 Poster: A snowHead
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Bought a Rollei 4s action cam last Christmas for about £70. Came with waterproof housing (keeps it dry and condensation-free in the snow) a couple of brackets and a remote control that clips onto jacket or glove. Good toy and quality image options inc slomo at 720 pix and limited digital zoom to minimise the fisheye effect if required. Also a laser option to help you aim and know that you're shooting when in helmet cam mode. Go for it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For the price the s4000 look pretty impressive, although after sitting through the various TechMoan reviews (which are really good) there are a few niggles. However, things just got a little more complicated in that I have just received a batch of John Lewis vouchers as a reward for outstanding project work and am tempted to spend them on a higher spec GoPro instead (unfortunately I can't buy a s4000 with the vouchers). I have discounted the basic GoPro because it looks like there is just too much scope for permanently killing it with a fall but John Lewis have both the 3+ Silver and 4 Silver. Is the 4 really worth an extra 80 pounds for a toy that is only likely to be used for 1 week of skiing per year and perhaps some dog walking footage.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 7-01-15 14:20; edited 3 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My brand new hero 4 black has packed up after less than 2 weeks!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Is the 4 really worth an extra 80 pounds for a toy that is only likely to be used for 1 week of skiing per year and perhaps some dog walking footage.
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IMHO - Yes.
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My brand new hero 4 black has packed up after less than 2 weeks!
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What happened to it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ansta1 wrote: |
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Is the 4 really worth an extra 80 pounds for a toy that is only likely to be used for 1 week of skiing per year and perhaps some dog walking footage.
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IMHO - Yes.
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My brand new hero 4 black has packed up after less than 2 weeks!
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What happened to it? |
Would only charge for about 5 minutes then wouldn`t charge at all. Now it`s just dead.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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how are you charging it?
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| Posidrive wrote: |
| For the price the s4000 look pretty impressive, although after sitting through the various TechMoan reviews (which) are really good) there are a few niggles. Howver, things just got a little more complicated in that I have just received a batch of John Lewis vouchers as a reward for outstanding project work and am tempted to spend them on a higher spec GoPro instead (unformutately I can't buy an s4000 with the vouchers). I have discounted the basic GoPro because it looks like there is just too much scope for permanently killing it with a fall but John Lewis have both the 3+ Silver and 4 Silver. Is the 4 really worth an extra 80 pounds for a toy that is only likely to be used for 1 week of skiing per year and perhaps some dog walking footage. |
just a thought but a couple of friends have the go pro and looking at the reviews online of the sj4000 I would keep my vouchers and spend the £60 on the cheaper camera with a few extra batteries... for a weeks skiing personally i cant really see the difference in pic quality for a family holiday and the sjcam looks really user friendly... That's what I am doing just incase I break it also haha
Maybe buy a new ipad or tablet with your vouchers for editing all your new ski videos 
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If you are looking at youtube quality you won't see much (if any) difference. If you are looking at the footage in full quality there is a difference.
I am not saying the sj4000 is rubbish, far from it. But take the 1080p/60fps as an example, it's not true 60fps it's double framed 30fps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have the SJ4000 and I must admit for the money its really good - would not spend £200+ on a camera that I would only use a few times a year
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| ansta1 wrote: |
If you are looking at youtube quality you won't see much (if any) difference. If you are looking at the footage in full quality there is a difference.
I am not saying the sj4000 is rubbish, far from it. But take the 1080p/60fps as an example, it's not true 60fps it's double framed 30fps. |
I am not really up on frame rates and pic quality that much too be honest more of just how it looks really... I am sure the Go Pro is a better camera. I wouldn't dispute that for a second. These copy's and cheaper rip off versions are always lacking somewhat however in this instance for the difference in price I would be happy to sacrifice the finer end of picture quality as its just for a bit of fun and not professional or serious use but then that's just me of course...
I will be buying one soon so will post a vid or two once I have been skiing see what the outcome is.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have the Sony Action Cam and have been very impressed
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ansta1 wrote: |
| how are you charging it? |
It`s been returned to the shop. Getting a replacement sent out in a few days when they have stock.
