 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Tis been very quiet in here of later. Hopefully this a question many of you will have comments on. Have recently purchased Rome Solution 163 with Salomon SPX44 bindings. The board is the perfect size for me so no problem on that front (I am 180 cm, minus 1 cm). However, does have anyone have any ideas on what the perfect stance is? I realise this is a very subjective question but any tips would be handy. I ride goofy and riding is pretty much restricted to pisted runs although I aim to spend more time in the park and perhaps ride out with a guide for some off-pisting. Don't think I'm ready to go duck yet, but am willing to listen to suggestions. I have a tool to take out with me and can play around whilst out and about  but would much prefer not to have to fart around with bindings on-piste.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Quack........quack............makes riding fackie easier i'm sure, but not sure how much else. Some people just can't do it, it's down to your own biomechanics as to what is comfortable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dan,
I ride fakie comfortable enough but don't spend enough time to warrant going 'quack'. I've heard reports that it's not so good on the knees although what's good enough for Shaun White should be good enough for me (sans hair colourant!). 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What I have heard from someone that I believe to know about these things is that it is bad for your knee to have your back foot further than -9, especially if you have a large angle on the front foot.
If you change your mindset and instead think that 'riding with duck stance will encourage you to ride switch more often' then you'll probably improve as a snowboarder. Mind you if you spend enough time switch then it isn't a good idea to have more than +9 on your front foot as it becomes your back foot (this is how I ride). You might be able to get away with +12 -12 (or maybe +12 -9) any larger angle than that I would personally advise against... Bit of a chicken and egg argument going on relating to matching the stance to the style of riding, it really depends how much you want to improve...
My advice would be to set your bindings to match how you ideally want to ride and get used to it like that, rather than saying this is how I ride now so my bindings should be set like this. Mind you some people have no particular drive to learn switch so my stance would be pointless for them. (I'd say +15 -6 would be ok for an occasional switch rider, but then riding 'switch' is more difficult than 'natural' even with full duck stance, so if you have this stance expect to find it even more challenging)
If I know I'm spending the majority of the day off piste then occasionally I move my bindings further back on the board and have +15 and 0 as my angles. Not essential but if the powder is really good it does add to the floaty enjoyment.
Good luck and enjoy. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The angle difference between your feet is totally dependant on how your knees face when in a boarding stance - everyone is different. With that being said, the basic "stance" you use depends on the kind of riding you do:
- Mostly freestyle: even duck (i.e. 9/-9, 12/-12, etc.) and a wide stance
- All-around: duck with higher front foot (i.e. 15/-9) and a normal width stance
- Mostly freeride: forward (i.e. 25/10) and a normal width, though some will say that they prefer duck even for freeride (personally I just find duck more comfortable/natural for all types of riding, but I'm also more used to duck)
Supposedly people with duck stances get more knee injuries, but people with duck stances also ride more park, and the park is where you blow you knees, not freeriding. The scientific evidence to support theories like "more than -9 on your back foot = way worse on knees" is dubious at best. Experiment and ride whatever stance feels most comfortable/natural. If you are forcing your knees into some pre-determined forward stance this is not going to be too good for them either!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good read, but somewhat old info. It states that duck stances are uncommon, with forward stances being the most common, and I can tell you that at least in Canada this is NOT the case. Duck is by far the most common, for pros and amatures alike. Also, many of the pros listed as having forward stances have since changed to a duck stance.
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my nephew, a very athletic lad (ex junior squash champion) started snowboarding with beginner lessons and just couldn't get it. He couldn't work out which foot he wanted forward, and neither felt right. Then someone strapped him on duck, and he took off with no more problems. It may be relevant that he used to chuck his squash racket from hand to hand and hit the ball equally well with left and right. Mixed dominance? Anyway, for some people, probably a minority, that seems to be the most natural way to ride. The concept of "switch" doesn't make sense to him. I like the idea that whatever feels right is probably best for you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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saxabar, Go with whatever stance gives you the most vertical flexibility at the knees and hips in a drop to squat (ie. for a grab) and rise to standing This should not cause ANY pain or lateral forces in the joins. Once you find your natural foot ange you can play about with it from there.
Just stand on the floor in bare feet and do a squat then rise without moving your feet, that's your natural angle. (repeat 1,000x to get your strength up  )
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ponder, Do you not think that riding duck should really mirror how you would stand naturally to give you the best stability and strength in your stance? Not many people have a natural angle of their feet as larger than +9 -9. If you are facing forwards with your head all the time it seems fairly obvious to me that, if your back knee has a strong negative angle, it will not be at it's strongest and as a result be more prone to injury. In the same way that a 0 0 angle would compromise strength.
What is the argument against this?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| mista wrote: |
| ponder, Not many people have a natural angle of their feet as larger than +9 -9. |
That depends on:
a: size of your beer sack
b: size of your nut sack
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Damn squirrels... everywhere
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mista, when your feet are together, you naturally stand at around 0/0 probably. But when you spread your feet apart, your toes/knees naturally start to point outwards. The more you widen your stance, the more the angles increase. I ride a very extreme 21/-15 because it feels easily the most natural for me (weird knees). If I ride with less difference between my feet I can feel them pushing into the outsides of my boots, trying to rotate themselves to a larger angle.
