste, drains, rubbish and anything left behind. Having said that the number of people per square metre in the mountain is negligible. Most of us are isolated from the mountain soil by a layer of removable snow. We go there to be with the nature, scenery, gravity and exercise on average of only a couple of weeks at the most in a year. Any impact on the environment is the direct result of meeting our needs with food, water, transport etc which will have to be provided regardless unless we all disappear from the face of the earth. I therefore find it difficult to believe skiing can be on the hit list of the environment people.
I take pride in trying to learn cross country skiing first. But having passed the age of 50 I found it tough going. I now polute the earth by requiring mechanical means to transport my body to the top of the mountain. Next time I am on a ski slope again I will think twice before breaking wind.
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