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| r1chard wrote: |
| I got the SJ4000 WiFi (not the fake) 3 spare batteries and a charger all for about £75, the SD card was extra. If you have a smart phone the Wifi version connects to your phone and you can use your phone as the view finder. As long as it works ok, it seems like a great deal, I still take the occasional tumble so really didn't want £ 00's of camera, as there is a chance i'll break it... |
Where did you get it from? Looked at Amazon and many suppliers all with seemingly slightly different offerings; batteries, etc..
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You know it makes sense.
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Each to their own. I have a 4 black jobbie and I *know* it's the best, no need to worry about it really. The video output is a natural progression in quality from previous GoPros I've used (the 1 & 2). I bought it and the memory in the US so it's not quite what you'd pay in Treasure Island. I've had no trouble with this one, although I had some hassle a few years back with a 2: I just mailed it back to California and they mailed me two back (to the UK). Great customer service.
You can whine about the sample home video which I'll force you to watch later. It's the same as other video only I've more pixels so it will be slightly better framed, slightly sharper, nothing to write home about.
The Sony looks like an interesting smaller alternative and promises good quality too.
I'm sure you can get reasonable quality for less. It depends what's important to you. There's certainly no point in buying more stuff than you need. If you don't need (and don't want to edit) 4k protune then you don't want the big dog.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@philwig, best quality video? Best ease of use? Best styling? Best battery life? Etc etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Where did you get it from? Looked at Amazon and many suppliers all with seemingly slightly different offerings; batteries, etc..
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I got mine from DX.com, took a while for delivery but it seemed to be the cheapest about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| a.j. wrote: |
| @philwig, best quality video? Best ease of use? Best styling? Best battery life? Etc etc. |
Sorry I wasn't clear enough for you: best video quality. It's implied in my second sentence.
If you care about styling then you'd probably be best not to use these at all - they do require some adjustment to riding technique.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I'm going off the unicorn look and may look at one of the bullet style cameras that you mount on the side of the helmet. Do these make your head feel noticably unbalanced? The Sony HDR-AS100VR looks cool and I like the idea of mounting it the goggles strap so it always loooks wherever you look.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Polaroid XS100 has done me very well £112.95 when I bought it, entire unit is waterproof so no ugly cases.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Posidrive wrote: |
| ... bullet style cameras that you mount on the side of the helmet. Do these make your head feel noticably unbalanced? |
No. I ride my bike every day with one of those running (saves chasing witnesses when you crash into me). You don't notice them. The new tiny Sony looks very cute - a more appealing form factor than the GoPro in my view.
Thanks for the heads up on the GoPro firmware update, although none of that looks hugely interesting feature-wise to me personall.y
Here's a reduced-size (for Facebook) GoPro 4 frame grab from some stuff I was editing last night. The quality of the output from this machine is significantly ahead of the 1080p GoPro2.
[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10897841_10204871953110446_6221916131181777104_n.jpg?oh=0de5f8a02949ebaaad6fa0ffc277d02f&oe=5522AA23&__gda__=1429570166_f8f59775850cb7d18c75fedfa7d3070c[/img]
link
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@philwig, Nice shot, have you edited out the camera?
I'm liking the idea of in camera 'time-lapse' and the increased frame rates that 240fps is going to make for some super smooth slow mo if it is a genuine 240fps and not just frame doubling. Some questions as to how they are doing the 'auto rotation' as nobody, including those in the beta test group, had any idea that there was an orientation sensor. Know they've cracked 2.7k 60fps that is going to be a widely used format. Plus heres hoping they iron out some of the annoying, if work aroundable, little bugs in the system.
I'm hoping it's released in early feb so I can have a play on our Family ski trip at half term.
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@philwig, how was that shot taken??
No firmware updates for the 3 in the offing??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ansta1, Yes, that's a crop from the RHS of the frame (hence the distortion, which I like in this case) and I cloned the pole out in Photoshop plus shrank it to FB size.
"Time Lapse" I already do via Premiere Pro (or the GoPro app); they are making it easier is all, I think. More frame rates will help, although I'm still a pixel junkie hence I've stuck to 4k so far.