As for the twisting argument, when riding duck properly your body should NOT be twisted - your shoulders should stay basically in line with your board. Only your head twists, as though you were looking over your shoulder, and I fail to see how this really effects your knees. Talking about unnatural positions, think about a forward stance. When you really lay into turns, you have to angulate by pinching your ribs to your hips, which seems alot less natural than flexing at the knees and ankles. Also, a duck stance lets you bend your knees far deeper and more easily, which I would think would help prevent knee injuries.
I have experimented alot with stances, and like the feel of duck better for all kinds of riding, but admitedly that's just me. Everyone is different, so your stance should be chosen based on what feels most "right."
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You know it makes sense.
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| ponder wrote: |
mista, when your feet are together, you naturally stand at around 0/0 probably. But when you spread your feet apart, your toes/knees naturally start to point outwards. The more you widen your stance, the more the angles increase. I ride a very extreme 21/-15 because it feels easily the most natural for me (weird knees). If I ride with less difference between my feet I can feel them pushing into the outsides of my boots, trying to rotate themselves to a larger angle.
As for the twisting argument, when riding duck properly your body should NOT be twisted - your shoulders should stay basically in line with your board. Only your head twists, as though you were looking over your shoulder, and I fail to see how this really effects your knees. Talking about unnatural positions, think about a forward stance. When you really lay into turns, you have to angulate by pinching your ribs to your hips, which seems alot less natural than flexing at the knees and ankles. Also, a duck stance lets you bend your knees far deeper and more easily, which I would think would help prevent knee injuries.
I have experimented alot with stances, and like the feel of duck better for all kinds of riding, but admitedly that's just me. Everyone is different, so your stance should be chosen based on what feels most "right." |
I'm a fairly average freerider and I bought my first board and bindings last year. The helpful chappie in TSA suggested that moving towards a duck stance would be a natural progression as I got more used to the new board, and in some respects he was right - I kept adjusting the baseplates until I am now riding 18/-6 and find it very comfortable plus I feel I have much more control over the board.
Also, and this may just be IMHO, but standing duck stance feels much more 'normal' than turned slightly to the front which to me seems to put a bit more pressure on my rear knee (I ride goofy). Anyway, as mista says, it's all down to whatever you feel more comfortable with....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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saxabar, Looking back at some old vids and pics, most of them are riding in hard boots on fairly narrow boards (like mono-skis and today's carving boards) I think the toes forward school is mostly legacy and still the best for very fast hard or xtreme carving. But for jibbing around the terrain anything that makes you comfortable, in control and safe has got to be the way to go. Get a comfortable stance and stick with it for a good two or three weeks, get your skills and confidence up and then play with settings when you've got a benchmark to test any change against.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lots of great comments here, I think it is case of of suck it and see. Given that I want to a ride a lot more switch to aid in freestyling I think I'll give the duck stance a go as it feels quite natural anyway. Probably a case of the blindingly obvious but I'll just change stance as I go along. It's been interesting to note that not everyone rides switch, I've always seen this is a vital part of any boaders 'repertoire'. At the end of the day we are (now) rising boards which are symmetrical.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saxabar, try riding switch on a Burton Fish 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Add on hard boots and an alpine stance for even more fun!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ponder, Wearing Lycra
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'll leave the ol' skool to those who know. I stand on the side of progress! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ponder, I said 'with head facing forwards' nothing about twisting. Still, although the correct technique is not to twist it does abviously happen occasionally. I think we agree to a large degree and like I say I do ride 'duck'. You say yourself that you have weird knees, Charlie Chaplin would have probably ridden around +28 -32 or something... In general I reckon people's natural strongest and most comfortabe stance to be around +9 -9. I have pretty normal legs/knees and if I try and stand comfortably with my feet binding width apart then I reckon that's about the angle I have. Obviously different people are built differently so may find the angles different.
Anyway I leave for Val D'Isere for the season today.
Have fun everyone!
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Duck. Been riding that way for a few years now, and I'm more of a freerider too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Masque wrote: |
| mista wrote: |
| ponder, Not many people have a natural angle of their feet as larger than +9 -9. |
That depends on:
a: size of your beer sack
b: size of your nut sack
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And the size of your feet! (being 'c') I've heard that this is relative! I have calculated an equation?
♂: c √ a − b ∕ 49 = your perfect stance
And for the girls given that:
x: Cup size
y: Jeans size
♀: x √ y + 21 = girls don't care as long as they look good
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Honda Kitty, buy a proper sports bra! Unfettered bouncers are yet another piste hazzard we don't need. And I do have some idea of the problem by boarding back to Valandry with a five litre wine tub in my pack and one clutched in my arms . . . serious change of balance point and bloody hard work 
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FAQ
The more top heavy you are wider the area you need to balance!! 