I would say that if you aren't using a decent PC then you may well want to avoid the 4k stuff. Standard or old kit probably won't hack it very well; my machine wakes up when I feed it with this.
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@kitenski, not likely I'm afraid but we can hope.
@philwig, re "Time-Lapse" yes just making it out of the box, I beleive what they will do is effectively create a video with a really slow frame rate (not sure what the options will be, but expect 10s, 30s, 1min, 5min). Hopefully they will offer it with maximum picture quality.
What would be really good, but unlikely, for those that do timelapses stuff regularly would be the ability to do an auto timelapes in camera but also record full quality jpegs at the same time. The auto then effectively becomes a low quality version and you could if happy then do a full proper job using the equivalent jpegs.
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using a very decent PC then you may well want to avoid the 4k stuff
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FIFY
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski, It's a frame grab from a video shot from a Delkin Kaboom (4 of 5 sections used), shot from a GoPro 4 plus in 4k SuperView mode. I exported the 4k frame from Premiere Pro (one click), then edited it (cropped, cloned the pole out, shrank it, then selectively sharpened it: several clicks). I'm looking forward to mucking around with that footage - you can see there are plenty of pixels so I can easily pan and zoom inside the frame, if I'm targeting HD output for example.
3 Firmware updates... don't know, although they do support their old stuff, so for example they added ProTune to the 2 after they released it with the 3, so it's possible....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@philwig, cheers, Premiere Pro is my tool of choice, found the cheaper programs couldn't cope with the big files....just got myself a GoPro 3+ after moving off Contour
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@kitenski, I also used Contour (professionally) years ago. I was much more impressed with GoPro. I suspect you're right that less serious editing programs may struggle. I think that the GoPro app is probably needed for that reason, and I think it will do a basic job pretty well.
I already have/ know Premiere Pro (5.5, which came at a very reasonable cost). That chews the big footage just fine, although as above, I would say that unless you have "very decent" hardware then you're not going to want to muck with 4k much at this point.
I think GoPro's marketing strategy is good: they retain dominance of the professional market with the 4 black; they have the mid-range machine for wealthy consumers who like flashy toys but don't own serious compute power; and the low-end model competes with the clones.
I think Sony is interesting too, although their strategy is harder to discern. They have great video credentials and are coming up fast in photography, but they've shied away from challenging GoPro on the top end POV stuff. Not sure why that is.
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You know it makes sense.
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@philwig, cheers, I went for a Silver+ 3 as no need for 4K, my PC can handle really top end stuff but I don't think for home iPad viewing on youtube that 4k would be any noticeably better than 1080p!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@kitenski, as philwig has said one of the major benefits with 4k is you can crop, pan, zoom and still output at full 1080p.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ansta1, too feckin late 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| philwig wrote: |
@kitenski, I also used Contour (professionally) years ago. I was much more impressed with GoPro. I suspect you're right that less serious editing programs may struggle. I think that the GoPro app is probably needed for that reason, and I think it will do a basic job pretty well.
I already have/ know Premiere Pro (5.5, which came at a very reasonable cost). That chews the big footage just fine, although as above, I would say that unless you have "very decent" hardware then you're not going to want to muck with 4k much at this point.
I think GoPro's marketing strategy is good: they retain dominance of the professional market with the 4 black; they have the mid-range machine for wealthy consumers who like flashy toys but don't own serious compute power; and the low-end model competes with the clones.
I think Sony is interesting too, although their strategy is harder to discern. They have great video credentials and are coming up fast in photography, but they've shied away from challenging GoPro on the top end POV stuff. Not sure why that is. |
Wee question(s) for you Philwig. I`ve got a Macbook Pro that can`t handle 4k clips from the GoPro Hero4 Black but we`ve also got a newer iMac in the house that can. Should i shoot in 4k and edit on the iMac and/or downsize the clips to use on the macbook? Or should i just shoot film in 1080? Is it easy to downsize the clips?
I hardly ever use the iMac. I`ve also got Premier Pro on both machines.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Deedee, I'm not sure. Back in ancient days people would work with "proxy files" - smaller versions of the real thing - and then replace them with the real files when it comes to rendering the actual output. You could look at doing that, perhaps. It would be hard work though - you would not be able to see precisely what you were editing, when cropping, I think. My personal view is that if you're going to muck with 4k then you don't want to skimp on the compute power. If I was using low powered machines then I'd likely stick to 1080p. Downsizing the video in GoPro Studio is probably pretty easy and will be mostly automatic, so that bit's easy.
You could... shoot in 4k and convert/ edit/ publish in 1080p. Then when you eventually get more powerful machines you can come back and re-cut the stuff if you feel so inclined.
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I just spent a bit of time mucking around with Windows 10 and a Radeon 295x2 at 4k.... I think that's the fastest graphics out there today (using a Haswell-e processor, water cooling etc). The good news is that Windows 10 is what Windows 8 should have been, but it also looks great in 4k out of the box. Coming to retail in late spring I think.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@philwig, Do you think the new Sony will compete with the high end GoPro? http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/actioncam/fdr-x1000v-body-kit/specifications.
No 2.7k but matches the 4k, 1080p120 and has 720p240. With image stabilisation on top they may be onto a winner. Admittedly odd that they don't have 2.7k but my guess is they're thinking that 1080p will be standard until the jump to 4k is made en masse so 1440p will be bypassed?
Image stabilisation and the form factor (I really don't like the face on go pro idea) makes it a better proposition for me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I dont. It's the wrong format for a wearable action camera and in camera stabilisation isn't the way to go imv.
Sony just play in the imaging market. They make their real money from music and insurance.
Right now gopro have the market pretty much sown up selling 10 cameras to every one that the competitors do.
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@ansta1, wrong format as in bullet style rather than face on? I know GoPro are doing well enough (!) using their face on format but I can't see the appeal for that myself, I just don't see any advantages over bullet style?
What don't you like about in camera image stabilisation? Just that in can be done better in post production? Seems a good option to add for the more regular user even if this is a more premium product.
The other thing I forgot to mention is the GPS and the overlays you can add on with it, another nice added feature.
I'm actually hoping that Garmin do a refresh of their Virb Elite with 1080p120. That'd jump to the top of my list and I may well get the current version at £175 as things stand.
All genuine questions above, just in case the tone doesn't come across nicely in text!
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@malk, Dunno, I was looking at the last gen Sony before GoPro announced the 4k version (I know the 3+ had some 4k, but not at usable frame rates). I liked the look of that. I have a Sony A7r with Zeiss glass which is a very serious play in the imaging market, in my view. I'm a member of CPS and have bags of Cannon gear, but I think the days of the big two dominating the stills market are numbered.
I'd not seen those new specifications, but I think that does look like a competitor. I too dislike the GoPro form factor, and find them over engineered for snowboarding. So yeah, I hope that is competition - good for everyone.
Personally I'm not too interested in GPS - my phone does that. Similarly built-in screens, it's just more weight and power consumption. Whatever people buy, they'll be obsolete in a few months, but still will work perfectly. The joys of consumer technology.
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@malk, i don't have any personal issues with the other form factors but i do think that the gopro form factor and it's mount options has the widest range of uses, helmet, chest, handheld, gimbal plus a load of other options.
The bullet cams can't easily be chest mounted and their form factor cause issues with low cost brushless gimbal setups.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| philwig wrote: |
| @malk, I have a Sony A7r with Zeiss glass . |
I was debating a Sony A7 but i`m not totally convinced. Used to use a 7D but it was just too bulky for carrying up hills (where i take 99% of my photos) so i sold it. Also thinking about a Fuji X-T1 or a Lumix GX7.
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My other gear is Canon 1 series plus a couple of 5Ds... it's all about twice the size of the Sony. Except for the sensor, where the Sony's is of course bigger. The catch is that the Sony isn't a sports camera - the AF isn't really quick enough, and the EVF is excellent, but not quick enough for sports shooting either (it jumps when you rapid fire the camera). I would guess that any mirror-less camera will probably have the same characteristics, for now.
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FAQ
